fuel sender/sensor for 1998 EV?

[Mwether]

I'm kicking tires (virtually) on a '98 EV that the seller says needs a fuel sender.

Pretty sure it's part #03103000..?

If that number is correct, it seems to be out of production and no longer available (MG, S-D, and Harpers don't have it.) Are there places/breakers you'd recommend to look for a used one?

I think there's a thread here somewhere about replacing thermistors on them? I could try that route if I'm SOL on finding a working one.

[pehayes]

Should be plenty of damaged ones out in the breaker environment.  The problem comes from a bad Guzzi design.  There are two electrical cables under the tank in that area.  A 12V cable runs the on/off electric petcock.  A 5V cable runs the fuel level data to the computer to control the dash low fuel light.  Guzzi foolishly used identical connectors on both cables and it is quite easy to cross them.  Running 12V into the normally 5V fuel sensor fries some component.  Yes, there are red bands on one pair of cables to keep you oriented but those are small, dirty, out of the way.  If you were ignorant of the issue you could easily cause the damage.

IIRC, Wayne has repaired one. Perhaps he will chime in regarding the parts and procedure.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[John A]

Just put a manual valve on.

[Mwether]

Should be plenty of damaged ones out in the breaker environment.  The problem comes from a bad Guzzi design.  There are two electrical cables under the tank in that area.  A 12V cable runs the on/off electric petcock.  A 5V cable runs the fuel level data to the computer to control the dash low fuel light.  Guzzi foolishly used identical connectors on both cables and it is quite easy to cross them.  Running 12V into the normally 5V fuel sensor fries some component.  Yes, there are red bands on one pair of cables to keep you oriented but those are small, dirty, out of the way.  If you were ignorant of the issue you could easily cause the damage.

IIRC, Wayne has repaired one. Perhaps he will chime in regarding the parts and procedure.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Very helpful, Patrick. Thank you!
Are there any specific breakers/salvage yards you'd recommend?

[Mwether]

Just put a manual valve on.

John, I'm not following here... Are you suggesting a manual petcock?

The unit I'm referring to is internal to the tank. It's the sensor that sends (hence sometimes called a sensor and sometimes called a sender) a signal to the low fuel light.

Then again, I can be pretty dense, so it could just be that I don't understand your suggestion! 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Mark at Moto Guzzi Classics did have one new-in-the-bag, but I bought that from him for a customer's Jackal. He might have a good used one, wouldn't hurt to check. 562-986-0070.

[Craig in Alabama]

Mwether,

John is suggesting that if you install a manual petcock, it will have a reserve function and you won't need the low fuel light on the dash.

Cheers!
Craig

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Mwether,

John is suggesting that if you install a manual petcock, it will have a reserve function and you won't need the low fuel light on the dash.

Cheers!
Craig

The manual petcock for the fuel injected bikes has no reserve function.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=379&products_id=39

[Craig in Alabama]

Sorry, I didn't realize that.
Other petcocks won't fit I suppose?

Thanks for the info!
Craig

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Sorry, I didn't realize that.
Other petcocks won't fit I suppose?

Thanks for the info!
Craig

Others may fit, but they may not flow adequately. The inlet and outlet on the one I linked to are quite large.

[Mwether]

Mark at Moto Guzzi Classics did have one new-in-the-bag, but I bought that from him for a customer's Jackal. He might have a good used one, wouldn't hurt to check. 562-986-0070.

Thanks for the lead and the link to the manual petcock, Charlie.

I'll see if I can find a used sender. If not, I'll go the #01105460 route!

[Frenchfrog]

If its an injected bike it won't have adequate fuel above 5000 rpm according to a chum of mine who is desperately looking for a solution on his EV.The sender's NLA and to make matters worse his trip meter is awol too.I think the bike was quite expensive too and he's getting really pissed off with it as we made an adapter for the V 11 type of sender but that didn't work out either.He put LED 's on all the dash board so here's one cause there but also the sender was leaking and he thinks that the thread form on the adapter was slightly wrong.
My hunch is that it will require another tap to be put in the tank but he was reluctant to do that ...any tips especially on the sender would be gratefully received but we are in France so the one stocked by Harpers simply would not be worth buying.

[Mwether]

Just put a manual valve on.

...John is suggesting that if you install a manual petcock...and you won't need the low fuel light on the dash.

John, thanks for the suggestion. And thanks for the clarification, Craig.

If I go this route, I'll really have to be diligent watching the trip meter.

Motorcyclists had to do that for MANY years; I'll just consider it another "retro" quality of the bike!

[Mwether]

If its an injected bike it won't have adequate fuel above 5000 rpm according to a chum of mine who is desperately looking for a solution on his EV....

Thanks for the post, FF.

Are you saying that the petcock idea won't work above 5000rpm?

[John A]

John, I'm not following here... Are you suggesting a manual petcock?

The unit I'm referring to is internal to the tank. It's the sensor that sends (hence sometimes called a sensor and sometimes called a sender) a signal to the low fuel light.

Then again, I can be pretty dense, so it could just be that I don't understand your suggestion! 

My mistake, I was thinking of petcock for some reason 

[pehayes]

Just remember to always check for the presence of red banding whenever you access the wiring under the tank.  Too stupid to remember which one has the red bands, but no matter.  Just match red to red and black to black.  Would have been so easy to use two differing connectors.  How many times has this board discussed just such electrical damage issues for that series of FI bikes?  The ugly issue resurfaces every time an new owner acquires an older bike and confronts the wiring first time.  DOH!

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Frenchfrog]

Thanks for the post, FF.

Are you saying that the petcock idea won't work above 5000rpm?

I cant be 100 % as it's my pal who says it's the cause of his Cali ev within fuel injection stuttering around those revs. and I've not witnessed it myself.But I have no reason to doubt him and I do think the manual petcock he tried has has a smaller bore than the original.
If we could find a big bore petcock that would thread onto the tank and with a reserve then that would solve his problem.
I looked at some of the after market petcocks available in the US and maybe some of those would work instead of the sender ?

[Frenchfrog]

Just remembered that Pingle was the name of the petcock makers I was looking at.Anyone tried one of those ?Other suppliers ?

[Frenchfrog]

And he just told me that attempting to put a tap on the 22 mm fitting would not work as it's too close to the cylinder head.

[John A]

https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=382
Here is a link to senders from MG cycle
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=39
This is a link to manual petcocks

[Frenchfrog]

Thanks for the links John A...the cali inj senders are NLA from what we have understood on the other side of the pond...and the tap has no reserve facility.
We spoke again and he's looking at fitting two taps and going on from there which seems to be the most practical way AFAIC unless the right parts get back into production.It's odd that they are NLA given how many of those bikes are around....

[Mwether]

If I'm right about the part number (03103000), nobody has them.

Harper's has a "pre-order" button, but when you hover over it, you get, "We will fulfill the order as soon as this item becomes available." Unless they have a line to a secret Guzzi elf workshop, I think it will become available 'round about never. https://harpermoto.com/products/1100-ev-fuel-level-sensor-03103000

Here's the link to the 2015 thread on thermistor replacement. It sounds like a semi-complicated solution:
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=80036.0

The salient bit reads in part,

I purchased a couple of the Panasonic ERTLG12N7s off a Chinese outfit DHGaate.com (they took over a month to arrive, came by ship I think) for about $15 each.
I fitted one to my buddies Triumph Tiger, it worked great.
Fitting it to the EV is a bit more work, you can't pull the existing sensor apart as the wires are potted after the fact so I made a new holder out of brass tubing. In hind sight I would have cut a couple of inches off the existing probe to access the wires then mounted the Panasonic to it.

EDITED TO ADD: The Panasonic ERTLG12N7 has also been discontinued. No info on a replacement.

[Mwether]

My mistake, I was thinking of petcock for some reason 

No worries! I think the suggestion has merit. 
 

[Frenchfrog]

there certainly does not seem to be a simple answer to this....

[michaell32]

Thanks for the post, FF.

Are you saying that the petcock idea won't work above 5000rpm?

My 2003 California EV came with a manual petcock from the previous owner and works fine all the way to redline.  His might just be an isolated case or another issue that's misdiagnosed.. 

[pehayes]

there certainly does not seem to be a simple answer to this....

The simple answer would be a $15 bicycle speedo computer with resettable trip meter.

On my Falcone I have a very simple GPS driven handlebar speedometer.  It has resettable trip.  No wires anywhere on the bike.  Just have to remember to keep it charged up.  Aborts in a tunnel, but how often do you ride that?  CYCPLUS is $22 at Walmart.  I suppose I could easily add a 5v wire to keep it charged.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Wireless-GPS-Bike-Computer-IPX6-Waterproof-Cycling-Speedometer-Bike-Accessories/2895325469





Patrick  Hayes
Fremont CA

[Frenchfrog]

Of course Patrick ! I did suggest that to him previously but maybe worth reminding him . Another plus would be making his speed readings more accurate too !!!!!

[Wayne Orwig]

I never did repair one. It is (roughly) a 1k ohm, maybe 1/2 watt, NTC thermistor. It has no coating, and more important, is sealed in a metal can, to protect it and likely make it flame resistant. You could open the can and put the new one inside. If you are lucky, it overheated and the solder simply melted. You might open the can and simply resolder it.

Start by measuring it with an ohmmeter. It should be roughly 1k ohm at room temperature.

An old style petcock with reserve is not a great idea. Each time the pump runs dry, it can overheat the motor, and the dry impeller wears. The pump may die pretty quickly if run dry a few times.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Mark @ Moto Guzzi Classics just got in a low miles '98 EV that he plans to part out. Best to call him: 562-986-0070.

[LowRyter]

I can't get a replacement for the low fuel light sensor either.  I just use the trip odometer.  I fill at 140 miles or so.  Those things have been out of stock for a long time.