Synthetic ceramic oil?

[Tom]

Yes.  Another oil thread.  Anyone use this stuff?  I also see ceramic synthetic oil addtive.   

[Dirk_S]

Abstract take on additives—don’t add them. That’s at least what I’ve learned from a couple experts like Lake Speed, Jr (Motor Oil Geek on YouTube - https://youtube.com/@themotoroilgeek?si=s8Is1evYC3TVN_t1 ) . Fuel additives good (generally), oil additives bad (generally)

[Perazzimx14]

Abstract take on additives—don’t add them. That’s at least what I’ve learned from a couple experts like Lake Speed, Jr (Motor Oil Geek on YouTube - https://youtube.com/@themotoroilgeek?si=s8Is1evYC3TVN_t1 ) . Fuel additives good (generally), oil additives bad (generally)

Agreed on the oil additives that they are not needed. Fuel additives are exceptionally good at one thing, lightening your wallet. Anything beyond that is speculative. I'm in the camp of additives are not needed in fuel or engine earl.

[Zenermaniac]

Thinking about what a ceramic really is I would be HIGHLY suspicious of anything labeled as a ceramic being put in my oil. Modern oils are good enough.

[pressureangle]

My first thought with any 'new' advancement in mature markets is 'Marketing hype'. You can call anything anything in marketing but a Rose by any other Name...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic

If I didn't have a chemical engineering license to consider, I might call ZDDP a ceramic and dare anyone to argue about it. (I don't mean I do, but someone who did might pass the argument off to marketing)

I choose oils by their performance in testing and anecdotal observations. For our old lumps, it's true that nearly any SAE oil is 'sufficient'. It's also true that SAE oils are not as good as they were 25 years ago because the EPA mandated a reduction in friction modifiers to extend the effective life of catalytic converters (and probably to keep old cars below 150k miles, but that's a different conspiracy theory)
At the end of the day, with decades of actually researching, reading, racing, and purchasing, I'm using Klotz V-twin 20w50 in all my bikes, that's the 1100 Sport MG, 1150GS BMW, Enfield Himalayan and the '74 H-D Aermacchi Sprint. The separate gearboxes and rear drives get Chevron Delo ESI 85w140. To note on the gear oil, the Chevron measured 15* F lower than Redline heavy shockproof in the 'Sport over the same roads.

For any of these, if I can't have the Klotz I just use Shell Rotella T6 synthetic, which meets the manufacturer's requirements on the Himalayan (the only new one) and certainly is everything the big motors need. Plus it's everywhere in North America.

[Dirk_S]

Forgot to mention, lower viscosity oils are mandated to carry a lower maximum amount of ZDDP than the higher viscosity oils. I considered adding a bit of ZDDP additive to my 10W60 after rebuilding the motor, but once I read Lake Speed’s test readings when he added a little ZDDP, and it actually did some significant damage to the journals and bearings, I just decided to stick with what the stock 10w60 as-is. But I’m far from being  super knowledgeable.

[guzziart]

Here's something else to chew on

[Rower30]

Like greases, know the application. Grease with moly is for plain bearings as it has plate shaped elements that "slide" between flat surfaces. Moly will damage and destroy needle and ball bearings. Exactly what is the friction medium in ceramic label oil? Until you know that you can't determine how to use it and where.

I've seen far too many bearings destroyed with moly. Moly has a place, but not everywhere. Same with oil and the effects on clutch plates and bearings. Just because the rod has plain bearings doesn't mean they are everywhere else. Knowing if an additive is better or worse depends on how the friction modifiers behave in your bearings.

[Perazzimx14]

Here's something else to chew on

Nothing wrong with SuperTech oils. As long as the specs on the back of the bottle meet or exceed the manufacturers requirements the brand or bottle color is irrelevant. The only reason I don't use SuperTech 20W-50 (regular not the V-twin buzzword stuff) in the Hexheads is I get Mobil-1 15W-50 for less money.

I use Supertech gear oil in the BMW's. You can pay more but you don't get more.

[bigbikerrick]

Rower 30, How about the use of moly additive in Guzzi bevel boxes? Is it bad for the ball bearings in there? On my 73 eldo, it seems every time I change rear drive lube, all the moly just sits down in the sump, like a sticky, gloppy , substance that I usually end up cleaning out with a screwdriver tip wrapped in a rag. The "guard dog" moly I use seems to just accumulate in the bottom part , I am not so sure how much good if any it is doing, where the pinion gear contacts the ring gear..
Rick

[Rower30]

The problem with moly in the wrong pplication, is that the "plates" of moly will stick roller bearings like a rock in front of a metal wheel. Moly works on compression between surfaces so the plates slide across each other and between each side of the bearing like a sandwich. The inner moly platlets slides easily between the moly adhered to the two opposite surfaces. Moly is great for sliding surfaces.

Roller bearings have an entirely different way they work. Moly can make roller bearing skid and this increases the wear and heat. Caged roller bearings need to ROLL continuously. Even more sensitive are wide needle bearings where one end skidding and the other end not can eventually explode the bearing. When one needle isn't parallel to the rest, BOOM.

For high speed (wheel bearings) roller bearings heavy NLGI-1 based lithium grease is best. In hot applications you need NLGI-3 grease. We have the temperature, and the viscosity at that temperature to consider.

SOME, super slow but highly loaded roller bearings can use moly additives, but be sure that's the case. High speed wheel bearings and lawn mower blade spindles as examples need lithium based grease as an example. I use Moly on the plain, flat or circular, bearings everywhere else.

In your crankcase, the worse case bearing needs to be the common denominator. You may have plain bearings on the big end, and needle bearings on the small end on the connecting rod in some engines. Look at your exploded diagram of your engine. If you see roller bearings don't use Moly UNLESS you absolutely know it is a slow RPM and high load bearing. Even then what did the maufacturer say to use?

If this thread does anything, it should make people aware the lubricants have limitations and it isn't all the same.

[guzziart]

Nothing wrong with SuperTech oils. As long as the specs on the back of the bottle meet or exceed the manufacturers requirements the brand or bottle color is irrelevant. The only reason I don't use SuperTech 20W-50 (regular not the V-twin buzzword stuff) in the Hexheads is I get Mobil-1 15W-50 for less money.

I use Supertech gear oil in the BMW's. You can pay more but you don't get more.

I agree for the most part but it probably is nowhere as good as the purple or red colored stuff.  Right?  If it came in green for "GO" it would be even better!  As for the packaging, a fancy bottle looks better on th egarage shelf than an unfancy one, in my humble opinion.

Why would we want synthetic ceramic when real ceramic is readily available?   

Did someone mention grease?

[Rower30]

The problem with moly in the wrong application, is that the "plates" of moly will stick roller bearings like a rock in front of a metal wheel. Moly works on compression between surfaces so the plates slide across each other and between each side of the bearing like a sandwich. The inner moly platlets slides easily between the moly adhered to the two opposite surfaces. Moly is great for sliding surfaces.

Roller bearings have an entirely different way they work. Moly can make roller bearing skid and this increases the wear and heat. Caged roller bearings need to ROLL continuously. Even more sensitive are wide needle bearings where one end skidding and the other end not can eventually explode the bearing. When one needle isn't parallel to the rest, BOOM.

For high speed (wheel bearings) roller bearings heavy NLGI-1 based lithium grease is best. In hot applications you need NLGI-3 grease. We have the temperature, and the viscosity at that temperature to consider.

SOME, super slow but highly loaded roller bearings can use moly additives, but be sure that's the case. High speed wheel bearings and lawn mower blade spindles as examples need lithium based grease as an example. I use Moly on the plain, flat or circular, bearings everywhere else.

In your crankcase, the worse case bearing needs to be the common denominator. You may have plain bearings on the big end, and needle bearings on the small end on the connecting rod in some engines. Look at your exploded diagram of your engine. If you see roller bearings don't use Moly UNLESS you absolutely know it is a slow RPM and high load bearing. Even then what did the maufacturer say to use?

If this thread does anything, it should make people aware the lubricants have limitations and it isn't all the same.

[mechanicsavant]

I get my favorite additive from a local tuner shop . It’s main additive is unobtainium, works for me and @ $100 per ounce , what a bargain !