Piggy back device or ECU remapping?

[WildGuzziNicholas]

I have a 2007 750 Nevada classic that is running a bit lean, and I would like to get a piggy back device installed to enrich the air fuel mixture. It's pretty hard finding information on this. Can anyone tell me what devices have been used and work on the Nevada? I would like one that I can adjust via turning knobs or Bluetooth. Thanks

[TN Mark]

I’ve had a PCV on my Victory CCT for over 10 years and 90k miles. The bike was dyno tuned by ‘the’ master Victory technician in mid 2013. That bike runs perfectly each and every time I go out on it.

My other Victory has a direct to the ECU Techno Research Maximus tune on it. That bike also runs perfectly. The Maximus tuning option wasn’t available in 2013.

I suspect your Guzzi can’t be conventionally tuned directly to the ECU like the American brands can.
But you may be able to change a chip. I did that on a V10 Centauro many years ago.
Harley, Victory and Indian tuners can tune directly in the bikes ECU. I’m not sure your Guzzi ECU has that functionality.

[michaell32]

I doubt you can find a Power Commander for your bike unless you get really lucky.  Your bike probably has a 15rc ecu which can be tuned with the combination of tunerpro and guzzidiag. 

[guzzisteve]

Your Nevada is the same as a V7Clasic the 1st in the V7 series. It has an O2 sensor that controls the closed loop part of the map in ECU.   Beetle map is the best value for your money. You need cables & GuzziDiag Reader & Writer to install the map or know someone close that has the set-up.     You may need to find an older version of Power Comander if going that way. For that I would check with GTM in the store.
What ever you choose don't get a sensor fooler that goes on temp sensor or the like

The Beetle map has the O2 shut off so you can adjust idle mixture with software. Make sure you tell him what exhaust you have, open megaphones.

[WildGuzziNicholas]

Where do I find this "Beetle map for my model (15RC is the ECU)? GTM? Also, what store are you referring to? Sorry for the questions, I am brand new to this. Thank you for your reply.

Your Nevada is the same as a V7Clasic the 1st in the V7 series. It has an O2 sensor that controls the closed loop part of the map in ECU.   Beetle map is the best value for your money. You need cables & GuzziDiag Reader & Writer to install the map or know someone close that has the set-up.     You may need to find an older version of Power Comander if going that way. For that I would check with GTM in the store.
What ever you choose don't get a sensor fooler that goes on temp sensor or the like

The Beetle map has the O2 shut off so you can adjust idle mixture with software. Make sure you tell him what exhaust you have, open megaphones.

[guzzisteve]

Here is Beetle-----------------------------------

https://www.griso.org/


Here is Guzzi Tech Store--------------------------

https://gtmotocycles.com/collections/fueling

[WildGuzziNicholas]

Seems like the V7 has a single throttle body. My bike has one throttle body for each cylinder. I see there are maps for the Breva 1100. The Breva engine is identical to mine except for my engine is the 750. It looks like the Breva and nevada 750 engines are identical. Would the 1100 map work?

Your Nevada is the same as a V7Clasic the 1st in the V7 series. It has an O2 sensor that controls the closed loop part of the map in ECU.   Beetle map is the best value for your money. You need cables & GuzziDiag Reader & Writer to install the map or know someone close that has the set-up.     You may need to find an older version of Power Comander if going that way. For that I would check with GTM in the store.
What ever you choose don't get a sensor fooler that goes on temp sensor or the like

The Beetle map has the O2 shut off so you can adjust idle mixture with software. Make sure you tell him what exhaust you have, open megaphones.

[guzzisteve]

1st series V7 had 2 TB's same as yours, same as a Breva 750, they are all the same as Nevada   Single throttle body came later. 1100 motor is way different & different ECU

Just looked & he doesn't have a map for your bike.

Back to what michaell32 said------------------------- Pull your map out yourself & modify it with TunerPro software

[bmc5733946]

Beetle can supply maps for Breva 750 with aftermarket pipes and or intake changes. I have one in one of my Brevas. Beetle will tell you that the stock Breva map is already pretty good for a stock bike, and I will agree. If you have the cable and guzzidiag downloads, a stock map can be provided from many private sources. Unless their are changes to intake and exhaust, a modified map is really unnecessary. You may think it is lean but please remember it has catalysts in the mufflers that scrub the exhaust of any excessive fuel smell. It may smell lean and be a perfect mixture. If you have running problems those should be addressed first. To the best of my knowledge Breva and Nevada are same running gear in different clothing.

YMMV

Brian

[antmanbee]

PM me your email and I will send you the V7C map with the closed loop disabled.

[Dirk_S]

PM me your email and I will send you the V7C map with the closed loop disabled.

Assuming you mean sharing a copy of one of Beetle’s maps— Beetle’s maps are CHEAP compared to the competition, and he’s a great guy to work with. Why deny him some money for his efforts and reputation?

[WildGuzziNicholas]

I have a pretty free flow exhaust, I think someone reffered to it as a "open megaphone" which sound pretty accurate. I don't know what pipe it is because I bought the bike like that private party.

Beetle can supply maps for Breva 750 with aftermarket pipes and or intake changes. I have one in one of my Brevas. Beetle will tell you that the stock Breva map is already pretty good for a stock bike, and I will agree. If you have the cable and guzzidiag downloads, a stock map can be provided from many private sources. Unless their are changes to intake and exhaust, a modified map is really unnecessary. You may think it is lean but please remember it has catalysts in the mufflers that scrub the exhaust of any excessive fuel smell. It may smell lean and be a perfect mixture. If you have running problems those should be addressed first. To the best of my knowledge Breva and Nevada are same running gear in different clothing.

YMMV

Brian

[antmanbee]

Assuming you mean sharing a copy of one of Beetle’s maps— Beetle’s maps are CHEAP compared to the competition, and he’s a great guy to work with. Why deny him some money for his efforts and reputation?

I am not sure if this map is the stock map with the closed loop turned off in TunerPro that I did or the map that Beetle had available to download for free on his site. I have had this map in my files for 6 years or more. This is not a modified Beetle map. I am not trying to deny him anything.

[bronzestar1]

If one of these Booster Plugs will work for you, I'd just get one of these.  Plug and play, and be done with it.  I've used these on several bikes I've owned, on stock and modified condition.  It just basically enriches the fueling to compensate for the lean factory settings.  It's truly plug and play, no need for cables, download gizmos, maps, etc.  It's not tunable, so what you see is what you get.  But they've worked fine on the bikes I installed them on. 

https://www.boosterplug.com/shop/all-moto-guzzi-58c1.html 

[bmc5733946]

That is a lot more expensive than a free Beetle map! The Beetle  map for Brevas is free. The Lonelec cable is under 50$ I think. Guzzidiag is a free download. The risk with the fuel adding thing is, over fueling which can do serious damage to engines. I personally would never use one. They really are a kludge and are non adjustable. They cannot be right for every bike they can be plugged into. If your map has been rewritten before then the fuel adder may actually over fuel the engine etc.., etc.. just not a good thing. Using the Guzzidiag suite of apps you can see if the map has been altered by comparing it to a stock map. I would start there for a bike with unknown history and some existing modifications, etc.

Brian

[Dirk_S]

That is a lot more expensive than a free Beetle map! The Beetle map for Brevas is free. The Lonelec cable is under 50$ I think. Guzzidiag is a free download…

Beetle appreciates a donation in my experience.

[Dukedesmo]

No experience of remapping a Guzzi as mine is old-school carbs & points but, when I had some tuning work done on my Ducati 916, I originally went with a Power Commander. It worked OK but always had a bit of a 'splutter' under certain rev/load/speed conditions.


I then removed the PC and had the ECU directly custom mapped for which there are several benefits: more points at which fuelling can be altered, ability to alter ignition timing and, most of all being able to map the cylinders independently - Ideally V twins need to tuned as 2 individual single-cylinder engines to get the very best from them.


Whilst the ECU remap didn't make much difference to the overall power, it certainly made the bike nicer to ride.     

[WildGuzziNicholas]

I went ahead and sent Beetle a message from his website and FB messenger about a map for my specific bike. I haven't get a reply yet. Hopefully he is still around and able to help me out. Anyways, out of curiosity can anyone point me in the direction of others who can do Guzzi maps? Or does anyone have experience with Protuner and editing their own map pulled from their bike? Thanks.

[Dirk_S]

I went ahead and sent Beetle a message from his website and FB messenger about a map for my specific bike. I haven't get a reply yet. Hopefully he is still around and able to help me out. Anyways, out of curiosity can anyone point me in the direction of others who can do Guzzi maps? Or does anyone have experience with Protuner and editing their own map pulled from their bike? Thanks.

He’s an Aussie, so you’ll have to give him a minute to wake up ;)

[Tom H]

Some have used UpMap (IIRR) instead of Beetle. If you or someone you know is into tuning EFI cars there is Tuner Pro, I believe it's still free, to adjust your map. You can find it on Guzzidiag's web site at the bottom of the page.

Tom

[jrt]

Brian said "Beetle will tell you that the stock Breva map is already pretty good for a stock bike, and I will agree. "

Makes me wonder if Nicholas has an older map in his Nevada?  In that case- just update to the most recent Breva map?

[Kev m]

If one of these Booster Plugs will work for you, I'd just get one of these.  Plug and play, and be done with it.  I've used these on several bikes I've owned, on stock and modified condition. It just basically enriches the fueling to compensate for the lean factory settings.

< Snip >

But they've worked fine on the bikes I installed them on. 

https://www.boosterplug.com/shop/all-moto-guzzi-58c1.html

I gotta push back on this concept that I once believed too.

And yes I tried one on two different bikes and initially thought it was "fine".

The thing is factory maps aren't "lean" across the board. They are rich in places and lean in small areas. Booster plugs don't discern where they screw up the ECU's inputs, they screw it up all the time. So they may be a band aid that makes some leanness go away in mid throttle and specific rpms where emissions testing occurs but they also make rich mapping elsewhere even more rich. Which can lead to worse mileage, more oil contamination, more pollution, and even at times damage.

Personally I'd rather run lean sometimes or, since there are such better mapping solutions today, go ahead and install a decent map.

[WildGuzziNicholas]

I don't have a stock bike. My exhaust is very open.

Brian said "Beetle will tell you that the stock Breva map is already pretty good for a stock bike, and I will agree. "

Makes me wonder if Nicholas has an older map in his Nevada?  In that case- just update to the most recent Breva map?

[sign216]

If one of these Booster Plugs will work for you, I'd just get one of these.  Plug and play, and be done with it.  I've used these on several bikes I've owned, on stock and modified condition.  It just basically enriches the fueling to compensate for the lean factory settings.  It's truly plug and play, no need for cables, download gizmos, maps, etc.  It's not tunable, so what you see is what you get.  But they've worked fine on the bikes I installed them on. 

https://www.boosterplug.com/shop/all-moto-guzzi-58c1.html

I've got an '09 V7 Classic, which is mechanically is similar to the OP's Nevada.   

The Booster Plug is an O2 sensor spoofer, that modifies the output of the oxygen sensor to enrich the air fuel mixture.  Early on, I made one up myself.  See this post (double-click on the photos to get the text):  https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157629649665070/with/7167698276/

Later I went with a programmable ECU, the MyECU from Australia, and I'm still running it now.  The O2 sensor is cheap and easy, but remapping the ECU gives a better solution.  It's just more work.  MyECU was good for it's time (a decade ago), but I bet there are better solutions now, like the Beetle re-mapping.

Joe

[guzzisteve]

I don't have a stock bike. My exhaust is very open.

Check your TPS for being in correct place, then put it at 165mv instead of 150 for a baseline, that may be enough for the pipes if you have the stock airbox. That is max for being set, more will feel edgy and not real tractable.

[WildGuzziNicholas]

Should I do a TPS reset and then adjust it to 165mv?

Check your TPS for being in correct place, then put it at 165mv instead of 150 for a baseline, that may be enough for the pipes if you have the stock airbox. That is max for being set, more will feel edgy and not real tractable.

[guzzisteve]

Yes, the reset only effects the idle degree's, you could wait  do it after.
If it just has 2 screws & no slot to turn it, it won't adjust for a base enrichment.

[WildGuzziNicholas]

This is it here I believe..

Yes, the reset only effects the idle degree's, you could wait  do it after.
If it just has 2 screws & no slot to turn it, it won't adjust for a base enrichment.

[guzzisteve]

That's it, non adjustable. That means if the Breva map you got may need more fuel in map, it will be richer with the O2 shut off. You can also close the air bleed to richen up bottom end. But they should be around 3/4 turns open.
 If O2 is off you may be able to adjust idle mixture, got to look. Have fun, get the cables.

Read & understand, it's not too bad---------------------------------------------

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=96957.0

[WildGuzziNicholas]

Got a map from buggy installed. Took it for a 50mile or so ride. Got home pulled the brand new plugs and they look a little on the white side. The map along with the TPS reset and wiping the auto learning parameters dramatically lowered the amount of decel popping.
Not quite sure where to go from here. I want to fix the white on the plugs as I'd rather have the bike run on the rich side vs lean. Does adjusting the CO trim enrich or lean out the fuel and in what direction should I go?
The Lambda sensor should be off now per the map Buggy gave me. Is that what you mean by "O2 shut off"? How do I close the "air bleed"?

That's it, non adjustable. That means if the Breva map you got may need more fuel in map, it will be richer with the O2 shut off. You can also close the air bleed to richen up bottom end. But they should be around 3/4 turns open.
 If O2 is off you may be able to adjust idle mixture, got to look. Have fun, get the cables.

Read & understand, it's not too bad---------------------------------------------

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=96957.0