Any changes from '23 to '24 V7s?

[Buddy Shagmore]

Eyeing a leftover '23. Just wondering if the '24s have any upgrades or changes?

[Dave Swanson]

Eyeing a leftover '23. Just wondering if the '24s have any upgrades or changes?

No changes to the V7-850 for 24 except for colors and new special models.  The V85TT did receive quite a few changes. 

[Buddy Shagmore]

Thanks Dave. Another question: is there a gear position indicator on the 850 Special with the twin dials?

[Dave Swanson]

Thanks Dave. Another question: is there a gear position indicator on the 850 Special with the twin dials?

It appears there is a gear indicator.

[Buddy Shagmore]

Actually, there is no gear postion indictor on the Special. The dial above is showing the odometer. I went to the local dealer to check it out.

[Kev m]

Actually, there is no gear postion indictor on the Special. The dial above is showing the odometer. I went to the local dealer to check it out.

You know as you toggle through the menu the display changes.

On my V7III the gear indicator isn't visible in some of the displays but is there for others.

Also, I forget, but it won't show up in certain operating conditions, like clutch lever pulled in. I forget if it shows (other than neutral) if the engine is off.

[eljayski]

It appears there is a gear indicator.

Dave is correct; all display modes except odometer on my '23 Special

[Moparnut72]

Dave is correct; all display modes except odometer on my '23 Special

Exactly, even on my 2019.
kk

[bad Chad]

You know as you toggle through the menu the display changes.

On my V7III the gear indicator isn't visible in some of the displays but is there for others.

Also, I forget, but it won't show up in certain operating conditions, like clutch lever pulled in. I forget if it shows (other than neutral) if the engine is off.

That system has been left behind.  The new system does not depend on matching rpm with running gear to provide gear notice.   The new system will indicate gear, even when clutch is pulled.

[bronzestar1]

I put a deposit down on a '24 Corsa back in Nov, got tired of waiting, so I bought a '23 Special Edition a few weeks ago that was discounted $1800.  Mechanically, there are no differences between the years, just cosmetic (paint schemes).  The one '24 model with the racing flag on the tank is sweet, but again, it was lack of availability that made me pull the trigger on the '23. 

[SportsterDoc]

That system has been left behind.  The new system does not depend on matching rpm with running gear to provide gear notice.   The new system will indicate gear, even when clutch is pulled.

New for 2024?
My 2023 V7-850 SE calculates the gear based upon speed vs RPM.
Hence a slight delay in indication and does not display when stopped or clutch disengaged.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

I am curious about this too. If there is an actual gear position sensor on the 2024, I would be interested in what it would take to retrofit that to my 2022 which has the same issue as many other bikes where it calculates gear selection based on rpm & speed.

[Kev m]

I am curious about this too. If there is an actual gear position sensor on the 2024, I would be interested in what it would take to retrofit that to my 2022 which has the same issue as many other bikes where it calculates gear selection based on rpm & speed.

1. If there's an actual gear position sensor it would likely mean a change to the shift drum or cam at minimum, but it's also likely the case itself or a cover might have a difference to mount the sensor. Then there's the sensor and harness, as the harness would have like 5 additional wires.

2. I take issue with the term "issue". First, I've owned so many bikes without a gearshift indicator just having a bike with one that isn't instant or precise in all circumstances isn't any issue at all. And second, if you have one WTF does it take to just realize the times it doesn't read or read accurately and just adapt? I mean crap, oh it says in still in 4th but I pulled in the clutch and downshifted a few times, whatever will I do if I'm not sure if it's 1st or 2nd (I dunno, F'n try to shift down once more and I'll know for sure?)

Obviously I think it's folly to even give a crap.

[bronzestar1]

I'm with "Kev M" on this one.  I've been riding 40+ years, don't really need a gear indicator, it's just second nature to me.  It's a nice option for sure, but far from being a deal breaker, or wanting one so badly that I'll modify a bike that doesn't have one. 

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Really I doubt the change was made for the 2024 model as suggested, but if it is that's a nice improvement.

The issue is not the lack of gear indicator, the issue is having a gear indicator that at times doesn't actually display the selected gear. IMO it's a poor implementation to have one calculate the selected gear, rather than use a sensor to pick up from the source of truth - the physical gear selection at the shift drum. It would be less of a complaint from me if they had omitted the gear indicator and stuck with just the federally mandated neutral indicator light.

[Kev m]

Really I doubt the change was made for the 2024 model as suggested, but if it is that's a nice improvement.

The issue is not the lack of gear indicator, the issue is having a gear indicator that at times doesn't actually display the selected gear. IMO it's a poor implementation to have one calculate the selected gear, rather than use a sensor to pick up from the source of truth - the physical gear selection at the shift drum. It would be less of a complaint from me if they had omitted the gear indicator and stuck with just the federally mandated neutral indicator light.

Isn't there a N light too?

I don't think I've ever seen a bike that had an indicator but no light?

[Vagrant]

Yes, there is an N. light.
I have a 22 and a 23 and have never noticed the issue. The flippen tach is supposed to be you're gear indicator! If it isn't above 3500 and below 7600 you need to shift.

[Kev m]

Yes, there is an N. light.

So, and forgive my continued bluntness, then what's the problem with just ignoring the indicator and using the N light?


This reminds me of the complaints I'd hear a couple of decades ago when EFI bikes started popping up. People would bitch about the lack of "reserve" and/or lack of a fuel gauge. But nothing had actually changed from the decades of bikes before that used a petcock with a reserve setting.

Reset trip meter at each fuel up. Watch miles and wait for reserve light... refill and not mileage/usage. Eventually you get a feel for it.

OK, in that case there was ONE tiny difference, if the fuel reserve light failed you would then have to notice the light hasn't come on when past the usual mileage and investigate. On an EFI bike if you get the bucking bronco feeling it's too late. But again, easily avoided.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

That's what I do is ignore it because it's an instrument that is not always accurate. I wouldn't mind a retrofit solution to correct it, though it's not a feature I need, same for the tach. Surely it's helpful information to some, especially new riders or folks context switching between bikes, but to me it's most bothersome that they'd bother to implement something poorly like that. When it comes to features like that, I'm of the opinion to either do it right or don't bother doing it at all. Same goes for other tech and features (shift light, fuel economy display, cruise control, traction control, ABS, linked brakes, etc).

[Kev m]

That's what I do is ignore it because it's an instrument that is not always accurate. I wouldn't mind a retrofit solution to correct it, though it's not a feature I need, same for the tach. Surely it's helpful information to some, especially new riders or folks context switching between bikes, but to me it's most bothersome that they'd bother to implement something poorly like that. When it comes to features like that, I'm of the opinion to either do it right or don't bother doing it at all. Same goes for other tech and features (shift light, fuel economy display, cruise control, traction control, ABS, linked brakes, etc).

Meh

It's a very common way to provide a feature/function at a cheaper price. It saves on components/complexity. As I noted the switch, harness, and drum/cam are all more simple and I'm sure cheaper for that reason. Since it's such a unimportant feature even my anal-retentive self can't rise to the level of umbrage over it. Simply understanding how and when it functions is enough for it to retain 99% of it's limited usefulness to me.

We could probably debate the rest of the items you listed ad nauseum as well, but in the end they are what they are for a reason (usually money).

Except that last one, linked brakes, since Guzzi hasn't had em for a while now. But as I mentioned in the related Linked Brakes thread, DAMN does Harley do it right these days on their FLH's. I actually wouldn't mind a system like that on the V7s, if I'm gonna have ABS anyway.

You know where I'd spend the money? Not on this electronic stuff, but in better suspension and dual discs up front. That would give me warm and fuzzies.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Even budget motorcycles such as the Honda Super Cub have it done right with a gear position sensor at the shift drum where one was already installed on prior generations to comply with FMVSS requirement for the neutral indicator. That's why it bugs me anytime money has been spent on implementing it in a less accurate way, other than in aftermarket instrumentation (e.g. Koso Taiwan gauges and all the companies they whitelabel for). My opinion remains that it's better to omit something than implement it poorly. It creates a stigma for the brand and the feature when it's not done right.

Yes, I have an older FLHTCI and even that has good "reflex" linked brakes. On the newer models the linked brakes are even better, but other tech, such as adaptive ride height can be a liability as even if you choose not to use it, it can still malfunction.

[kingoffleece]

Most of us just ride 'em and say "it is what it is".

[blu guzz]

I see what Enzo is saying and have to add my 2 cents even though no one asked.  Any piece of Italian machinery has to overcome the bias of the old reputation of Fix it again Tony.  If you are a dealer and trying to sell a bike to someone coming from Asian bikes, you start with an understanding that the potential customer has heard that expression or is at your dealer to convince themselves that it is no longer true and that MG would be a suitable bike with "character" to ride.  Character being the side to side rocking and other interesting things that Guzzi's do.  To the new potential owner, Character is not a shift light that does not work properly, in there mind, that is a flaw.  To follow the logic stream, if they can't get that right, what else lurks.  I better stick with my Honda, etc. 
We old timers will put this issue in the "character" bucket, but not the noobs.  It is confirmation bias to them.
I have had 3 Geese and 3 Italian cars (now a new Alfa), so I have some knowledge of what I speak.  In other words, I can take a lot of punishment for the love of these machines when they are performing at their best.  BTW, my Geese have been magnificent in the reliability catagory.

[Kev m]

Even budget motorcycles such as the Honda Super Cub have it done right with a gear position sensor at the shift drum where one was already installed on prior generations to comply with FMVSS requirement for the neutral indicator.

I can't say about the Cub, but a spot check of a dozen Honda manuals I've written including the CBR, CRF, etc in the 125-300 range most just use a neutral switch and no Gear Position Switch. Same with 300 and 500 Rebel, Monkey... One exception was the CRF300L.

If I were to guess I'd say less than half of the JAPanInc. products I come across have a GP switch, but most of my work is on the smaller displacement stuff so that might skew my impression.

I see what Enzo is saying and have to add my 2 cents even though no one asked.  Any piece of Italian machinery has to overcome the bias of the old reputation of Fix it again Tony.  If you are a dealer and trying to sell a bike to someone coming from Asian bikes, you start with an understanding that the potential customer has heard that expression or is at your dealer to convince themselves that it is no longer true and that MG would be a suitable bike with "character" to ride.  Character being the side to side rocking and other interesting things that Guzzi's do.  To the new potential owner, Character is not a shift light that does not work properly, in there mind, that is a flaw.  To follow the logic stream, if they can't get that right, what else lurks.  I better stick with my Honda, etc. 
We old timers will put this issue in the "character" bucket, but not the noobs.  It is confirmation bias to them.
I have had 3 Geese and 3 Italian cars (now a new Alfa), so I have some knowledge of what I speak.  In other words, I can take a lot of punishment for the love of these machines when they are performing at their best.  BTW, my Geese have been magnificent in the reliability catagory.

You have a point and I agree that's a potential problem, though I lump those customers in to the general population that thinks/does dumb things like:

* Nothing but the best for my baby, I'll take the 93 octane
* I cut out the baffles so it makes more power
* My tire pressure is fine, I inflated the tires to what it says on the sidewall

etc.

I have always felt that motorcycle owners NEED to be more, uhhh, in touch with the mechanics of their machine. Or at least should be more motivated to understand it than appliance owners. But I guess that's my personal prejudice.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Yes, blu guzz, you have nailed it. People who don't know Moto Guzzis often ask me about reliability and I tell them that mine has been great other than the headset bearings rusting out in the first year, and the ignition switch requiring cleaning on occasion. Turns out those annoyance for me are categorized as "not reliable, wouldn't buy it" for others. Ironic if they're riding a machine that has its own notorious reliability issues, but still, the small issues create a stigma and that is especially true when it comes to technology or anything on the screen, and even more so from those who are used to NOT having those features and getting along just fine without them.

Kev m,
Some top of head corrections from bikes I'm more familiar with: the Monkey does not have a gear position indicator, just the neutral indicator light. The more recent Super Cub and Grom models do have gear indicators that read from the drum and display on the OEM display. Their sensor can be retrofit to the Monkey with an aftermarket gear position indicator, which is a common mod and something I've installed. The CRF and Rebel models with a gear indicator, at least the more recent ones, do calculate gear based on speed and rpm but to prevent misreporting the gear they display "-" when the clutch is disengaged.

I think many people come from the "general population" before they learn to be mechanical with motorcycles, so you can't fault them for starting out without knowledge. IMO it's better to not be hostile toward those views and instead enlighten them and share the joy you find in the alignment of man and machine. Those first two points are debatable as well, many people buy premium fuel for the additives rather than the octane, and on some bikes removing exhaust baffles does make more power if the fueling can accommodate it. You don't need to take my word for that, as there are dyno videos on YouTube dedicated to that comparison of performance and it's why many aftermarket exhausts have removable baffles paired with different performance numbers for baffled & street legal vs baffle removed for off-highway race use.

[Kev m]

Some top of head corrections from bikes I'm more familiar with: the Monkey does not have a gear position indicator, just the neutral indicator light. The more recent Super Cub and Grom models do have gear indicators that read from the drum and display on the OEM display. Their sensor can be retrofit to the Monkey with an aftermarket gear position indicator, which is a common mod and something I've installed. The CRF and Rebel models with a gear indicator, at least the more recent ones, do calculate gear based on speed and rpm but to prevent misreporting the gear they display "-" when the clutch is disengaged.

I didn't say the ones I checked had a gear position indicator, I said they just had a neutral switch. MY POINT being again that their owners didn't NEED a position indicator and there are plenty of bikes that don't have it. Sorry if that wasn't clear. They were examples were the OEM decided not to bother with any form of GP indicator. Some might argue that the speed/rpm systems at least offered most of the function with no extra cost.

Though now that we're debating it, I wonder if there is an impetus to put gear indicators more on budget bikes than expensive ones with the logic being new riders might be more likely to "want/need" such things? Hmmm, I have no data or swag on that one.

But it's funny, I noted when looking at the Monkey that, though the harness just had the one circuit, the TYPE of switch it used wasn't a single wire ground like a neutral switch, it was a rotating switch with a drive pin that fits into the drum/cam. Meaning it was just a wire harness away from a retrofit since the mechanical parts were already there. I hadn't really thought to question the use of that style switch as JUST a neutral switch when I wrote that manual but looking at the design I guess they might have been setting themselves up for a possible future change to a gear shift display. * shrugs * - but that at least made your question seem less out of left field lol.

I think many people come from the "general population" before they learn to be mechanical with motorcycles, so you can't fault them for starting out without knowledge. IMO it's better to not be hostile toward those views and instead enlighten them and share the joy you find in the alignment of man and machine. Those first two points are debatable as well, many people buy premium fuel for the additives rather than the octane, and on some bikes removing exhaust baffles does make more power if the fueling can accommodate it. You don't need to take my word for that, as there are dyno videos on YouTube dedicated to that comparison of performance and it's why many aftermarket exhausts have removable baffles paired with different performance numbers for baffled & street legal vs baffle removed for off-highway race use.

Maybe it's the life-long battle against misinformation that's worn me down. I mean we're talking decades of writing manuals for the general public and I've seen the general public do some amazingly stupid things in that time. I do find the joy, I'm happy to share it, but sometimes it's just not worth it.

But to be real, those points are not debatable without a micrometer:

* Using a higher than rated octane on any ICE motor with no other modifications to fueling and ignition timing has absolutely ZERO benefit, and can result in higher emissions and carbon buildup over time. Come on the additives argument is weak. Any fuel from a reputable supplier that is not old or contaminated will be fine if it meets the OEM recommendations.

* Baffles - You know damn well I'm talking about the idiots who do nothing but remove baffles or put loud exhausts on motors not those who at least take the time to retune/map etc. I don't need to go to YouBoob to see videos of dyno tuning that has nothing to do with the quote. I'm talking the guys who cut pipes, make noise, and then claim a Brazilian more hp.

Anyway, let me know if the style switch found on the late-model V7s and their switches when you do, if only for curiosity's sake.

[blu guzz]

Kev, we've got to get at least a few of the younger crowd even if uninformed so they can eventually become jaded old farts like us.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

If they are a motorcycle sold in the USA and don't have a transmission that's considered to be automatic or semi-automatic, then other than some exceptions the neutral indicator is required per the NHTSA enforced Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS). Same reason fully manual bikes in the states have 1st gear at the "bottom" relative to the toe action, standardized requirements.

You're likely onto something with beginner and budget bikes having it, but then I find that though many mid-tier bikes lack it, top spec bikes nearly always have it. But hey, so do MotoGP bikes, and they're not staring at their screens too much while riding.

Sure, will let you know - though I remain doubtful that MG made those changes to the V7 for 2024. Perhaps bad Chad was referring to a different model than the one this thread is about.

[kingoffleece]

Let me see................ .66 now, had motorbikes of all kinds since 9 years old, and snowmobiles before that.  My family was a dealer.
Did I manage without gear selectors, quick shifters, tpms, cruise, and a whole bunch of things?  Yep.

Sure, I get it.  Tech moves on.  So much so, we now get warning NOT to drinK battery acid.

[Moparnut72]

I have a V100 which has a gear indicator. I find it to be useful on this bike because it is quite powerful and has such a wide power band that it is sometimes nice to know which gear I am in especially when I am about to make a quick pass.
kk