V85TT Sump extender

[vf84pc]

Do they make a simple extender for the V85TY? Or does the 850 motor have a larger oil capacity?

[Dirk_S]

I’ve not seen one of the usual suspects—GTM or Ed Milich—offer one for sale, so I’m of the understanding that nobody’s made a sump spacer yet for any of the hemi head small blocks.

But—it’s well-known amongst both owners and experts that the Guzzi small blocks inherently don’t burn much oil (attaching a sidecar and hauling a hefty friend for a few hours…different story).

Besides, don’t ADV bike owners like to carry fluids in reserve containers? Just pack an extra liter in its original bottle (lame, too cheap) or carry an aftermarket reserve like one of these bad boys that you can drive over with a tank:

[Kev m]

But—it’s well-known amongst both owners and experts that the Guzzi small blocks inherently don’t burn much oil

Disagree -

The 2TB models were "well known" for sometimes, unexplainably, suddenly disappearing their oil.

This is one of the reasons the spacers came to be in the first place. This is why I put one on my 2013 RIGHT AWAY.

Now starting with the 1TB models this seems to have stopped. I haven't heard a single case of it since.

BUT that's not to say a lot of them don't use oil. They carry it over the air cleaner, they burn a little here and there. They find their own level.

I haven't lost the habit of taking some with me on tours. Though I rarely have to add much.

Still I definitely add some between changes on both of mine.


OP - I haven't looked into a sump spacer for my MKIII, though the thought HAS crossed my mind. Frankly I LOVE the idea of an additional quart and I can see why the thought would make you feel warm and fuzzy on a V85 as well!

[ridingron]

Do they make a simple extender for the V85TY? Or does the 850 motor have a larger oil capacity?

I presume the V85TY was a typo to mean V85TT.

The sump extender will physically fit the V85TT motor. However, to get it to work, would takes a little work. The oil strainer/pick up would need an extension to reach up into the block to connect with the oil intake system. The smaller diameter boss on the spacer could perhaps be modified to connect the oil strainer pick up to the oil system intake in the block. It could also be removed clearing space for an extension to connect the strainer to the oil intake. It could be done but it will take some machine work. The sump spacers that were being sold cover dealing with the filter's new position with a spacer and longer bolt.

I am guessing the oil resevoir capacity would go to about 3 quarts/lt.

[Kev m]

I presume the V85TY was a typo to mean V85TT.

The sump extender will physically fit the V85TT motor. However, to get it to work, would takes a little work. The oil strainer/pick up would need an extension to reach up into the block to connect with the oil intake system. The smaller diameter boss on the spacer could perhaps be modified to connect the oil strainer pick up to the oil system intake in the block. It could also be removed clearing space for an extension to connect the strainer to the oil intake. It could be done but it will take some machine work. The sump spacers that were being sold cover dealing with the filter's new position with a spacer and longer bolt.

I am guessing the oil resevoir capacity would go to about 3 quarts/lt.

Excuse my ignorance. Are you saying the V85 has a separate strainer/pickup attached to the block unlike the other smallblocks where the pickup is part of the oil pan/sump so a sump extender just provides an extension to the existing pickup passage?

Or are you saying there's a difference in the pickup passage between the current or previous V7's and the V85 which is what makes the extender incompatible with regards to the pickup?

Or am I just completely missing what you're saying because I'm sitting in a brewery?

[ridingron]

Excuse my ignorance. Are you saying the V85 has a separate strainer/pickup attached to the block unlike the other smallblocks where the pickup is part of the oil pan/sump so a sump extender just provides an extension to the existing pickup passage?

     Yes, sorta. The V85 has a separate pick up made of plastic, with a strainer screen.

 item 11 page 51  https://www.af1racing.com/ProdImages/st3/GU312.pdf 

It sets where the strainer used to be on earlier small blocks. It goes to the side where the older sump pans had tubing that carried oil to the tube, leading to the pump. It has a "nipple with an o-ring that goes into a tube, I presume.

V85 type strainer/pick up:

  https://www.ebay.com/itm/296921544105?_


Or are you saying there's a difference in the pickup passage between the current or previous V7's and the V85 which is what makes the extender incompatible with regards to the pickup?

sumps:

         V85 type interior

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/114679861406?_

         Older sump:

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/257053755294?_

  sump spacer:

  https://www.ebay.com/itm/126603173765

This sump spacer comes with a longer filter screw and a longer filter spring.

Some other spacers have a longer filter screw and a spacer for the stock filter spring.

The filter remains stock and in it's stock place by using a longer screw and a spacer for the spring or the longer spring.

   
Yes, the pickup passage on the sump extender is incompatible with the V85 pick up/strainer. One may be able to use that part with
   modification but I think it would be easier to remove the passage completely and make an extension for the V85 pick up. The o-ring on the V85 pick up sets about 1" above the top surface of the sump pan





Or am I just completely missing what you're saying because I'm sitting in a brewery?

    Maybe. How many samples have you had? 

[janguzzi]

A small German company with a dedciated business for the small blocks offers this sump spacer:

https://gpiu.de/oelwannenzwischenring-20mm-v9-v85tt-set.html

[Kev m]

< Posted all sorts of useful info >

  thanks for taking the time!

And I only had a "few". 

[Dirk_S]

A small German company with a dedciated business for the small blocks offers this sump spacer:

https://gpiu.de/oelwannenzwischenring-20mm-v9-v85tt-set.html

BOOM! Good find! Martin H. comes in for the save!

[ridingron]

A small German company with a dedciated business for the small blocks offers this sump spacer:

https://gpiu.de/oelwannenzwischenring-20mm-v9-v85tt-set.html

Do you know if they ship to the U.S.?  From what I see, it doesn't appear so. Thanks for that information!

[Littlefield]

I went thru an order to the point of calculating shipping costs. It gave me a cost to the US.

[twowheeladdict]

I am not sure what the point of increasing the oil capacity is, but if it is a good thing, wouldn't an external oil cooler along with the extra capacity of the cooler and hoses be the better solution?

[Dirk_S]

I am not sure what the point of increasing the oil capacity is, but if it is a good thing, wouldn't an external oil cooler along with the extra capacity of the cooler and hoses be the better solution?

Multiple threads on here and other forums pointing out that it’s not an easy solution but also not really needed, including this thread from a couple years ago.

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=115130.0

Both Ed Milich and Pete Roper have expressed doubt that the small blocks can have oil coolers installed easily/efficiently.

Edit: Actually, looking at Martin H.’s website, it appears he also offers a sump spacer with ports for an oil cooler. I could be wrong, but it looks to be a Heron head spacer, not the hemi. Could be easy enough to tap the ports?

https://gpiu.de/oelwannenzwischenring-klmod-mit-oelkuehleranschluss-5.html

[ridingron]

I am not sure what the point of increasing the oil capacity is, but if it is a good thing, wouldn't an external oil cooler along with the extra capacity of the cooler and hoses be the better solution?

If you are referring to the German linked site for increasing the V85's oil by .5 lt, Yes, what's the point? Referring to a cooler on the V85, I wouldn't know where to begin. Maybe give it some thought.

If you're referring to other Guzzi motors, I don't know.

[SmithSwede]

This topic comes up regularly.  Some like the idea of a sump extender and greater oil capacity. 

I’m in the opposite camp.  The small block Guzzi has plenty of engine oil.  Remember that the transmission has its own separate oil supply. 

I’d say stick with the stock system.  If this really preys on your mind, check the oil level regularly.  You will soon see there isn’t much need to constantly check the oil level !

[Bulldog9]

1.7 l is not a lot of oil. My concern with my small block has always been The issue of breakdown under stress especially in severe duty, commuting and hot weather etc. That's why I've gone to a 3000 mile OCI on the Stornello with a full filter and oil change at 6,000 mi.

My last change, because all of my stuff was still packed I ordered an oil change kit from AF1 racing. It came with the new spec Castrol 10W60. Prior to that I have been using the motul or liquimoly. Overall I have been more impressed with how the castor oil has held up than the other two.

I have the sump extender but haven't put it on yet. One day perhaps. My main concern would be how low the sump would be. For street duty I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem, but any type of off-road rocks tree limbs etc I'd be concerned on a v85 for how low the sump would hang even with a bash plate.

[Kev m]

1.7 l is not a lot of oil. My concern with my small block has always been The issue of breakdown under stress especially in severe duty, commuting and hot weather etc.

THIS.

Hell Jenn's Duc is ~3L of oil.

Harleys are 3-5 qts.

Weren't our Guzzi big blocks 3+

My sump spacer on the MkI gives me warm and fuzzies.

[Vagrant]

This is a "whatever floats your boat" thread.
Personally if it needed more oil they would have added it on one of the last redesigns.

[Moparnut72]

If water cooling is the big thing, how come my V100 requires 5 liters? 
kk

[Dirk_S]

My main concern would be how low the sump would be. For street duty I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem, but any type of off-road rocks tree limbs etc I'd be concerned on a v85 for how low the sump would hang even with a bash plate.

Bingo. For off-pavement, I find it counter-intuitive to add a sump spacer, but if one is only buying an adventure bike for the adventure that lies ahead on the slab, then go ahead and spend the money. Since ground clearance is pretty important to me, I’ll stick to carrying that extra capacity in a reserve container.

[Kev m]

This is a "whatever floats your boat" thread.
Personally if it needed more oil they would have added it on one of the last redesigns.

Define "Need"

Can mechanically get away without?

Can benefit from larger margin for error?

Either way it's still a "want" for me.

[twowheeladdict]

1.7 l is not a lot of oil. My concern with my small block has always been The issue of breakdown under stress especially in severe duty, commuting and hot weather etc. That's why I've gone to a 3000 mile OCI on the Stornello with a full filter and oil change at 6,000 mi.

My last change, because all of my stuff was still packed I ordered an oil change kit from AF1 racing. It came with the new spec Castrol 10W60. Prior to that I have been using the motul or liquimoly. Overall I have been more impressed with how the castor oil has held up than the other two.

I have the sump extender but haven't put it on yet. One day perhaps. My main concern would be how low the sump would be. For street duty I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem, but any type of off-road rocks tree limbs etc I'd be concerned on a v85 for how low the sump would hang even with a bash plate.

Are you having the oil analysis done at each change, and the analysis report is corroborating your concern?

[Cam3512]

I’ve had my ‘20 V85 for over 6 years.  One of the first off the boat.  Thanks Jim Hamlin.   Does it burn a little oil, yes.   I don’t even know where it goes.  Sump extender not needed.  Move on.

[ridingron]

The 1.7 lt of oil just doesn't seem enough to me. I sat in a traffic jam moving about 5 mph for about 45 minutes. I got a warning light on the dash screen and I was having a lot of trouble shifting into neutral. I imagine the stock exhaust system was cooking the transmission oil.

I seriously doubt my V85 will ever see more dirt/gravel than in a parking lot. The lowered clearance from a spacer is not an issue for me. I like to hit the road and not have to worry about oil levels or if it's slowly being consumed. I buy them to ride them. I'm getting ready for about 2 weeks of riding my other bike in NC and WV. and will be covering ~3000 miles. The last thing on my mind will be oil consumption.