‘17 V9 Starting Issue Help

[Lowflying]

It’s been working great, but yesterday, turning the key to the ON position I got nothing on the speedo. No headlight, indicators, horn. No click or other sound when pressing starter switch.

Tried second key. Cycled kill switch several times. Exercised side stand and clutch lever. Trans in neutral.

Red light on speedo flashes.

Checked battery at 12.66 volts. Connections tight and clean.

Checked blade type fuses.

Running out of ideas…🤔

[guzzisteve]

They are made to be plugged in for diag. Check pins on ign switch, check & see if you have voltage on the fuses. Look up a good dealer.

[Dirk_S]

Check to make sure those battery terminals and the ground terminal to the engine are snug?

[Lowflying]

I’ll look for the ground. Battery terminals tight and clean.

Good ideas guys. I’ll follow up.

[Dirk_S]

Also—shouldn’t the battery read into the 13s? I’d be curious how low the battery voltage might drop when hitting the starter.

[Lowflying]

My newish car battery reads 12.7 v.

I’m no mechanic/electrician, so I googled it:

“A fully charged 12 v battery should read between 12.6 and 12.8 v when measured with a multimeter.”

But, any dissenting opinions welcome!

[Lowflying]

So, although my multimeter reading was ok, the guy at Batteryworld used his tester and the cranking amps were on the way down. Battery about five years old, so I bought a new AGM battery, as this would become an issue soon anyway.

Installed in bike. Still nothing.

Do these bikes have some hidden inline main fuse or are they all the blade fuses I see in two places under the seat?

[Kev m]

It’s been working great, but yesterday, turning the key to the ON position I got nothing on the speedo. No headlight, indicators, horn. No click or other sound when pressing starter switch.

Tried second key. Cycled kill switch several times. Exercised side stand and clutch lever. Trans in neutral.

Red light on speedo flashes.

Checked battery at 12.66 volts. Connections tight and clean.

Checked blade type fuses.

Running out of ideas…🤔

Is the fuel pump priming? You description suggests not.

You have power to the instrument cluster but not the lights?

This is a V7III right? Take a look at a wiring diagram at the relays. Compare what they control to what isn't working.

Let me know your answer about the fuel pump and I'll see if I can check out a diagram too after the kids are off to school this morning.

[Vagrant]

FWIW, the v7III had a habit of breaking the ignition wires off the switch because they were run too tight.

[DoubleGuzzi]

FWIW, the v7III had a habit of breaking the ignition wires off the switch because they were run too tight.

Hmm, my Triumphs had this feature too. Must check the Shiny when next in the garage.

[Lowflying]

Fuel pump not priming. Absolutely nothing happens when key switched on. No instrument lights, headlight, indicators, horn, etc. Starter doesn’t turn over or make a clicking sound.

New AGM battery, with good charge, good clean tight connections. Fuses look good. Reseated them.

I’ll check the ignition switch wires tomorrow morning. I’ve been looking for broken wires or bad connections under right side panel and seat. Maybe under tank next. 🤔

[Kev m]

Fuel pump not priming. Absolutely nothing happens when key switched on. No instrument lights, headlight, indicators, horn, etc. Starter doesn’t turn over or make a clicking sound.

New AGM battery, with good charge, good clean tight connections. Fuses look good. Reseated them.

I’ll check the ignition switch wires tomorrow morning. I’ve been looking for broken wires or bad connections under right side panel and seat. Maybe under tank next. 🤔

Ok, studied a wiring diagram a little this morning, if fuel pump isn't priming AND no lights or dash getting power you're talking about multiple relays not receiving power from the ignition switch.

I think Vag hit it on the head. Sounds like ignition switch.

[guzzisteve]

They are made to be plugged in for diag. Check pins on ign switch, check & see if you have voltage on the fuses. Look up a good dealer.

[Lowflying]

So, my electrical adventure continues. My local bike shop too busy to pick up my bike. Maybe next week.

In the meantime, I’m doing what I can and learning about this bike.

Summary of what I’ve done/tried:

New AGM battery. Charged. Voltage checked. Connections clean and tight.

Ground to motor, cleaned up and tightened.

All fuses replaced. Fuse block cleaned with contact cleaner.

Ignition switch inspected, wires coming out look good. Sprayed some contact inside, exercised with key several times. Tried both keys.

Kill switch - contact sprayed inside, exercised numerous times.

Generally looked for loose wires and checked where they connect.

So, still left with this situation: red light flashes on dash with key off, as per usual. Turn key to on, no dash lights, no fuel pump sound, no horn, no indicators, no headlight, no taillight, no hazards, no start, no clicking sound, nada.

I’m at a loss. I’m giving up and next week my mechanic will pick up the useless (but still good looking) lump of metal.

Maybe, if I’m feeling energetic, I’ll dive deeper into the ignition switch…

[Dirk_S]

Time to break out the multimeter and run some voltage and resistance testing on those wires, I’d say.

[Kev m]

You didn't really test the ignition switch.

Unplug connector and check that power is available at the proper wire to the switch on the harness side. If no power, check harness for opens.

If it is, check continuity between that wire on the switch side and the wire(s) that should be hot with the ignition on. If no continuity, switch or harness on switch side is bad.

You can also check the switch by unplugging something further down stream that should be hot with the ignition on and check for voltage there with the key on. But you sorta have already done this because nothing is working down stream of the switch.

Another test, that's not perfect but can reveal a problem is to turn the key on and gently wiggle the switch harness around the connector. If power comes in intermittently the problem is the harness or connector.

Also, you can turn switch on and tap the switch housing gently with a tool. If power comes on intermittently while tapping the problem is the internal switch terminals.

[Vagrant]

You never responded to the "check the relays." See if there is power up there and rotate them all forward one. Clean and deoxit them also. They are under the gas tank. I don't know if there is main fuse that powers everything up. Check the diagram.

[Kev m]

You never responded to the "check the relays." See if there is power up there and rotate them all forward one. Clean and deoxit them also. They are under the gas tank. I don't know if there is main fuse that powers everything up. Check the diagram.

There are THREE different relays (Light, Starter, EFI or Light Logic, Relay De Demarrage, and Injection Load Relay in Guzzi-Speak). Anyway, they don't all go bad at once.

Fuses, it's not like many JAPanInc. products where the main fuse is remote on the starter relay, the 30-A main is one of the 6 in the fuse box on the V7III.

I'm looking at the diagram again now. The Key Switch is much more simple than many - only two wires - one in and one out.

Red/White is fed by the main fuse directly from the battery. It also powers two of the other fuses in the box from the other side of the main (the Instrument Panel/Indicators 5A fuse and the MIUG3 5A fuse). But both of those are controlled by relays before they get that power.

Anyway Red/White from the main fuse connects to the Key Switch Orange Wire.

When the key is turned on the power from that circuit goes through the switch to the Green wire which in turn connects to the Green/Black wire in the harness side of the Key Switch connector.

THAT Green/Black wire powers the three 15A fuses (A: Brake Lamp/Position Lamp/Horn, B: Low-Beam/High Beam, C: ECU/Engine Stop/Dash/Ignition/EFI Relay)

[bad Chad]

I had a very similar experience a couple weeks ago on my v9.  I went to start and unlike yours, it went through all the motions, cranked over twice, and then nothing, completely dead.  I cycled through turning the ignition on several times, but no electric activity at all.  After looking at a few things, I wiggled the fuses in the fuse block, didn't even remove the rubber cover, hit the start switch and it worked like nothing ever happened.  I ran the bike something like 12 times since, and have had no such incidence since.

[Lowflying]

Thanks for all the input from the experienced Goose Guys.

I will reread, take some notes and go down to the garage and work through the list of suggestions.

[Crashcraddock]

Another area worth checking is the LHS switch gear, ie check the connecter and also voltage test the wires going to it. I know the alarm/immobiliser runs through it.  I inadvertently crimped a wire in mine once causing the bike to not want to work.  It wasn't quite the same as I got an alarm warning on the dash, but it's clearly involved in all this business.  Also, check your kickstand switch, just in case.

[Lowflying]

Thanks Crash.

[Vagrant]

Another area worth checking is the LHS switch gear, ie check the connecter and also voltage test the wires going to it. I know the alarm/immobiliser runs through it.  I inadvertently crimped a wire in mine once causing the bike to not want to work.  It wasn't quite the same as I got an alarm warning on the dash, but it's clearly involved in all this business.  Also, check your kickstand switch, just in case.

This is a 17. There is no immobilizer.

[bad Chad]

What makes you think their is no immobilizer?

[Dirk_S]

This is a 17. There is no immobilizer.

The owners manual from 2016 mentions the immobilizer:

[bad Chad]

He’s a Vagrant, what could we expect?  Ha ha!

[Vagrant]

There is no chip key, no flashing red light like the v85 when first parked. 

[bad Chad]

Yes there is.  The key is chipped, and the red immobilizer light flashes on the clock, just like any other post 2005 Guzzi.  It's in my garage flashing away as I write this.

[Kev m]

Yes there is.  The key is chipped, and the red immobilizer light flashes on the clock, just like any other post 2005 Guzzi.  It's in my garage flashing away as I write this.

Interesting.

Guzzi being Guzzi again I think we've run into another problem with their tech info and a lot of people here, including myself, have been assuming that early V9 is the same (electronically) as the V7III

Neither of the service manuals I have for the V9 have wiring diagrams. HOWEVER one of them does show an immobilizer/anti-theft device connector and antenna in the electrical system section. So though I never doubted Chad, there's more info on it.

Here's where it gets weirder. I have a V7III, it doesn't flash anything on the dash, there's no mention of an immobilizer in the owner's manual or service manual, and AFAIK there's no chip in the key. BUT the V7III Wiring Diagram from Greg Bender's site (that I used earlier in this thread for the circuit testing) DOES LIST an Anti-Theft Device ECU pinout and shows the following:

*Anti-Theft Pre-Installation
*Anti-Theft LED

So my assumption was either that SOME markets got anti-theft stock OR the wiring is there and it could be installed as an accessory.

Either way it sounds like the early V9's got it stock.

OP - use my earlier wiring checks with caution in case the V9's are different, but I have no diagram with which to check.

[Vagrant]

I bought my 17 V7III new. It's never asked for a code, it does not have a flashing light on the dash.
Kev must be right. V9 is the odd duck.