EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show

[Kev m]

As both a V7 owner and a (now discontinued) Harley Sportster 1200 owner... How much longer can Moto Guzzi avoid making the V7 liquid cooled and still meet emissions requirements?

As a former Harley owner you might get that it's largely a balance between the priorities of performance and emissions.

I mean Harley still sells mostly air-cooled bikes.

And BMW went the other direction stepping back a little from water cooled bikes releasing new lines of air cooled boxers.

So it really depends on market pressures and regulatory pressures but fans of air-cooled motors shouldn't give up hope quite yet.

[Dirk_S]

As both a V7 owner and a (now discontinued) Harley Sportster 1200 owner... How much longer can Moto Guzzi avoid making the V7 liquid cooled and still meet emissions requirements?

Yep, always a concern, but the same can be applied to any other air-cooled bike currently out there. Some are just better designed to take on the tightening restrictions (and internally, such is the case comparing the small blocks to the recently extinct big blocks). As for Harley, their engineers—at least in their racing departments, perhaps also the consumer-street end, too—seem to be more short-sighted and willing to work more with bandaid fixes.

I’m sure Piaggio has a good idea just how long the small block’s remaining theoretical shelf life is. Someone just needs to ask them nicely 

[Moparnut72]

Good question, I think a lot of us wonder the same thing.
kk

[rtbickel]

Impatiently waiting for the V100 California.

[bad Chad]

M/C media started predicting the coming soon demise of air cooled motors back in the mid 90s, it's 30 years later and they're still with us.  However, the end is likely not to many years off.

[PeteS]

Well the 2025 V85 passes Euro5+ so I suspect its good until more stringent standards are passed.

Pete

[bettythebear]

I read an article about Euro 5+ that basically said the criteria was the same, except that now they catalyst has to be tested in a long term way for durability and efficiency, instead of just testing the pollutants coming from a brand new bike one time. Now they have a 35k km testing cycle for degradation of the catalyst.

[adri]

Good question, I think a lot of us wonder the same thing.
kk

Thanks all. I was wondering if there was any gossip or rumours out there on when Moto Guzzi / Piaggio might be forced to change, but, no news is good news.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I wonder if the Chang Jiang 750 Defender will be there-------------------

https://www.rideapart.com/news/687891/changjiang-v750-defender-sidecar-design/

Chang Jiang made about 1,000,000 sidecar units for the Chinese Army.
They were based on a Ural only they just had splash lube, a POS
When I was in Beijing I visited an American who was refurbishing these machines upgrading the motors with BMW Boxer engines.
I hired one for the day to Visit the great wall,
I called a company Bejing Sideways and next morning a driver and Guide picked me up at the hotel
SO it looks like they are now knocking off a Guzzi, I wonder what shortcuts they are taking there?

[Frenchfrog]

For starters I think the chinese engine is a 750.I'd expect it to only be compliant with less stringent emissions too.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

For starters I think the chinese engine is a 750.I'd expect it to only be compliant with less stringent emissions too.

I wouldn't expect the emissions to rule out an export to the USA, as the USA is a place older models tend to "go to die" after strict tailpipe emissions restrict their sale in other parts of the world. The USA is more lenient on those, but in some ways can be more strict on noise emissions.
RevZilla had an article on this a while ago:
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/is-the-united-states-where-old-motorcycles-go-to-die

Some recent examples are Honda shipping the Navi to the USA after it was discontinued due to not meeting tailpipe emissions requirements in India, and the USA market Honda Transalp XL750 making less peak power and being limited to a lower RPM than elsewhere in the world so that it would comply with USA noise emission requirements.

I read an article about Euro 5+ that basically said the criteria was the same, except that now they catalyst has to be tested in a long term way for durability and efficiency, instead of just testing the pollutants coming from a brand new bike one time. Now they have a 35k km testing cycle for degradation of the catalyst.

Of the few "Euro5+" 2025 model year updates I've seen to existing Euro5 bikes on the market, so far most of them have noted changes to the exhaust, specifically the catalyst, and the tune.

I reached out to Hamlin Cycles, the upgraded front brake setup they offer is indeed the higher spec Brembo master cylinder and front brake caliper. Not really Guzzi pricing on the parts as you can buy them much cheaper elsewhere, but it would be a good option for someone on the East coast also looking to have a shop install it for them.

The Moto Morini mention had my attention until I looked them up... Chinese bikes wearing an Italian brand. Not my cup of tea. If I wanted to buy something with a CFMoto engine it would likely be a KTM for the established brand support and local dealerships.

[Kildareman]

I read an article about Euro 5+ that basically said the criteria was the same, except that now they catalyst has to be tested in a long term way for durability and efficiency, instead of just testing the pollutants coming from a brand new bike one time. Now they have a 35k km testing cycle for degradation of the catalyst.

The new V85's (E5+) also have a 3rd Lamda sensor after the cat, thus able to check the condition & performance of the cat with those. 

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

The 2025 V7 Sport rumor is confirmed by the same bike spotted on the venue floor.
Photo from "Moto Guzzi Daily" on Facebook, not mine.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/4937603529687444/posts/8704365479677878/

[Kev m]

The 2025 V7 Sport rumor is confirmed by the same bike spotted on the venue floor.
Photo from "Moto Guzzi Daily" on Facebook, not mine.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/4937603529687444/posts/8704365479677878/

Oooooooooo I think that badge says V7 SPORT.

[blackcat]

Gold rims as standard, hopefully they will have red available in the premier model.



Edit:



Familiar paint work:

[jcctx]

Oooooooooo I think that badge says V7 SPORT.

Looks like V7GRT?????

[Kev m]

Looks like V7GRT?????

Look closer. Maybe one of these links will help:

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMBu5qXHZIdMNrouRpUSe5fnPryQva7rDv3AEqQfHBpePgPrLSroxkosTaPBbYExA/photo/AF1QipOq_XyYgdwa1rtMGUv2ZlFCnA8hU_N4-NnqrEN-?key=cTk3cUIwR1N2NW5EZU9NN3pFak5UX04teWtZQzV3

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1x8mDte7v4jPvzBM8

[MGrego]

Gold rims as standard, hopefully they will have red available in the premier model.



Edit:



Familiar paint work:

On the V100 Mandello - In addition to the different rims and changes to the color scheme, the windscreen has been changed.  Looks like a notch has been made along the bottom, maybe for a different actuator mechanism ?

[ScepticalScotty]

Pretty much what I expected from the V7 Sport - will be very interested to see the specs of the motor when that is released. Like everything about it from what I can see apart from the pleated seat! It will be interesting to test ride in sequence - my 2004 Breva750 ->Standard V7 Stone - > V7 Sport.

[blackcat]

“Looks like a notch has been made along the bottom, maybe for a different actuator mechanism ?“

From what I read, it is probably related to the optional radar system.

[Moparnut72]

Adaptive cruise control wouldn't break my heart. It works really well on my wife's Jeep. It will detect traffic slowdown before I can. That's what it looks like to me, radar head.
kk

[SLDMRossi]

More...looks like somebody snuck in on setup day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGBNuGetH68

SR

[Dirk_S]

I find it odd that they’re selling a “V7 Sport” with a standard handlebar.

Personally disappointed with what Guzzi has to show. I don’t demand a large stable of bikes out of this small production brand, but I do feel they’ve regressed in the past 10 years. No scrambler. No cafe. Just a heavy standard with an ugly digital dash, a sport tourer and adventure bike using the liquid-cooled motor that appear much closer in design and performance than perhaps they ought to be, an air-cooled “cruiser” that’s pretty much a V7 with balloon tires, a goofy tank, and still sells poorly. Seems to me like they have 2.5 good motors to develop more platforms off of. Where’s that California? Anything new with the V9? Stornello? V85X?

[Kev m]

I find it odd that they’re selling a “V7 Sport” with a standard handlebar.

Personally disappointed with what Guzzi has to show. I don’t demand a large stable of bikes out of this small production brand, but I do feel they’ve regressed in the past 10 years. No scrambler. No cafe. Just a heavy standard with an ugly digital dash, a sport tourer and adventure bike using the liquid-cooled motor that appear much closer in design and performance than perhaps they ought to be, an air-cooled “cruiser” that’s pretty much a V7 with balloon tires, a goofy tank, and still sells poorly.

Heh?!?

I dunno. I don't get the Scrambler thing anyway and I don't think they sold well.

And a cafe? Isn't that the V7 Sport with a fairing or a different seat?

And what is selling poorly?

Wait, do we even KNOW what the full line-up is? Aren't we just seeing snippets of what they are showing at the EICMA here?

Did I miss an official announcement?

[Dirk_S]

Heh?!?

I dunno. I don't get the Scrambler thing anyway and I don't think they sold well.

And yet the major brands still pump them out—Royal Enfield, Triumph, Honda, BMW and more have scramblers in their lineup. Aside from the Stornello, Guzzi simply offered kits, and barely any for the V7III range (scrambler exhausts for a V7 III are hard to come by, hence why I bought a salvage V7 III with one attached).

And a cafe? Isn't that the V7 Sport with a fairing or a different seat?

I didn’t live in the initial period of production but to me, a factory cafe at least needs clip-ons or sporty bars, which is why I’m puzzled over the Sport moniker. Isn’t it the first V7 sport/racer/cafe not using clip-ons?

And what is selling poorly?

I was referring to the V9.

Wait, do we even KNOW what the full line-up is? Aren't we just seeing snippets of what they are showing at the EICMA here?

Did I miss an official announcement?

Wouldn’t we have seen the bigger reveals via pics by now?

[Ed / AF1 Racing]

some V7 info

[Ed / AF1 Racing]

some V100 info

[Ed / AF1 Racing]

Stelvio Tributo

[Kev m]

(A) And yet the major brands still pump them out—Royal Enfield, Triumph, Honda, BMW and more have scramblers in their lineup. Aside from the Stornello, Guzzi simply offered kits, and barely any for the V7III range (scrambler exhausts for a V7 III are hard to come by, hence why I bought a salvage V7 III with one attached).


(B) I didn’t live in the initial period of production but to me, a factory cafe at least needs clip-ons or sporty bars, which is why I’m puzzled over the Sport moniker. Isn’t it the first V7 sport/racer/cafe not using clip-ons?


(C) I was referring to the V9.


(D) Wouldn’t we have seen the bigger reveals via pics by now?

(A) - BMW dropped it. Yeah Duc and Triumph still have em. I could care less what Honda has. But like I say to my kids. "Just because other kids are doing it isn't justification enough for you to". I don't see that the V7 SCRAMBLERS WERE POPULAR, I think they lagged in sales. That's what I was saying.

(B) - I don't think that just because something is called a Sport or V7 Sport it needs to be a clone of the original. Yes I believe the original had clip ons, but ugh, man, I'm glad this doesn't personally. I wonder how the Racer sold vs the Special and Stone - that could be the reason right there. I'd rather have to change bars than say FRONT END and BRAKES. But that's just me.

(C) - oh, yeah, but I guess I missed your point. So you're bitching that they offered IT (a V9) in the first place instead of something else? Again, I suspect they know what is and what is not selling. So they tried something different. I don't hold that against them.

(D) - No Since I posted that I have just FINALLY seen ANY official announcement. The show is the debut for some new product and then they can add models or take away models when they want right? Maybe this is all that will be new but still, small brand, small changes.



EDIT - HUZAH - they updated the whole V7 line to the 52 mm throttle body and ride by wire!!!! That IS a big change. That's awesome!

[kingoffleece]

I've mentioned it here a few times.  The V9 was made in response to requests from the UK dealers and importer.  Possibly one of our friends over there can chime in.

As for scrambler, or this, or that.  Companies mentioned make and sell WAY more than Guzzi.  Ya can't be all thinks to all people unless you're Honda or similar.
Look at all the great deals available on leftovers from Guzzi.  Heck, one can still get a new Black/White special V85 brand new-and they made what-1500 or so limited editions?