Norge Charging at 13.0 Volts - seems low

[PJPR01]

Norge Owners,

By any chance can you confirm what your bike is charging at when running?

I'm seeing 13.0 volts, feels like at least 1 volt low...my Griso is charging at 14.2.

Feels like I'm due for a generator replacement (I don't even see it listed as an alternator in the manual).

My understanding is that the voltage regulator/rectifier is embedded in the generator and is not a replacement part per se, is that correct?

Thanks!

[DoubleGuzzi]

I'm seeing 13.0 volts, feels like at least 1 volt low...my Griso is charging at 14.2.

That is too low, barely raising battery capacity, however where are you measuring this from?

[PJPR01]

That is too low, barely raising battery capacity, however where are you measuring this from?

Thanks for the confirmation.

I've got a voltmeter I am measuring directly to the battery when the bike is running, shows me 13.3 to 13.4.
I see it on Guzzidiag as well when connected showing 12.9 to 13.0 as it fluctuates on display.
I've got a digital voltmeter stuck in the charger under the seat with a digital read out as well showing 12.8 to 12.9.
The dashboard itself reads 12.4 to 12.5 depending on RPM's.

I would say the measurement across the battery terminal may be the most accurate, I would hope, but that still seems low to me vs. what it should be.

As far as I know there's no adjustment of the belt possible, I had the belt replaced a few years ago at MPH but I suppose it's worthwhile checking again to see if it is due again. 

Thanks!

[Huzo]

The belt is easily adjustable. The alternator probably needs brushes. How many kilometres has it done ?
Take the alternator off and spin it up on a test rig, there’s not much involved in that, I did mine a year ago.

[guzzisteve]

Take it to a car alt shop, rebuildable. It's a car alt & cost about $120 for new bearings & reg. Unless you buy used bout same price.

[SemperVee]

 Hi Paul,  My Norge dash reads low also, just took voltage reading at battery and much higher.  3000 rpm throttle reading 14.6 volts and dash says 13.2.

[PJPR01]

Hi Paul,  My Norge dash reads low also, just took voltage reading at battery and much higher.  3000 rpm throttle reading 14.6 volts and dash says 13.2.

Thanks Mike...wow 14.6 measured at the battery?  Then I am definitely low.

[PJPR01]

The belt is easily adjustable. The alternator probably needs brushes. How many kilometres has it done ?
Take the alternator off and spin it up on a test rig, there’s not much involved in that, I did mine a year ago.

Thanks Peter...will check on the procedure to do that on the belt adjustment and brushes.  To get it out...presumably I need to go in from the front, remove exhaust header to get some room in there.  Any tricks on aligning the pulleys or other unique knowledge on pulling it out and replacing it or just straightforward mechanically?

Bike has 58K miles, so almost 92K kilometers equivalent. 

[PJPR01]

Take it to a car alt shop, rebuildable. It's a car alt & cost about $120 for new bearings & reg. Unless you buy used bout same price.

Thanks Steve...will check on that.  The only place I have seen that could order it so far is AF1 to arrive mid July for about $180 USD, haven't found any other sources yet for used.  Stein Dinse wants over 500 Euros...must come with diamonds at that price!

[Huzo]

Thanks Peter...will check on the procedure to do that on the belt adjustment and brushes.  To get it out...presumably I need to go in from the front, remove exhaust header to get some room in there.  Any tricks on aligning the pulleys or other unique knowledge on pulling it out and replacing it or just straightforward mechanically?

Bike has 58K miles, so almost 92K kilometers equivalent.

Tank off, airbox out.
Black cover off front of the engine.
Loosen adjustment off and remove pinch bolt at top right side…(helps if you remove the 4mm mounting bolts for right hand coil…)
Remove alternator pivot bolt nut (15 mm) You need to hold the head with large Allen wrench.
Unplug alternator harness wires.
Walk away with alternator.

[PJPR01]

Got it...crystal clear.  Thanks Peter!

Before I do the removal, wonder if I could also try tightening the tension a bit and see if that makes any difference on the voltage output.  If not, out she comes for a rebuild.

[pehayes]

Nobody has commented about the instrument.  Have you used this same meter on a known good vehicle?  Reasonably high numbers or similar low numbers?  Have you tried a different instrument on this same bike?  Eliminate all options.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[DoubleGuzzi]

3000 rpm throttle reading 14.6 volts and dash says 13.2.

For battery terminal voltage, 14.6 is about the maximum I'd like to see (given the inaccuracies of measurement) and allows for some headroom, up to 14.8V.
Before going to a lot of expense, focus on the output from the regulator connector(s), just in case it's poor connections somewhere along the way.
Seems like you have plenty of good advice on remedies. 

[PJPR01]

Nobody has commented about the instrument.  Have you used this same meter on a known good vehicle?  Reasonably high numbers or similar low numbers?  Have you tried a different instrument on this same bike?  Eliminate all options.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Yes...I used the two voltmeters on my Griso as well to compare to the Norge, very different voltage outputs between the two bikes.  Good thought...that's the advantage of having multiple bikes in the garage.  Thanks!

[Huzo]

Got it...crystal clear.  Thanks Peter!

Before I do the removal, wonder if I could also try tightening the tension a bit and see if that makes any difference on the voltage output.  If not, out she comes for a rebuild.

Can’t hurt I guess, but I’ll bet my ass that your issue is not there. A loose belt would be squealing like a stuck pig.
Could be brushes in the alternator, mine has done 220,000 km and has recently been checked…
It’s still ok.
BTW..
If you are removing the front black engine cover, it also helps heaps if you take out the single top bolt on the oil radiator and lift it up off its rubber mounts.
That allows you to swing the cooler away.

[Ncdan]

I don’t recall you saying at what RPM you are taking the reading at??

[Pescatore]

And to eliminate one more variable, what's the state of the battery?
Maybe swap it with the Griso, temporarily.

[PJPR01]

I don’t recall you saying at what RPM you are taking the reading at??

At 3-4 k is what I was testing for max voltage readings, although I noticed that It doesn’t change more than 0.1 to 0.2 volts at 3-4k RPM vs at idle.  I suppose that’s a good indication that the charging system is truly worn out.

Should have the alternator out today, got the tank and air box off last night.  Luckily I don’t see any chafed wires or connections that are burnt or otherwise crimped wires.  Hoping the refresh of the alternator does the trick…will see!

[PJPR01]

And to eliminate one more variable, what's the state of the battery?
Maybe swap it with the Griso, temporarily.

Brand new and fully charged.  That I replaced just two weeks ago…thanks!

[DoubleGuzzi]

The stripdown makes the 'bars look like ape hangers!   

[Stevex]

I find it weird (as in funny) how much advice for faults like this, people dive in and tell owners to just replace this or that.
Whatever happened to fault diagnosis?
First thing I'd do is check the alternator out put i.e the 3 yellow wires. (Dont tell me, Guzzi's are a different colour) From idle up to 4-5k rpm each should supply AC voltage from approx 30v up to a max of around 80v. That will tell you immediately whether the alternator is functioning normally; if not do a continuity check on each wire. If it is, the regulator rectifier would be the obvious next stop.

Before going to a lot of expense, focus on the output from the regulator connector(s), just in case it's poor connections somewhere along the way.

This is the only logical advice I've read on this thread so far.

[Huzo]

I find it weird (as in funny) how much advice for faults like this, people dive in and tell owners to just replace this or that.
Whatever happened to fault diagnosis?
First thing I'd do is check the alternator out put i.e the 3 yellow wires. (Dont tell me, Guzzi's are a different colour) From idle up to 4-5k rpm each should supply AC voltage from approx 30v up to a max of around 80v. That will tell you immediately whether the alternator is functioning normally; if not do a continuity check on each wire. If it is, the regulator rectifier would be the obvious next stop.
This is the only logical advice I've read on this thread so far.

Well yes Stevex, but we all tend to use the particular skills that we possess and not everyone would know what you just explained.
I didn’t think my advice was illogical, because while old mate had the alternator off and at the sparky for checking, he could very easily clean his throttle bodies and lubricate his stepper pre emptively.
So there was some logic in my suggestion.
I do agree that checking the output as you describe is clearly the way to go and that would be what Kiw Roy would do, but he has way above average electrical skills as I expect you do also.

[DoubleGuzzi]

In my defense, I was trying to go step by step - I'm a believer in fixing the source not the symptom. We had started at the battery, move to regulator, then on to alternator. Stevex is spot on in this regard. (Ducati M600 is notorious for poor connections from the alternator to rectifier/regulator.)

[Throwing money at a problem is all too common, which is surprising for a marque that originates from simplicity, workhorse and longevity traits.]

[PJPR01]

Open heart surgery so far successful…the alternator has been removed.  Took it to Autozone to get it tested. They don’t have the right connector…will find a dedicated alternator repair shop near me.

In the meantime…inner spark plugs and some degreasing of the body and engine can occur with all of the Tupperware removed.

Not too bad to get the alternator out…thanks Peter for the step by step sequence!  Top notch!

The belt was tight and still in perfect shape…no dust or fraying.  All Connectors look good and no frayed wires so far found.  Throttle bodies had a bit of oil on the air box side…easily cleaned up…very light misting of oil at the bottom of the air box but not much at all.

Even had time for a few hours ride on the Griso today! The Norge is jealous of the 14.1 volt output of the Griso!

















.

[DoubleGuzzi]

Rather than skulking in the trees, the Griso should be turned around ready to pounce the sporty 4-wheelers!
That's quite some chunky alternator: reckon you'd find them under a Fiat/VW bonnet.

[blackcat]

How many miles on the Norge?

[PJPR01]

How many miles on the Norge?

58K miles so far...with plans to get to 150K at least, although I have to divide my time amongst 2 other Guzzis and a Honda Goldwing Bagger as well.

The alternator looks like OEM, now to find a suitable repair shop so I can test it, and then hopefully rebuild it.

I am curious whether this 1 volt of lower charging will make any difference in the performance of the bike, theoretically it should run like a Titan rocket afterwards!

[DoubleGuzzi]

I am curious whether this 1 volt of lower charging will make any difference in the performance of the bike, theoretically it should run like a Titan rocket afterwards!

You might get a stronger spark at the plugs (due to higher voltage to the coils) but don't hold yer breath. 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Your profile lists a 2008 Norge

I don't see wiring for a 2008 but here's a Griso of that year
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2008_Griso_8V.gif

I wonder if its possible the feed from the headlight relay is low, i think that provides excitation to the alternator from the headlight relay.

The diagram shows a GPS coupling (7) measure voltage from there to Battery Positive, it should read quite low e.g. < 0.2 Volts.

I suggest you try a new temporary wire from the alternator L terminal to touch on the battery, any change in Voltage?

[Huzo]

I’d just spin it up on a test rig and have a look how many electrons come bubbling out…