Would you trade a 2V red Norge for a 4V?

[Pescatore]

First of all, I love my 2008 red Norge!  I got it third hand 3 years ago with 7k miles.  Now at 11k miles.

I've been tempted by some 4V 2016 Norge that keep popping up here and there.  They are either white or black.
I appreciate the raised instruments for easier reading, the oil cooler fan and improved heat shielding.
Hamlin told me it's 25% all around better bike than the 2V.
Did I mention I love my red Norge?  Do I dare wanting more?

The ones on sale near me don't have the top box, which is a must for the passenger and long trips.
The white color doesn't pop like the red one, to my eyes.
I'm not sure I would be able to do my own valve adjustment.  At least the later models don't have roller problems.
I hope everything else is similar to a 2V.

Anyone out there with a 4V Norge?
Did you upgrade from a 2V?  How did it go?
Any problems to watch for?  I think the 4V is pretty safe in terms of design issues.

Thanks,
Happy New Year!

[drdwb]

Well you could have both,that’s the obvious answer. But having a 2007 myself, I’d keep the red one.

[Huzo]

You’ve just got a case of the “I wants…”
How much would it cost you to do the trade ? Whatever that figure is, spend it on a decent ride and create some memories and history. I know that you’re aware that I have the same bike as you, mine has done 230,000 km and I would not trade it for a 4 VPC Norge if he GAVE ME $5,000 and threw in the 8V.
Tell me.
Would you rather stare at your 8V in your garage after spending USD 5,000 on a trade, or spend the same amount and take your red one to Mandello del Lario.
You have exactly the same bike as mine, I suggest stop wishing, make some memories, post them here.
What have I said wrong ?

[drdwb]

Actually: Huzo is correct. However he already has a Red one. Mine is the Silver/Gray colored one, and I always wanted a red one, but now that I’ve mostly sorted mine out I wouldn’t trade it, not saying I wouldn’t swap my Gray body parts for Red ones if they became available very cheaply, cus everyone knows the Red ones are faster.

[blackcat]

I’d do it just for heat management and the bike can be painted red.

[slopokes]

A wrap would do it….

[Gliderjohn]

The pearl white paint with the black accents look great in direct sunlight. The 8V is basically an improved 4V. The engine is a sweet thing with a nice kick from just under 5K rpm on. It will eat miles whether straight roads or full of curvy road in comfort and speed if desired. A few years ago I did a a 700 mile run in a day from KS to ABQ, NM with an average speed of 72mph with two gas/restroom stops and a 30 minute lunch included.
GliderJohn

[Bulldog9]

First of all, I love my 2008 red Norge!  I got it third hand 3 years ago with 7k miles.  Now at 11k miles.

I've been tempted by some 4V 2016 Norge that keep popping up here and there.  They are either white or black.
I appreciate the raised instruments for easier reading, the oil cooler fan and improved heat shielding.
Hamlin told me it's 25% all around better bike than the 2V.
Did I mention I love my red Norge?  Do I dare wanting more?

The ones on sale near me don't have the top box, which is a must for the passenger and long trips.
The white color doesn't pop like the red one, to my eyes.
I'm not sure I would be able to do my own valve adjustment.  At least the later models don't have roller problems.
I hope everything else is similar to a 2V.

Anyone out there with a 4V Norge?
Did you upgrade from a 2V?  How did it go?
Any problems to watch for?  I think the 4V is pretty safe in terms of design issues.

Thanks,
Happy New Year!

2X 8V owner 2014 Rootbeer Brown, and 2012 Pearl White. 

FWIW, I prefer the overall character and feel of the 4V motor, but the fairing/screen and suspension of the 8V are much better, so you won't find me on a 4V Norge. I do have a 4V Griso, and 1200 Sport, and even though I prefer the sound and feel of the 4V motor, the 8V is a game changer power wise above 6K RPM and totally spanks the 4V motors.

That said, it took me 2 years to get the 8V motor tuned where I liked it. It involved removal of the CAT (added Ago bypass pipe), Valve adjust and TB balance, Mistral exhaust, and custom Beetle Map.

Regarding the Oil Cooler Fan.  In 2 years and 13K miles, the fan came on exactly ONCE...... And that was after some hard riding in the summer and a sudden traffic jam with stop and go traffic. It is superfluous IMO unless you commute in the city and expect to be in stop and go traffic in the summer heat.

[PJPR01]

The 4V motor is effortless and above 5k is smooth as silk.  It lopes along like a big cat for hours in end.  The 2V is a little underpowered by comparison but does the job perfectly.  I have a 2V 2008 Norge and a 2015 4V Griso…both amazing bikes but different enough that the riding experience and engine are quite unique…not much overlap in my view in terms of feedback.  Both do require proper tuning to find the sweet spot…both are amazing bikes.  I wouldn’t sell either one of them.

If you have the chance to get a newer bike you can ride and compare and then decide if one becomes your favorite and let the other one go…or keep both for different riding experiences. 

[Pescatore]

Quote from: Huzo on December 31, 2024, 04:21:30 PM

You’ve just got a case of the “I wants…”

Guilty as charged.
Quote from: Huzo on December 31, 2024, 04:21:30 PM

How much would it cost you to do the trade ? Whatever that figure is, spend it on a decent ride and create some memories and history. I know that you’re aware that I have the same bike as you, mine has done 230,000 km and I would not trade it for a 4 VPC Norge if he GAVE ME $5,000 and threw in the 8V.
Tell me.
Would you rather stare at your 8V in your garage after spending USD 5,000 on a trade, or spend the same amount and take your red one to Mandello del Lario.
You have exactly the same bike as mine, I suggest stop wishing, make some memories, post them here.
What have I said wrong ?

All good advice, Huzo.  You seem to have a sharp aim for the infamous head of the nail.
I've taken long trips, but nothing epic like Europe or across USA.
I thought about having both bikes, but garage space would be a challenge.
My lady loves the white/black scheme, so one more data point.

What aggravates me about the 2V is the LCD display readability.  Partly from its poor backlighting and my aging eyes.
Most of the information is not important while riding, but sometimes I want to check the time.  I guess I can add a stick-on clock.
Until I fix the fuel level sensor, I rely on the trip odometer to contrast the fuel gauge.
I am guessing nothing changed with the 4V LCD... and the level sensor durability.

I need to sit on one of these 4V Norge and see if I feel any "sparks"  .... and yes, I'll work on romantic memories with my red one.

[Bulldog9]

Quote from: Huzo on December 31, 2024, 04:21:30 PM

You’ve just got a case of the “I wants…”

Guilty as charged.
Quote from: Huzo on December 31, 2024, 04:21:30 PM

How much would it cost you to do the trade ? Whatever that figure is, spend it on a decent ride and create some memories and history. I know that you’re aware that I have the same bike as you, mine has done 230,000 km and I would not trade it for a 4 VPC Norge if he GAVE ME $5,000 and threw in the 8V.
Tell me.
Would you rather stare at your 8V in your garage after spending USD 5,000 on a trade, or spend the same amount and take your red one to Mandello del Lario.
You have exactly the same bike as mine, I suggest stop wishing, make some memories, post them here.
What have I said wrong ?

All good advice, Huzo.  You seem to have a sharp aim for the infamous head of the nail.
I've taken long trips, but nothing epic like Europe or across USA.
I thought about having both bikes, but garage space would be a challenge.
My lady loves the white/black scheme, so one more data point.

What aggravates me about the 2V is the LCD display readability.  Partly from its poor backlighting and my aging eyes.
Most of the information is not important while riding, but sometimes I want to check the time.  I guess I can add a stick-on clock.
Until I fix the fuel level sensor, I rely on the trip odometer to contrast the fuel gauge.
I am guessing nothing changed with the 4V LCD... and the level sensor durability.

I need to sit on one of these 4V Norge and see if I feel any "sparks"  .... and yes, I'll work on romantic memories with my red one.

AFAIK, the Dash in the 4V Breva/Norge is the same as the 2V. The only difference will be age, and perhaps clarity due to age. The Dash on my 2008 Breva 1200 Sport is the same as the 2014 & 2012 Norge, except for the white face. Infact my 1200 Sport had a Norge Cluster when I bought it.

[Huzo]

Your red Norge is failing to deliver the spark that you desire, but it is not the bike that is wanting…
If it was the comparative lack of power, then a Ducati Multistrada would fix everything.
If it was the faint backlighting in the speedo cluster, then anything from Japan would solve your issues.
No.
It is because you are throwing money at a perceived deficiency in the bike, when the issue lies elsewhere. It irks me when people suggest the 8V Norge is a better bike because it has more performance (which it demonstrably does), but the implication is that the rider is somehow taking the bike to it’s limits and the machine is left wanting…
BS…
Keep your money, point the bike at the opposite coast of America and GO…!
If you can convince me that I would have enjoyed my bike more if it had 8 valves I’ll pay attention, but I’ve yet to encounter anyone on these pages who claims my Norge is sub par for touring.
It seemed just fine at John o Groats, Nordkapp, all of Europe, UK, 100,000 km in Australia…etc.
The first time your 8V lunches itself you’ll lament your decision…Keep the bugger.
BTW…
I posted here how to fix the fuel gauge issue.

[Bulldog9]

Your red Norge is failing to deliver the spark that you desire, but it is not the bike that is wanting…
If it was the comparative lack of power, then a Ducati Multistrada would fix everything.
If it was the faint backlighting in the speedo cluster, then anything from Japan would solve your issues.
No.
It is because you are throwing money at a perceived deficiency in the bike, when the issue lies elsewhere. It irks me when people suggest the 8V Norge is a better bike because it has more performance (which it demonstrably does), but the implication is that the rider is somehow taking the bike to it’s limits and the machine is left wanting…
BS…
Keep your money, point the bike at the opposite coast of America and GO…!
If you can convince me that I would have enjoyed my bike more if it had 8 valves I’ll pay attention, but I’ve yet to encounter anyone on these pages who claims my Norge is sub par for touring.
It seemed just fine at John o Groats, Nordkapp, all of Europe, UK, 100,000 km in Australia…etc.
The first time your 8V lunches itself you’ll lament your decision…Keep the bugger.
BTW…
I posted here how to fix the fuel gauge issue.

Agreed on all Huzo. The performance difference is most felt at the top of the rev range on the 8V motor, but few spin that high regularly, and the 4V is in my view far more tractable and enjoyable at the lower RPMS. I think the biggest improvement on the 8V is the fairing and suspension upgrades.

If I had a 4V Norge, I would NOT consider upgrading to an 8V. I'd address the suspension (if I found it insufficient) and keep riding. Buying new? I'd go for the 8V. 

[tazio]

The first time your 8V lunches itself you’ll lament your decision…

What does this even mean
Is a 2016 8v less reliable than a 4v ? How?

As for the OP's initial post, "4k miles in 3 years riding time",
 I'd stick with what you have and find the time to enjoy it more

[Huzo]

What does this even mean
Is a 2016 8v less reliable than a 4v ? How?

As for the OP's initial post, "4k miles in 3 years riding time",
 I'd stick with what you have and find the time to enjoy it more

I’d wager that there are more 8V’s reported to have failed or thrown up some mechanical malady than the 4V’s. Notwithstanding the flat  tappet thing, which I concede has now disappeared into the past.
They’ve either blown up, been converted or just not ridden enough to fail.
But to your other point.
If you threw money at a quest to get rid of what you see as deficiencies in your current bike by “trading up” and then the new one gives you some grief, you’ll only look back at the previous one and say…
“Jeez, at least the old one didn’t do that…”
There’ll always be something, it’s just like a long term human relationship, the perfect one does not exist but you’ll be the more satisfied if you chase down the causes of your discontent.
The moment I knew that I’d never sell mine, was when I did the wire wheels at 60,000 km in 2016.
How could you not love it…?
Mandello





Australia

[tazio]

Couldn't agree less with that first sentence.

I'm just sayin' why be the "8v boogy-man" when these have been sound and reliable mounts covering a multitude of miles since 2013...

[SemperVee]

   I do wish the digital readout was actual brighter & readable  and the oil dip stick easier to get to - and I need a NEW rear shock, at just a bit under 50,000 miles but no plans to let her go, even for a new anything else! 

 

[Huzo]

Couldn't agree less with that first sentence.

I'm just sayin' why be the "8v boogy-man" when these have been sound and reliable mounts covering a multitude of miles since 2013...

As mentioned, I do concede that a major proportion of the explosions of the first 8V’s were flat tappet related, so if I take those cases away then yes, the 8V does stand tall.
But the thrust of this thread is, should I ditch the old for the new….?
Please yourself I say, but you’re trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist.
Our O.P. Is just bored and is looking across the room towards a new flame, he shouldn’t beat himself up over it though…
We’re wired that way…(apparently) 

[Huzo]

   I do wish the digital readout was actual brighter & readable  and the oil dip stick easier to get to - and I need a NEW rear shock, at just a bit under 50,000 miles but no plans to let her go, even for a new anything else! 

 

I fixed the dipstick issue in the first week, with a Teo Lamers thing. It’s just a knurled cap on a tube extension from the lower crankcase.

[SemperVee]

 Huzo, Have not been able to find one nor do I have the lowers with a hole in it.  I could do that with my hole saw drill.  ** Not to steal this thread.

[Bulldog9]

I’d wager that there are more 8V’s reported to have failed or thrown up some mechanical malady than the 4V’s. Notwithstanding the flat  tappet thing, which I concede has now disappeared into the past.
They’ve either blown up, been converted or just not ridden enough to fail.
But to your other point.
If you threw money at a quest to get rid of what you see as deficiencies in your current bike by “trading up” and then the new one gives you some grief, you’ll only look back at the previous one and say…
“Jeez, at least the old one didn’t do that…”
There’ll always be something, it’s just like a long term human relationship, the perfect one does not exist but you’ll be the more satisfied if you chase down the causes of your discontent.
The moment I knew that I’d never sell mine, was when I did the wire wheels at 60,000 km in 2016.
How could you not love it…?
Mandello





Australia

After the $$ for the wire wheels you couldn't afford to get rid of it, too much skin in the game 

As for reliability of 8v VS 4v, logic says the simpler the lump the fewer things to fail, but there are many 8v with high mileage and no issues.

[Huzo]

After the $$ for the wire wheels you couldn't afford to get rid of it, too much skin in the game 

As for reliability of 8v VS 4v, logic says the simpler the lump the fewer things to fail, but there are many 8v with high mileage and no issues.

They owe me AUD 1,000
USD 670
Yeah Bulldog.
But just for a while there, every second time you opened WildGuzzi, there was another disaster story about an 8V that had done some damn thing. They just seemed…”frail…”
You just never heard of the old ditch pump doing anything  unless it was  startus interruptus.
Just perception I guess.

[tazio]

Me and my "frail" 8v GRiSO have covered over 100,000 km.
Repaires have been exactly 3 headlight bulbs at $5 a piece,
and 1 broke exhaust stud I replaced in 20 mins. for zero dollars.
Original plug wires, like the bike itself,  have never let me down.
Bought new in 2016, I've gone on a few multi-day trips, but it's really just my Day Tripper. Any time it comes out of the garage is going to be several hours of moderately aggressive riding. I never run to redline but pull through the gears to 7 thou often as
there is a whole 'nother world of excitement here that serves this platform well. I suppose if it was a TOURING bike I'd have many additional miles on it..
Don't be swayed by what you read on the net (including this account), and be double cautious about the information we pass on.
Enjoy YOUR ride gentlemen, whatever it's on

[yrunvs]

I've no horse in this race but in the case of 2v vs 4v from a strictly visual point of view you got to love those big ole silver jugs sticking out on the 2v especially the Griso.

[Pescatore]

Aaaaaahhh!  There is the Guzzi passion.  I was worried this thread was going to die young.
Thanks for the advice and POV, folks.

I hope I didn't give the impression that the 2V is inadequate. (BTW:I'm sticking with 2V.  Guzzi calls the new one Quattro Valvole, not Otto Valvole!  Please ignore this tangent.)
It has more power than I can handle.  It's not a factor in my quest.
I am lucky to have the hole for the dipstick.  I don't think an access panel would change the process much.  But feel free to discuss, Sempervee.
I appreciate having the top bin.  Most 4Vs I've seen don't.  That's another $300+.Sorry Huzo, I prefer the alloy wheels because they are easier to clean.
I wish I could log more miles, but work/life and NE weather get in the way.  My work commute is all highway, so not much fun on any bike.I agree I have a case of the grass seems greener on the other side contrasted with the devil you know vs the one you don't.

In the end, I decided $5k+ is not in the budget this year after having replaced my dying car.
Please forgive my human behavior.  I hope to redeem myself by fixing the stupid fuel sensor this winter.
I also remembered that direct sunlight makes the LCD readable without eye glasses.  Maybe there is an experiment to be tried.

Long live the Norge, of either generation!

[Bulldog9]

They owe me AUD 1,000
USD 670
Yeah Bulldog.
But just for a while there, every second time you opened WildGuzzi, there was another disaster story about an 8V that had done some damn thing. They just seemed…”frail…”
You just never heard of the old ditch pump doing anything  unless it was  startus interruptus.
Just perception I guess.

$1000/670 is a great price. I respectfully withdraw my suggestion 

The 2V lumps had a few issues early on with oil pumps and something else I forget , but are FINE motors. That's why I have a Griso and 1200 Sport with them.  The 8V motors really have only had the initial tappett issue and secondary impacts from it, but once sorted have proven to be as reliable as the 4V.

[willowstreetguzziguy]

I've no horse in this race but in the case of 2v vs 4v from a strictly visual point of view you got to love those big ole silver jugs sticking out on the 2v especially the Griso.

Same here. I love silver jugs more than black jugs and it could be when an object is light in color you can see the shadows as well as the highlights. But when an object like the jugs or an engine are painted black, the shadows don’t show very well. Being an artist, I notice those things. Black also shows dirt and grim much more easily.

[Bulldog9]

Same here. I love silver jugs more than black jugs and it could be when an object is light in color you can see the shadows as well as the highlights. But when an object like the jugs or an engine are painted black, the shadows don’t show very well. Being an artist, I notice those things. Black also shows dirt and grim much more easily.

I kinda prefer flesh toned or tanned jugs......

[Huzo]

See here’s the thing…
These motorbike gadgets are here for one purpose only, to make us happy. So in acknowledgement of that, you’d have say once you start looking elsewhere, you are already less enamoured than what is ideally so.
Therefore anything I say, or all the commonsense in the world will not change your  perception. No one here can tell you why you should be happy or satisfied, it is the pursuit of that satisfaction where the rewards lay.
Satisfied is believing you’re satisfied.
However, I could really fall for a gloss red liquid cooled Stelvio with wire wheels and polished alloy rims, sort of like  my V85.
But I can walk around a hundred bikes at a gathering these days and seemingly not “want” one of them, there  is a feeling that I’ve discovered with my red Norge that for me, only distance and time can forge.
Of course, being red does help.
Spend your 5 k and bring your  bike to Australia and we’ll go for a ride, this might hapoen

Italy

Australia

[Pescatore]

.....
Spend your 5 k and bring your  bike to Australia and we’ll go for a ride, this might hapoen

That would be an epic trip.   Added to the wish list.
I don't know if and when, but thanks for the offer.