V1000G5 issues

[Mor]

Been really busy lately and didn’t get around to replying here. The sump spacer seems to have improved things but I’m not out of the woods yet.
Went for a decent ride and when I came back the nappy I had attached under the slot in the bell housing was soaked through. Decided to just bite the bullet and tear back into it and see what’s leaking in there.
Removed the clutch and sure enough there was a lot of oil behind the flywheel.
Decided to replace the seal, flange gasket and breather gasket in the hope that I won’t have to go back in there for a long time.
Ordered the parts and went about taking the flange off as suggested using set screws and bolts. Anyway, it broke. I’ve managed to get it out without having to tap it out from behind thankfully.
Just about to order a replacement but I’m unsure if mine is standard size, there are options for over and undersized flanges. What should my measurements be for a standard flange?
Thanks guys.

[Mor]

A few dirty pictures

[Mor]

Here we go, 54mm to 54.019mm. I’m getting 54mm on my manual verynear calipers.



post pics

[Stevex]

Been really busy lately and didn’t get around to replying here. The sump spacer seems to have improved things but I’m not out of the woods yet.
Went for a decent ride and when I came back the nappy I had attached under the slot in the bell housing was soaked through. Decided to just bite the bullet and tear back into it and see what’s leaking in there.
Removed the clutch and sure enough there was a lot of oil behind the flywheel.
Decided to replace the seal, flange gasket and breather gasket in the hope that I won’t have to go back in there for a long time.
Ordered the parts and went about taking the flange off as suggested using set screws and bolts. Anyway, it broke. I’ve managed to get it out without having to tap it out from behind thankfully.
Just about to order a replacement but I’m unsure if mine is standard size, there are options for over and undersized flanges. What should my measurements be for a standard flange?
Thanks guys.

Dont forget to check the cam bung, another known leak point. While you're in there put some JB Weld around the join.

[Mor]

Seems someone else has done the job with epoxy. Looks like it’s well sealed and I’m inclined to leave it alone.

[Mor]

In the diagram below, part#31 is the little steel dowel you can see in my photo beside the broken flange, correct? This dropped out when the flange came out, it can only go back in one position right? I didn't see where it was when the flange came out. I assume it will have to be installed on the new flange when it's going in?
What is part#38 between the gasket and flange?(Am I reading that right?)

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

In the diagram below, part#31 is the little steel dowel you can see in my photo beside the broken flange, correct? This dropped out when the flange came out, it can only go back in one position right? I didn't see where it was when the flange came out. I assume it will have to be installed on the new flange when it's going in?
What is part#38 between the gasket and flange?(Am I reading that right?)

Yes, #31 is the "oil dowel" and needs to be inserted into the new main bearing/flange before installation. There's only one hole it fits into correctly.

I'm not even seeing any #38 on any of the illustrations I'm looking at online. Maybe the illustration you're showing wasn't drawn correctly.

[Mor]

Thanks Charlie.

My plan is:
Put the new flange into the freezer for a day or 2 with the dowel inserted.
When I'm ready to install it I'll heat the case with a heat gun.
Smear a little blue Hylomar on both sides of the new gasket.
Place the gasket onto the flange and hopefully the flange will go in without having to tap it with a hammer and wooden drift.
Then bolt it in and torque up the bolts.
Then install the new Viton seal using the official tool and a smear of blue Hylomar around the outside of it.

Am I missing anything/doing anything wrong?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Thanks Charlie.

My plan is:
Put the new flange into the freezer for a day or 2 with the dowel inserted.
When I'm ready to install it I'll heat the case with a heat gun.
Smear a little blue Hylomar on both sides of the new gasket.
Place the gasket onto the flange and hopefully the flange will go in without having to tap it with a hammer and wooden drift.
Then bolt it in and torque up the bolts.
Then install the new Viton seal using the official tool and a smear of blue Hylomar around the outside of it.

Am I missing anything/doing anything wrong?

I've never found the need to heat/chill anything. I use a smear of oil on the bearing/flange and on the engine case so that it slides in easier.

Not a fan of Hylomar. I use Permatex 300 on the gasket surfaces and seal the bottom two bolts with Hondabond 4. I also seal the oil return pipe banjo bolt with the Hondabond.

I use four long M8 bolts as guides for the rear main bearing/flange. Slip them through the holes in the flange and thread them into the engine case. That way the bearing will be correctly aligned. The flat spot on the flange goes towards the breather pipe. I would replace the gasket and use sealer on the breather pipe as well.

I prefer to install the seal into the bearing/flange first, not after. I use Permatex 300 on the outside of the seal, a smear of oil on the seal lip and assembly lube on the bearing surface and crankshaft journal.

[Tom H]

Do what Charlie said to align the flange. The only thing I would add is that when the flange is close enough to the case, replace the long bolts with ALL the short bolts making sure they thread in easily. Sometimes I have found that the flange needs to be rotated just a hair to get them to ALL go in. You may need to gently tap the flange to rotate it.

BUT....I do not use the bolts to pull the flange fully in. Tap with a soft headed hammer until fully seated.

Tom

[Mor]

Just had a look at my clutch friction plates and noticed some oil on them spreading from the centre outwards. Saw some oil inside the gearbox input hub. Must be coming from the pushrod as there’s no oil anywhere around the seal on the box.
I have the 2 conical rubber seals on the pushrod, is the cure for this leak to replace them with the 6 o-rings?

[Mor]

I can’t find permatex 300 here. Is it a non setting gasket compound same as hylomar or different?
I was going to use some black high temp RTV silicone to seal the bottom 2 bolts of the flange.
Which would you recommend for the new gasket on the breather tube?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Where is "here"? It helps if we have some idea of your location (what continent is close enough). Permatex 300 and Permatex Aviation are virtually the same. They are a brown, non-drying liquid, comes in a small bottle with a brush on the cap. I find it at the local auto parts or on Amazon.

I use Permatex 300 on the breather pipe gasket.

Just had a look at my clutch friction plates and noticed some oil on them spreading from the centre outwards. Saw some oil inside the gearbox input hub. Must be coming from the pushrod as there’s no oil anywhere around the seal on the box.
I have the 2 conical rubber seals on the pushrod, is the cure for this leak to replace them with the 6 o-rings?

I've had the cones leak, so use the 6 o-ring stack exclusively now. I send them to anyone in the US for free. This will give you the dimensions of them. https://www.mcmaster.com/93125K19/

It looks like the nut securing the clutch hub is on backwards - the tapered edge should go towards the hub.

[Mor]

I'm in Ireland. Managed to find Permatex 300 locally, just back in stock today.
No luck finding hondabond 4 here, had to order it from the Netherlands. Should be here next week. Really don't want to do this job again so I'm not taking any chances.

[Moparnut72]

In the shop that I worked in for a bit that overhauled radials we used Permatex Ultra Copper. It sets up a bit but doesn't become permanent parts are easily removed later. One of my jobs was tear down when I got an engine that was assembled Yamabond or I guess Hondabond it was sometimes scary as I was afraid I would break a hard to find expensive part trying to separate. A set of matched cases would run a couple of thousand dollars or more. It would also cost the customer more for the overhaul because of the extra time for tear down and the miserable job removing that crap.
kk

[Mor]

Just want to confirm this as I’ve never done this job before.
The flat section of the flange goes where the breather is and the dowel goes in the hole beside the flat section and lines up with the hole in the case right underneath the cam plug. Am I right?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Just want to confirm this as I’ve never done this job before.
The flat section of the flange goes where the breather is and the dowel goes in the hole beside the flat section and lines up with the hole in the case right underneath the cam plug. Am I right?

Yes, the flat goes towards the breather. The dowel can only fit into one hole and not stick out.

[Mor]

Everything went according to plan for the rebuild, no drama.
Went for a ~50 mile ride and there was no oil around the slot in the bell housing. I left it for a day and then yesterday I balanced my carbs. Had a quick check under the bike and there was oil dripping out of the slot again. I put it straight back on the lift and pulled the clutch out again. Hard to say exactly where the oil was coming from but I tightened the flange bolts a bit more and re-sealed the bottom 2 bolts. Looked like oil might have been coming from the banjo so I re-sealed that too. Also removed the epoxy from the cam plug and sealed it with jb weld. While I was there I decided to apply some pressure through the oil filler hole. I could feel and hear air escaping through the air box which is reassuring but there’s oil oozing out through the top of the oil line that has the banjo in the bellhousing.


Is that to be expected?

[Tom H]

That tube is the oil return line from the breather box. If you have oil pumping out of it, one thing to do is check to make sure the banjo bolt at the bottom of the bell housing has it's pipe under the oil in the sump. If the pipe is above the oil level, I have read that the tube will pump oil out. With the oil pan off, IIRR the tube on the banjo bolt will be about an inch lower than the block.

Also, if you still have it apart. Try the air again but use some soapy water brushed on all the gaskets and seals to see if air is coming out.

Tom

[Mor]

The gearbox is back in and the frame is bolted together.
If I remove the 90 degree elbow hose connecting the breather tube to the breather box and try the same air pressure then it flows freely out the breather and no oil comes up the return line. Should the breather box be presenting some resistance? I’m wondering if oil was getting past the hose connections over the bell housing and getting into the bell housing via the holes for the pipes. Those o-rings are pretty hard.

[Tom H]

In the big tube, there should be a pcv valve #35. I don't know if it would cause your problem if it's missing.





That's an interesting question if applying air pressure in the large tube will have air coming out the small tube. I would "think" not???? I have never tried that to know for sure.

Anybody have an answer for this????

One thing that can cause a leak in the bell housing is if the rubber oil return line hose is loose or cracked where it connects to the small tube. Small tube could even have a crack, though not likely. Many have been fooled thinking they have a leaky seal when it was just the hose.

One think you might try to see if the banjo pipe is under the oil level is to remove the dipstick and apply air pressure to the small return pipe. Listening at the dipstick hole you "might" hear the oil gurgling? As I mentioned I read that if it's above the oil level, it could puke oil. I have never confirmed this myself, so I do not know if it's 100% true????

Tom

[Tony F]

A few comments:

Ive never seen o-rings fitted to the two breather pipes before, they are not shown in the parts diagrams in the thread.

The breather box appears to be sitting low which is straining the rubber elbow connecting the large breather pipe and the air box. Is this its final mounted position?

That is a standard airbox, is it clean inside? There could be 45 years of accumulated gunk in there which would not help engine breathing.

[Mor]

Tony, I noticed the missing o-rings too. I'm thinking about using some RTV Silicone at those points to seal up the bellhousing from the top. The breather box looks like the standard one to me. Air filter is clean. The rubber elbow isn't strained, it has that belly moulded into it. The 2 elbow hoses look new and I can't see any cracks or damage on them.
I soaked the breather box in my parts cleaner and blew it out. No change.

Tom, the PCV valve(Ball type) is there in the top of the big pipe and it's free. The air I applied to the crankcase was through the oil filler hole, not the breather. I could hear air escaping into the rocker covers from the breather box more than into the airbox. If that makes sense.

I had oil in the airbox again when I opened it up. It would have dripped from there again very soon, it had started to fill up the channel in the metal clip that joins the airbox and breather box.
It looks to me like when the bike is running, oil is being forced up the return line and making its way through the breather box and ending up in the rubber manifold to the carbs. The manifold is covered in oil inside.

I was thinking that switching to 10w40 might help. The 20w50 might just be too thick for my climate here, usually below 20 C.
Maybe that's creating high crankcase pressure and all of my problems.
I'll change the oil later and report back.
Starting to run out of ideas now. Have only owned this bike less than 4 months and it's spent most of that time on my lift. Wouldn't mind too much if I had a second bike or it was winter..