The ECU landscape for early FI Guzzis

[vignelli]

Hi yall, I was a member here a decade+ ago and left my account dormant, so I'm starting from scratch.

I've bought a Centauro and I'm researching the ECU. I've read a few threads with the different solutions mentioned but couldn't find a recent summary of them all. I'm a bit green here, but I'm familiar with MaxxECU as I'm using it on my Alfa GT. Maps are freely shared in that world so we tend to choose the ECU platform based on local tuner's preference.


Here's how I understand our options (with plenty of newby assumptions):

• Stock Marelli ECU - live with "the stumble". Or else have someone who knows what they're doing flash the ECU with fueling/advance maps that they like. Or have someone make a chip for you.
  
• Will Creedon chip - Remove a chip from your Marelli and insert Will's. Get the maps that Will dyno developed onto your ECU. I also assume his maps aren't otherwise shared freely (perhaps he sells his base maps?)
• Cliff Jefferies MyECU - A full ECU replacement, tailored to replace the Marelli unit without fuss. Plug and play with harness, calibrate your sensors, and run the maps Jefferies likes for you bike. Presumably different than Will's maps. Appears to support DIY road tuning and closed loop data logging for fueling refinement. I've found dyno operators to be picky about which ECUs they will work with, so not sure I could get on a dyno with this.
• Full aftermarket - A decent unit like the MaxxECU mini is double the cost of MyECU, but they have wide dyno support and the tuning software is great. Unless you can buy one of the base maps above, you are starting from scratch and doing everything on a dyno.

It seems like many are happy with Will's maps, and others didn't get a great tune until they got a MyECU (possibly some Marelli hardware glitches to fault). It even sounds like some did both, although it wouldn't be clear to me which maps they'd be running.

Is the only way to get Will's And Cliff's maps to buy both units?

[guzzisteve]

I been tuning that 16M ECU since day one and I believe you need a chip maker and I haven't seen anyone download anything into it. I also have a MyECU from Cliff & run open loop. Seems no one out there runs a P8 MyECU cept Cliff & I and he does closed loop. So I started with his map & modified it, then made my own w/no dyno. I replaced the chips in both P8 & 16M when they were available. Never had an issue tuning any glitches out w/o a dyno. 15M is downloadable & newer ECU's are too. 
It all depends on what's out there now days & how your bike is set up w/intake & exhaust. Most I did had no airbox & open exhaust not stock
I'm also retired now & worked with the dealer equipment so don't know about aftermarket ECU's cept MyECU
Talk to the Guy's on COG or V11LeMans forum they know who's doing what nowdays.
GOOD LUCK in your search.

[pauldaytona]

Other option, use a Marelli 15m, it's a bit smaller unit, but can be written with maps. So you need no chips getting burned.
The air pressure sensor is inside, so you loose that.
And the connector is a 26 pin superseal, or cut the stock one off the loom, and crimp contacts for the new connector on. Or find the injection loom for a v11 or one of the cali's that have the 15m.

[vignelli]

I replaced the chips in both P8 & 16M when they were available.

Does this mean the Will Creedon chips are NLA? That would certainly limit my options.

Other option, use a Marelli 15m, it's a bit smaller unit, but can be written with maps.

It appears you can edit maps on the 15M with some combination of GuzziDiag and TunerStudio. In that case I guess you're just choosing between that hacked Marelli ecosystem and Cliff's custom ecosystem. I also noticed since my first post that there is a myECU forum with a couple published Centauro maps.

I am keeping my eye on the COG forum, hoping it comes back online soon. I do wish there was an archive somewhere!

[PeteS]

Have you ridden the bike yet and does it have the stumble? I would be surprised if someone hasn’t already done something with it already. They were almost unrideable stock.


Pete

[vignelli]

I haven't, I'm picking it up later this week. Given how deep I've had to dive with the Alfa ECU it's just top of mind, wanted to know what's out there for the Guzzi. I'm not specifically worried about the stumble, I'll likely want control over fueling/ignition maps either way.

[PeteS]

The original CPU came with a Eprom map. To change it you have program another chip or replace the CPU all together.
I am not aware of a Power Commander for this bike like one that was available for P8s used in the EVs of that era.
Pete

[guzzisteve]

Does this mean the Will Creedon chips are NLA? That would certainly limit my options.

I think you can still get his latest, I don't have his info. I think he's still out there.

[Turin]

Which Centauro are you buying? There's been a few up for sale lately.

I'm pretty sure Will is still burning chips. Best bang for the buck IMO. 
Chances are your New Centy will already be chipped, and have one of his chips.

Guzzitech used to sell the Power Commander USB for these bikes. I had on my Daytona RS until I installed the C-kit cams and got a new C-kit chip from Will.
The Daytona RS chip may end up in my Centauro when I open it up.

[vignelli]

I bought the one Iconic was selling in LA, came from NorCal originally I believe. We'll see what's installed in it. I appreciate the input from everyone, it's good to know what the options are if I want more control over the maps.

I did leave the Power Commander out... I get the appeal of leaving the original ECU intact, but something about doubling (triple with ignition?) the number of ECUs in the chain overloads my simple brain.

[Wayne Orwig]

The original Centauro chip had a flaw in the code. It would often stumble. The factory never homologated and released the updated chip. But we got the factory code and spread it. About any after market chip will have the updated code that reduced the stumble.
Not sure if my chip burner still works.

[Turin]

The black one... very nice and very well bought.

COG is down, but there are probably enough guys on this forum who are familiar with Hi-Cam Guzzi's.

[vignelli]

Got the bike back home today after a two day ride on coastal/canyon roads. Popped the ECU cover and the chip has a paper label with "CentiX2" written on it. Google isn't turning up a verbatim match for that.

It does have a miss/hesitation somewhere lower in the rev range, can't say where for sure since it has a bouncy tach, but feels like 3k-4k. Engine didn't rev as freely as my carb Sport 1100, I assume that's not right either.

The biggest issue was a harsh transition between throttle closed and 1% open (in either direction). There's a sharp jolt to the rear tire each time you cross that threshold, no way to smoothly enter engine braking or apply throttle out of a corner.

It probably needs some sorting all around, it's been on non-op for 20 years. I don't want to judge the fueling/ignition just yet. Maybe a throttle sync, check timing and pickup/sensor clearance and whatever else might cause issues.

[bmc5733946]

Careful attention to correct (zero) throttle free play pays off hugely on the early high cams. Idle speed also plays a part in the herky jerky throttle business. You should be feeling a rush of acceleration above about 4k rpm, almost too quick to roll off before redline. They are great bikes once sorted. Have fun!

Brian

[sign216]

Hi yall, I was a member here a decade+ ago and left my account dormant, so I'm starting from scratch.

I've bought a Centauro and I'm researching the ECU. I've read a few threads with the different solutions mentioned but couldn't find a recent summary of them all. I'm a bit green here, but I'm familiar with MaxxECU as I'm using it on my Alfa GT. Maps are freely shared in that world so we tend to choose the ECU platform based on local tuner's preference.


Here's how I understand our options (with plenty of newby assumptions):

• Stock Marelli ECU - live with "the stumble". Or else have someone who knows what they're doing flash the ECU with fueling/advance maps that they like. Or have someone make a chip for you.
  
• Will Creedon chip - Remove a chip from your Marelli and insert Will's. Get the maps that Will dyno developed onto your ECU. I also assume his maps aren't otherwise shared freely (perhaps he sells his base maps?)
• Cliff Jefferies MyECU - A full ECU replacement, tailored to replace the Marelli unit without fuss. Plug and play with harness, calibrate your sensors, and run the maps Jefferies likes for you bike. Presumably different than Will's maps. Appears to support DIY road tuning and closed loop data logging for fueling refinement. I've found dyno operators to be picky about which ECUs they will work with, so not sure I could get on a dyno with this.
• Full aftermarket - A decent unit like the MaxxECU mini is double the cost of MyECU, but they have wide dyno support and the tuning software is great. Unless you can buy one of the base maps above, you are starting from scratch and doing everything on a dyno.

It seems like many are happy with Will's maps, and others didn't get a great tune until they got a MyECU (possibly some Marelli hardware glitches to fault). It even sounds like some did both, although it wouldn't be clear to me which maps they'd be running.

Is the only way to get Will's And Cliff's maps to buy both units?

I bought a MyECU decades ago, and still run it on my primary bike, an '09 V7 Classic that I big bored to 820cc.  The MyECU was terrific, letting me control aspects of the bike's operation through an app to my cell or tablet.  People trade maps, adjust them, etc.  Very nice, back then.  Now my unit isn't fully working and MyECU support is diminished.

The MyECU shop "upgraded" the software, leaving older units like mine, unable to communicate with the app.  I talked w their shop, and the answer is to replace the MyECU bluetooth adapter to a newer version, and program it to communicate between the MyECU and my tablet or cell.  I got the adapter, but ran into problems getting it communicate.  The adapter's software needed adjustment/rewrite.  The answer from the MyECU shop was "use ChatGPT to solve it."  Not very satisfactory.

My bike rides fine, and I'll deal w getting the MyECU unit working, during the winter.   It was a terrific unit to start with.  Hopefully I can get it resolved.

[guzzisteve]

Got the bike back home today after a two day ride on coastal/canyon roads. Popped the ECU cover and the chip has a paper label with "CentiX2" written on it. Google isn't turning up a verbatim match for that.

It does have a miss/hesitation somewhere lower in the rev range, can't say where for sure since it has a bouncy tach, but feels like 3k-4k. Engine didn't rev as freely as my carb Sport 1100, I assume that's not right either.

The biggest issue was a harsh transition between throttle closed and 1% open (in either direction). There's a sharp jolt to the rear tire each time you cross that threshold, no way to smoothly enter engine braking or apply throttle out of a corner.

It probably needs some sorting all around, it's been on non-op for 20 years. I don't want to judge the fueling/ignition just yet. Maybe a throttle sync, check timing and pickup/sensor clearance and whatever else might cause issues.

I used chips from Moto Int & FIM in AU sold in US at the time. Didn't make any notes on what they were tagged. Didn't know about Will C at the time.

[FarmallA]

FWIW this is the chip I found installed in my ‘97 Sporti.  I’m pretty sure it’s a Will Creedon.


It seems to still have an occasional 3k rpm hiccup, and an occasional stoplight stall.  But from I’ve read, the factory chip is almost unrideable.

I’ve made it much better the when I first got it. The most effective cure for me, after cam chain tensioner replacement, tps adjustment, and probably a few other things I’ve forgotten about, was valve adjustment to the Raceco specs (.008 intake, .010 exhaust). 





That’s all I got.

FarmallA
Steve

[Turin]

make sure your throttle bodies are synced before you mess with the chip. The white adjustment knob (visible on the left side) tends to rotate on it's own and can cause a snatchy throttle response.

[vignelli]

Careful attention to correct (zero) throttle free play pays off hugely on the early high cams. Idle speed also plays a part in the herky jerky throttle business. You should be feeling a rush of acceleration above about 4k rpm, almost too quick to roll off before redline.

I did notice there was a lot of throttle free play after I got home. I don't think that fully explains it... I was closing the throttle a hair's width at a time, and it would still jerk into engine braking. The bike does idle around 1200 which I figured was high. And I can see how a faulty TPS reading would confuse things.

Confirmed tonight that grounding the tach body didn't fix my bouncy tach. So looks like I'll be stashing this one and going aftermarket for the short term.

Will try yalls other suggestions, set valve lash, tps, belt tension. I'm going ahead and doing the oil pump (maybe more Caruso bits depending on what condition I find things in there) and the belts, so I can verify timing, pickup clearances, etc.

I'll hold off on myECU until I've seen how this chip runs with the rest of the bike in tune.

[vignelli]

make sure your throttle bodies are synced before you mess with the chip. The white adjustment knob (visible on the left side) tends to rotate on it's own and can cause a snatchy throttle response.

Will do. I saw Guzziology recommends a jam nut to hold it in place.

[Turin]

I'm a big fan of will creedons chips. I've have 3. I'm pretty sure he only charges $100 for the chip.
Cheap and easy.

[bmc5733946]

That jam nut is essential!  Known amongst some of us as the Shelby nut. Shelby Kennard was the parts guy at MGNA at the time and came up with the idea.

Brian