Red oil can light and service triangle

[Oca Grassa]

2008 Norge. Went to start the bike this morning for work and got the red oil can light and the warning triangle w/SERVICE in the LCD display. Engine indicating running in limp mode, rough idle etc…

Only time this has occurred previously is if I stalled the bike. There upon all of the above would occur on restart. It would clear if I turned off the key, side stand down and put the transmission in neutral. If any one of those things did not occur, the warnings would persist as would the limp mode running.

This morning, nothing seemed to return things to normal. After 10 minutes of fooling about with the Norge, I gave up and took my S2R to work instead. Read plenty about the “triangle of death” and all. Presuming it could be a sensor, clutch or oil pressure or otherwise. However, I also read about oil pumps fracturing internally and causing the same warnings (legitimately in those cases)but hoping that is not the case here.

I do have a new oil pressure sender to replace the original. Could probably “steal” a clutch switch from one of the other bikes temporarily for diagnostics. I’ve read some post from other members here having the same or similar issue so I’m not going in blind. I’ll post again once I get it sorted out….or find the problem….

[Bulldog9]

The majority of the time this is the oil pressure switch. I've changed mine out on the Griso & 1200 Sport to good effect. I did not ever have a 'limp mode' condition on either bike.

I know the 1st Gen Norge had an oil pump problem and recall, but think that was just the 2007. But knowing how Guzzi Rolls, you could have a 2007 sold as a 2008. There is a VIN checker out there somewhere to check if your bike falls in the range.

Good opportunity to pull things apart, clean and re-assemble. If it is just the Oil Pressure switch, the issue should be gone. Clear all the error codes, and if you have GuzziDiag, do a deeper check, and reset of TPS, Fuel Trims, etc. You could also disconnect the battery, connect the leads and turn the key on to drain and clear the ECU.

Depending on how long the bike sat, you may have bad gas, or water in gas, etc.

[SemperVee]

  I had the same issue on my 07 Norge and changed out the Oil Pressure sensor and cured it.  You can source a replacement locally via NAPA if need be.    *Huzo (here on Forum) told me about a trick to confirm this issue.
" If you are getting the red triangle of death on an ‘07 Norge, do this…
Ride down the road at highway speed.
Make sure no one is behind you.
Don’t touch the clutch and turn off the key.
Wait 3 seconds.
CLOSE THE THROTTLE and flick the key back on.
When the bike fires, the triangle will likely as not be gone.

Also check your  Norge Diagnostics for menu error codes.

[bad Chad]

I understand pulling the oil pressure switch is a serious PIA?

[brider]

I understand pulling the oil pressure switch is a serious PIA?

ACCESSING the switch is a PIA. Some have had trouble actually removing it, but it's do-able. The whole job is do-able, and gives you an excuse to look at the inner plugs while you're in there. My biggest hurdle was dis-connecting the factory connector for the gas tank fuel line (lots on THAT in these pages). I never could dis-connect it, so I cut the damn line and installed all new lines with a hand-operable disconnect under the tank.

[SemperVee]

I understand pulling the oil pressure switch is a serious PIA?

YES - definitely!  Deep into her bowels you need to dig into -  but can be done.  You will need a 21 or 22 MM open ended box wrench.  That is what worked for me.

[Oca Grassa]

I already have a new oil pressure switch….and replaced the inner plugs a few weeks back when I did the service on it. Only thing that didn’t get changed then is the air cleaner but that’s part of a different thread for another time.

A previous owner replaced the OEM quick disconnect with a brass fitting and moved an after market disconnect further down the outlet hose. I had to swap the ends around because the side with the check valve was on the injector side. Once disconnected it would pee fuel everywhere. Much easier to deal with now.

I’ll swap the oil pressure sender 1st as it seems the most likely culprit. I’ll post again once it’s done and any change in the Norge’s behavior because of it. Meanwhile, it’s been kinda nice to be out on the S2R….whole different ball of wax to the Norge.

[guzzisteve]

I understand pulling the oil pressure switch is a serious PIA?

It's just like your Breva, with correct tools you can just take off LH exhaust header and reach in. You have more room taking off tank.

[Oca Grassa]

I think maybe it is the oil pressure sender. Got home from work and tucked the S2R away in the garage. Thought I’d see what I could sort out with the Norge.

Key on, no red oil can light. No “Attenzione” triangle/SERVICE showing in the LCD display. Hmmmm. Either the Mandello motorcycle fairies showed up while I was at work or, the oil pressure sender was stuck and the cause of all the issues this morning.

As I have one already, it will be going in this weekend. Quite probably along with some new clamps & hoses from the breather box back to the crankcase. If all goes well, hoping that’s the last time I’ll be removing the tank for a while.

[Huzo]

It’s…the…sender….

[Oca Grassa]

It’s…the…sender….

No possibility that the Mandello motorcycle fairies showed up then?     

[Bulldog9]

I understand pulling the oil pressure switch is a serious PIA?

The only hard part is pulling the airbox. A heat gun on the airbox to TB tubes makes it much easier.  The rest is fairly P&P and a great opportunity to do a deep clean.

[Bulldog9]

It's just like your Breva, with correct tools you can just take off LH exhaust header and reach in. You have more room taking off tank.

I wish. The hams at the end of my arms are too big to fit. This is possible with thin or small hands.

[Huzo]

No possibility that the Mandello motorcycle fairies showed up then?     

As Tom Cruise said in Top Gun Maverick.?
“Yes…But not today.”

[Oca Grassa]

The only hard part is pulling the airbox.

I disagree. I don’t find it difficult to remove the airbox. Putting it back in? Whole different story.

I “think” removing the breather box could be less difficult when reinstalling. As I need to do some work there anyway, I may pursue going that route.

I know last time I had the airbox out for the stepper bypass mod, it seemed it would be easier to reach the oil pressure sender if the breather box bits weren’t in the way.

As the two are easy to separate, I’ll see if that’s the case.

[Bulldog9]

I disagree. I don’t find it difficult to remove the airbox. Putting it back in? Whole different story.

I “think” removing the breather box could be less difficult when reinstalling. As I need to do some work there anyway, I may pursue going that route.

I know last time I had the airbox out for the stepper bypass mod, it seemed it would be easier to reach the oil pressure sender if the breather box bits weren’t in the way.

As the two are easy to separate, I’ll see if that’s the case.

That was what I meant, particularly related to warming up the boots on re-install. Pulling meant/implied replacing too. Should have said R&R of the airbox. Removing is a bit of a Houdini event Replacing is a PITA. 

[Huzo]

That was what I meant, particularly related to warming up the boots on re-install. Pulling meant/implied replacing too. Should have said R&R of the airbox. Removing is a bit of a Houdini event Replacing is a PITA. 

If you remove the spring clamps before removal and re fit them after repositioning, it’s a lot easier.
Also some rubber grease where they enter onto the throttle bodies is a good thing.
Do make sure you push the boots fully onto the TB’s before tightening the clamps and run your finger around to make sure they have not puckered up around the back.
For heaven’s sake, don’t forget to attach the breather hose prior to installation.
There really isn’t much else to be afraid of…

[JoeW]

While it may be the oil switch, my vote would be to drop the lower then upper oil pan and have a look at the gasket. I had an 08 Norge that had the same symptoms, another shop replaced the sending unit and the problem persisted. The gasket between the upper pan and the block had blown out.

[guzzisteve]

I like Joe's answer, I'd do both!!

[Oca Grassa]

While it may be the oil switch, my vote would be to drop the lower then upper oil pan and have a look at the gasket. I had an 08 Norge that had the same symptoms, another shop replaced the sending unit and the problem persisted. The gasket between the upper pan and the block had blown out.

Interesting! Were your symptoms intermittent? Like weeks without the light/triangle and then have them one day out of 5? Or were yours on all the time?

Thus far, it only has happened the one time…aside from the couple of times I’ve stalled it. If the oil pressure sender replacement winds up eliminating the problem I’ll look at doing the gaskets on my next oil change. Thanks for the tip!!

[Vagrant]

Those pan gaskets were designed decades ago when you dropped the pan and changed them every oil change. At 3000 miles or less. An 18 year old bike should have it done with the new HD gaskets sold by MG cycle, possibly others just for safety sake!

[JoeW]

Interesting! Were your symptoms intermittent? Like weeks without the light/triangle and then have them one day out of 5? Or were yours on all the time?

Thus far, it only has happened the one time…aside from the couple of times I’ve stalled it. If the oil pressure sender replacement winds up eliminating the problem I’ll look at doing the gaskets on my next oil change. Thanks for the tip!!

The bike needed to be ridden over 75 miles for it to happen, then it came on at a stop light.

[JoeW]

Those pan gaskets were designed decades ago when you dropped the pan and changed them every oil change. At 3000 miles or less. An 18 year old bike should have it done with the new HD gaskets sold by MG cycle, possibly others just for safety sake!

As you can see it had the thin black gasket, I won't use them on any bike!

[Oca Grassa]

Just finished with reinstalling the oil pressure sender. What a PITA. Took the breather box out….glad I did! Holy smokes what a mess. Looked like some one stored a jar of mayonnaise in there! 🤮





That isn’t even all of it. More came out when I sprayed brake clean in the breather. Some of the hose barbs were misshaped due to over tightened clamps. Got out the heat gun and softened the plastic enough to reshape them with a punch inside the hole.

Found the throttle linkage was dragging on one of the hoses too, so rerouted that one away from the linkage. I’ve not messed with any of that before so presumable that it was left that way from the previous service in 2023.


More later, after I get it all put back together.

[Huzo]

Anecdotal evidence says that overfilling the engine oil will overtime, contribute to airbox contamination from oil mist. It is a good opportunity while the ‘box is out, to get some spray cleaner into the stepper and check the hoses, along with the connection on the neutral switch at the rear of the gearbox on the top.
After a couple of excursions in there, it becomes a 40 minute job to remove from beginning, to 1 hour replacement.
You have learned pretty much everything you need to know about the process.
For what it’s worth, I spend some of that time pulling the alternator pivot bolt and adjuster pinch bolt, so I can walk away with the alternator.
With that done, you can almost climb in there..!

[John A]

Just finished with reinstalling the oil pressure sender. What a PITA. Took the breather box out….glad I did! Holy smokes what a mess. Looked like some one stored a jar of mayonnaise in there!!! [/url]
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That isn’t even all of it. More came out when I sprayed brake clean in the breather. Some of the hose barbs were misshaped due to over tightened clamps. Got out the heat gun and softened the plastic enough to reshape them with a punch inside the hole.

Found the throttle linkage was dragging on one of the hoses too, so rerouted that one away from the linkage. I’ve not messed with any of that before so presumable that it was left that way from the previous service in 2023.


More later, after singer it all put back together.

A better choice for cleaning is mineral spirits, it’s way more inert and won’t damage rubber, paint etc. and it’s cheaper. Around ten bucks a gallon. I put it in spray bottles.

[Oca Grassa]

More pics from the breather box clean out:






Had to go back & fix my earlier post as the pic didn’t populate correctly. Anyway, I do use mineral spirits but I needed something with some pressure behind it. The breather was out and on the bench anyway so nothing else was touched when I sprayed it out. Seriously that stuff was like pudding in consistency.

As far as the stepper motor goes, it is no longer part of the airbox “circuit” I plugged the hose tip on the airbox and routed a new hose up to the front fairing. There it connects to a valve and a tiny filter. I just manually open the valve for cold start and turn it off when the high idle sequence is complete.






I am fairly certain the oil pressure sender was the culprit in my previous problem. When I removed the old one, the plastic center was loose and wiggled about without effort. I got my new one from MG Cycle though it has a different connector. Easily remedied.

Pretty much it for the day. Hoping it’ll be a while before I need to get back under the airbox again. I’m thinking it’s probably a good idea to remove and clean out the breather box every oil change.

[Huzo]

I do mine every 10,000 km which is when I do the engine/gearbox/bevel drive oil change.

[Oca Grassa]

I do mine every 10,000 km which is when I do the engine/gearbox/bevel drive oil change.

That sounds reasonable. I commute daily though so maybe I should do it sooner. I feel like shorter commute rides is probably more contributory to build up in the breather box than fewer but much longer rides. IDK tho….the only other vehicle that I have experience with having this kind of mayonnaise like build up was a 1970s Ford van with a 300” 6.

[JoeW]

Did the oil pressure sensor fix this problem?