New V7 Sport

[faffi]

I like lightweight motorcycles; 30 hp and 300 lbs with a full tank of fuel suits me, and our roads, perfectly.

[egschade]

I like lightweight motorcycles; 30 hp and 300 lbs with a full tank of fuel suits me, and our roads, perfectly.

Where is "our roads"?

[kingoffleece]

Netherlands, I think.

[Moparnut72]

As I have mentioned before, I wish everyone would at least give a general location on their avatar as to where they are. It would give a better perspective as to some of their posts.
kk

[faffi]

Where is "our roads"?

My bad. Norway. Speed limit in built-up areas typically 50 kph / 31 mph, country roads limit is typically 80 kph / 50 mph, highway mostly restricted to 90 kph / 56 mph, but some places one can see 100 kph / 62 mph or even 110 kph / 68 mph. I do all I can to avoid highways when riding, they are for getting places rapidly. For me, rapid progress = transport = car. I keep my riding recreational, but I have great respect for people who can do 1000 mile days in the saddle.

[kidsmoke]

My bad. Norway. Speed limit in built-up areas typically 50 kph / 31 mph, country roads limit is typically 80 kph / 50 mph, highway mostly restricted to 90 kph / 56 mph, but some places one can see 100 kph / 62 mph or even 110 kph / 68 mph. I do all I can to avoid highways when riding, they are for getting places rapidly. For me, rapid progress = transport = car. I keep my riding recreational, but I have great respect for people who can do 1000 mile days in the saddle.

Fascinating to consider. Here in the states, on interstate highways, 70-85 is the norm, and higher speed (85+) travellers are abundant. Doing 60 in a 40 is normal. Always interesting to know what other nations with the same technology in broad use consider appropriate.

[kirkemon]

This V7 Sport is lighter but less hp than my modernish T120; it is heavier and more hp than my W650.
I'm 73 and I'm looking forward to this. I'm not racing it, nor touring on it.
Not having seen it yet, from the pictures, the switch gear look pretty ugly. And the pigeon on the tank and headlight need to go IMHO.

[Huzo]

Fascinating to consider. Here in the states, on interstate highways, 70-85 is the norm, and higher speed (85+) travellers are abundant. Doing 60 in a 40 is normal. Always interesting to know what other nations with the same technology in broad use consider appropriate.

Here in Oz, if you exceed the limit by 5 kph routinely, you WILL lose your licence due to accumulation of demerit points.
Camera cars are very common.

[faffi]

Here in Oz, if you exceed the limit by 5 kph routinely, you WILL lose your licence due to accumulation of demerit points.
Camera cars are very common.

Even worse than here. Usually, if you are speeding by less than 10%, you will not be caught, although the law say you should be fined for 5 kph over. If you drive touching (you do not have to talk into it) a mobile telephone, you will be fined about 850 USD (due to a very weak NOK - if we go back 5 years, the eqv to the fine in USD would have been around 1800). 10 kph above the limit will cost you about USD 300. If you do 22 to 25 mph above the speed limit in a 90 kph / 56 mph zone, you will pay about USD 1400. From 150 kph / 93 mph actual speed in the same zone, you will go to jail and lose your license for about 2 years, depending on the actual conditions during the speeding.

You will also lose your license if you earn more than 8 demerit points within a 36 month period. 11-15 kph above the limit will earn you 2 points. Considering the amount of speeding I have done during my 45 years riding and driving, I have been very lucky to only received 2 small fines, dating back around 35-40 years.

We have one benefit over Oz; in order for a fine to stick when caught by a speeding camera, the picture must show the face of the driver. Hence motorcycles cannot be caught on speed cameras. Same with cars lacking a front license number. And if the face of the driver is hidden, or the police cannot positively identify the driver, there will be no fine.

[bad Chad]

T120 is a 1200, I would hope it has more hp than a v7!

[twowheeladdict]

Observations of a 71-year-old: 

1.As the years pile on, they ALL turn into 'big' bikes.
2. Who is the smarter person? The riders in Asia, South and Central America, Mexico, et. al, who can transport the entire family and assorted livestock down a muddy unpaved track on a $400 125cc moto that can be repaired with common household items OR the riders in North America who spend $20,000+ on an 700+ lb. behemoth with a $1000.00 initial service charge and a 100-year-old engine design?

It's all a matter of perspective.

So, basically every bike made today.  Every cumbustion engine design can be traced back to 100 years ago or more.

[Huzo]

cumbustion

….

[twowheeladdict]

….

  I hate smartphones!  Made for the tiny thumb persons.  Guess I need to accept that AI help Google wants to push on me.

[JJ]

T120 is a 1200, I would hope it has more hp than a v7!

* Triumph T120 horsepower = 79

* Guzzi V7 850 horsepower = 65

  

[Kev m]

* Triumph T120 horsepower = 79

* Guzzi V7 850 horsepower = 65

  

Let's go a step further:

* Triumph T120 (1200cc) - 520# Wet - 79 hp
* BMW R1200R (1170cc) - 509-511# Wet - 109-125 hp depending on version
* Griso 1100 (1064cc) - 543# Wet - 86 hp


* Guzzi V7 Sport (853cc) - 485# Wet - 67 hp

So I guess it depends on what you're looking for, but the V7 Sport sounds pretty Goldilocks to me.

[Dirk_S]

T120 is a 1200, I would hope it has more hp than a v7!

Don’t forget the Triumph is also liquid-cooled, and so you would imagine a Triumph 1200 cc liquid-cooled bike to get something north of 100 hp. But, if I recall, the factory cam appears to be the restricting factor. I’ve read some forum comments and seen some videos purporting that installing a hot cam yielded much more of the Triumph bike’s capability.

Still, I think the T100 is more the Guzzi’s direct competition for pricing and performance, and I’m willing to wager (not much) that between the two, they’re quite fun to compare both on paper and empirical observation.

[Bulldog9]

Here in Oz, if you exceed the limit by 5 kph routinely, you WILL lose your licence due to accumulation of demerit points.
Camera cars are very common.

That's strict. Is there no differentiation between the 'type' of road? On our main highways, state highways and interstates, +10 MPH is almost always safe except in areas there is construction. Same is largely true in uninhabited places out in the wild/country with few cross streets or houses. In cities, and towns, with high population, you may get away with 5, but in some there is zero tolerance.

I generally ride just below the speed limit in populated areas, neighborhoods, cities with a high number of cross streets, etc. On more open roads, highways, etc. I will generally ride at what is the fastest the conditions and situations present, but always faster than whatever traffic is around me.  My 'theory'/ practice is that this small amount of deviation helps being seen.

My V7ii is PERFECT for slower back roads, city, and single lane. The motor is punchy and responsive at speeds below 60-65. Sure, I have had it on the highway and ridden at 70+ for hours, but there is VERY little left in the tank for quick acceleration. Same is true for the Baby Breva. The Big Blocks: Griso 1100, 1200 Sport (both 4V motors) and the Norge (8V motor) have loads of power and pull like freight trains up into the triple digits.

I have ridden the V85, and like the power bump over the V7 ii and iii, but it still can't compare to the Big Blocks. i did ride the V9 Bobber, and that felt closer to the BB motors. The 2nd Gen V7 850 in the upcoming V7 Sport has a larger throttle body, and TBW, I imagine it has closed the gap even more.

Does anyone know if the V7 Sport's motor is differentiated from the other V7 850's? Or do all get the larger TB? I'm pretty sure they all will have TBW.  I REALLY like the look of the V7 10, but am waiting to see the V7 Sport. But who am I kidding? Unless it is a killer deal, I will need to sell something to make room............... 

 

[faffi]

Don’t forget the Triumph is also liquid-cooled, and so you would imagine a Triumph 1200 cc liquid-cooled bike to get something north of 100 hp. But, if I recall, the factory cam appears to be the restricting factor. I’ve read some forum comments and seen some videos purporting that installing a hot cam yielded much more of the Triumph bike’s capability.

Still, I think the T100 is more the Guzzi’s direct competition for pricing and performance, and I’m willing to wager (not much) that between the two, they’re quite fun to compare both on paper and empirical observation.

Triumph 1200 Speed Twin
Liquid-cooled parallel twin, 8 valve, SOHC, 270 degree firing order
Capacity   1200 cc
Bore   97.6 mm
Stroke 80 mm
Compression   12.1:1
Max Power EC   105 PS / 103.5 bhp (77.2 kW) @ 7,750 rpm
Max Torque EC   112 Nm @ 4,250 rpm
Wet weight   476 lbs

[Dirk_S]

Triumph 1200 Speed Twin
Liquid-cooled parallel twin, 8 valve, SOHC, 270 degree firing order
Capacity   1200 cc
Bore   97.6 mm
Stroke 80 mm
Compression   12.1:1
Max Power EC   105 PS / 103.5 bhp (77.2 kW) @ 7,750 rpm
Max Torque EC   112 Nm @ 4,250 rpm
Wet weight   476 lbs

That wet weight seems awfully low for the T120. Are we sure of that claim accuracy? sorry, I failed to read throughly, but I’m not sure why we’re pulling up 1200cc Speed Twin specs.

I’m still surprised that the T120 isn’t pushing out more hp. It’s either being restricted, perhaps for model/engine marketing purposes, or the power curve directed to more torque…is my guess anyway.

I think I made this up—therefore it’s probably quite flawed—but I tend to look at the power expectation/comparison with air-cooled and liquid-cooled bikes by using a 10:1 ratio of CC to HP. If an air-cooled bike can get its HP close to 10% of the machine’s CC, I’m impressed (850cc yielding 65 hp), whereas a liquid-cooled bike should be near or exceeding that arbitrary 10% rule. Again, that volume-to-power equation is merely borne of my own ignorant biases; happy to be educated if need be.

But as mentioned, I think the T100 is the proper ride comparison to a Guzzi air-cooled small block. Modern classic to modern classic.

[Kev m]

Does anyone know if the V7 Sport's motor is differentiated from the other V7 850's? Or do all get the larger TB? I'm pretty sure they all will have TBW.  I REALLY like the look of the V7 10, but am waiting to see the V7 Sport. But who am I kidding? Unless it is a killer deal, I will need to sell something to make room............... 

All the new V7's have the larger throttle body with presumably the separate ECU like the V85.

They all have Ride By Wire, Cruise, and multi-mapping, but only the V7 SPORT has the "Sport" mapping mode. At least according to initial literature from Guzzi.

That wet weight seems awfully low for the T120. Are we sure of that claim accuracy?

I don't know where Faffi is getting that completely fictitious wet weight AHHH, never mind looked closer - He's talking about the Speed Twin and not the base T120 - TRIUMPH themselves said the 520# I quoted earlier on the T120:

https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/classic/bonneville-t120/specification

[Moparnut72]

The 1200 Speed Twin and the T120 are very different motorcycles. The T120 is tuned more for torque than HP. The Speed Twin is tuned for a bump in HP over the T120. I believe most of the difference is due to Cam timing. The now discontinued Thruxton had even more. I had a T120 it felt more like riding a Harley than a MG. When I traded my Bonneville for the V100 I had to teach myself to wind it up. I have heard that a number of years ago that MG took some 1400 Californias to Sturgis for demo rides. All those Harley guys came back in and said nice bikes but they don't have any power. Of course they are used to riding between 2,500 and 3,000 rpm.
kk

[faffi]

Dirk, I just posted the specs to show that the 1200 engine can produce more than 100 hp, and that the 79 hp limit is voluntary by Triumph. Just as the V7 850 can make 85 hp, but Guzzi decided to limit it to 67 in the new V7 Sport.

[twowheeladdict]

Dirk, I just posted the specs to show that the 1200 engine can produce more than 100 hp, and that the 79 hp limit is voluntary by Triumph. Just as the V7 850 can make 85 hp, but Guzzi decided to limit it to 67 in the new V7 Sport.

comparing the torque curves would show what Triumph is doing when tuning the engines.  My guess is that they are not limiting the HP on the T120, but the lower HP is a natural artifact of providing more torque lower in the rev range. 

[kidsmoke]

Don’t forget the Triumph is also liquid-cooled, and so you would imagine a Triumph 1200 cc liquid-cooled bike to get something north of 100 hp. But, if I recall, the factory cam appears to be the restricting factor. I’ve read some forum comments and seen some videos purporting that installing a hot cam yielded much more of the Triumph bike’s capability.

Still, I think the T100 is more the Guzzi’s direct competition for pricing and performance, and I’m willing to wager (not much) that between the two, they’re quite fun to compare both on paper and empirical observation.

I mentioned this somewhere not too long ago. A disproportionate number of my moto mates here in town are on T100's. One of them bought a V7III last year, keeping his beloved T100. He hasn't touched the Triumph since. Is amazed at the joy that the variation in power delivery provides. Most of these T100 owners ask that we avoid even brief trips on the slab when we ride together. Purely anecdotal, i know.

I'd imagine the V7/850 variant present an even starker contrast.

I've put several hundred miles on a Late model T120 and found it *yawn* very nice. Accelerated nicely. Stopped nicely. Handled well.   

 I'd never guess it had a 1200cc based on performance. But then again my 1200 frame of reference is my GRiSO. 

I'm very intrigued by the V7 Sport. i'd love to see one with some creative/appropriate bling. I think it'd be a wonderful runabout.

[kingoffleece]

I'm old enough and experienced enough to realize chasing spec sheets is foolish.  The "feel" we like is subjective.  Go with feel.

[Scott Carpenter]

Touring is exactly what I am going to do on my new V7 Sport when I get it. As I have done on my 750 Breva for 20 years. 

[aproud1]

I mentioned this somewhere not too long ago. A disproportionate number of my moto mates here in town are on T100's. One of them bought a V7III last year, keeping his beloved T100. He hasn't touched the Triumph since. Is amazed at the joy that the variation in power delivery provides. Most of these T100 owners ask that we avoid even brief trips on the slab when we ride together. Purely anecdotal, i know.

I'd imagine the V7/850 variant present an even starker contrast.

I've put several hundred miles on a Late model T120 and found it *yawn* very nice. Accelerated nicely. Stopped nicely. Handled well.   

 I'd never guess it had a 1200cc based on performance. But then again my 1200 frame of reference is my GRiSO. 

I'm very intrigued by the V7 Sport. i'd love to see one with some creative/appropriate bling. I think it'd be a wonderful runabout.

My V7III was perfectly happy on the highway. I was not when I was on it. Drove a V7850 and it was a much better place to be when on the highway. Hoping the new V7 Series is similar or better. Not a deal breaker for many. Is for me.

Pretty excited about the new V7Sport.

[Kev m]

My V7III was perfectly happy on the highway. I was not when I was on it. Drove a V7850 and it was a much better place to be when on the highway. Hoping the new V7 Series is similar or better. Not a deal breaker for many. Is for me.

Pretty excited about the new V7Sport.

Alright, I'll bite on the highway thing.

I've become a Guzzi smallblock enthusiast. They are right-sized for my life (meaning mostly 1-up, mostly local riding, but occasional backroad touring or even some highway jaunts).

When I sold my RK a few years ago I did so only after proving to myself that my smallblocks can do everything I want. That might even include a 300-400 mile day on the highway IF I HAVE TO. Even my low hp Heron Head CAN DO IT. But it's NOT FUN PERIOD.

I can't imagine a smallblock shy of maybe MAYBE this new one or the V85 matching what a Guzzi Big Block or a bigger bike like a Road King can feel like on the highway. It's not JUST speed, though traveling a turnpike at 70+ mph and having another quick/easy 20+ mph at your disposal certainly would help. It's also the long term comfort of the ergos, wind protection, and suspension (all of which are compromises on the smallblocks).

That all said - YEAH, my V7III has a little more power and a little more comfort, so it's a little less of a compromise.

I sorta think that with a little more power still, and a little more suspension and brake, the V7 Sport would be even less of a compromise still - but it's NEVER going to be a Road King or even a modern Ambo/Eldo (even if I wish it was on some level).

[bad Chad]

17, v9 will run all day on interstates at 80, without feeling winded or stressed.

[Scott Carpenter]

I think partly the perception is based on where we all live. I live in the UK, where motorways (to me at least) are a necessary evil sometimes to get to the good stuff; The Brecon Beacons, Snowdonia, Highlands of Scotland, Peak District Lake District etc. I did ride up to near the borders of Scotland once purely on back roads all the way (apart from about 5 miles!) and it was a magnificent 2 day trip and I saw parts of the country I had never seen before. But I had TIME for that trip. Most times I don't have that luxury, so its a boring motorway blast to the good stuff. At around 70mph. Locally...its all wiggly roads.    When touring in Europe I stay off the motorways when I can. Seen some great out of the way places. Tasted some really great pastiserie cakes.....