'10 V7C, broken shifter linkage, possible cause?

[sstone14]

Hey y'all, curious to get your input on this matter of what might've caused my broken shift lever linkage.

In your expert opinion, what would happen if, say, I attempted to shift from 2nd down through N and into 1st without pulling in the clutch at all, but basically just smashed the lever down through N and into 1st against its will. And also, what would happen if I repeated the same exact process in reverse, i.e. forced the shift lever up from 1st through N and into 2nd, without pulling in the clutch at all, against its will? What if I did this like four or five times? Could this cause the linkage piece to break? And what if I WAS pulling in the clutch, but the clutch just wasn't actually working?

I'm asking this in this way because I think I'm getting screwed by the service center that's working on my bike. They did work on the clutch hand lever (actually had to do machine work on it to reshape it to get it work--I can't really supply more detail than that), and they had to fix the clutch switch as well, apparently, whatever that means. I hadn't been having any issues with the clutch or shifter or transmission in any way, but had brought it in because of a lurchy uneven fueling issue in the power band, and I guess there was some loose electrical under the bars that led them to this solution. I'm not mechanically educated enough to explain any of this in any more detail.

Well on the ride home everything was going well--even the lurchy fueling had been fixed--but then at one point after maybe ten minutes of smooth riding I attempted to downshift from 2nd to 1st, WITH the clutch pulled in, and was met with basically bricklike resistance. I managed to force it down, but was met with the same sort of resistance on the way back up (obviously, again, with the clutch pulled in). Before you get mad at me, please remember that I was literally in traffic and had never had an issue like this before and didn't know what was happening and felt like I pretty desperately needed to shift gears in order to stay safe. Eventually I did pull off to the side of the road, where I did attempt to work the lever a couple more times, and finally it came loose altogether so that it was just swinging around. This is obviously where the linkage broke.

Luckily I was in 2nd gear and not terribly far from the service center, so I was able to get back there riding in 2nd the whole way, and pushing off my feet to start in 2nd from a roll.

Well now the guy there is refusing to accept responsibility. Now, maybe I am completely in the wrong. I don't know. But I paid $350 to have it worked on today, and will probably have to pay another $200 to get this linkage replaced, and I'm honestly just sort of baffled.

I was having no problems with the clutch or shifter, then these guys got in there and did their thing, and then almost immediately afterwards the clutch (seemingly) fails to perform its job when pulled in and the shifter linkage busts as a result. At least, this is how it seems to me. Is this what happened? Am I crazy?

I guess my question boils down to: if the clutch weren't working, and I tried to shift up and down through the gears, would it ultimately cause this linkage to break? This guy is trying to tell me that there's no connection between the clutch lever and the shifter, which seems insane to me.

I will happily pay the man and apologize for questioning him if I am mistaken and the timing of these things is truly mere coincidence. But please let me know what you think, if you wouldn't mind.

Thanks, everyone. I hope you're having more fun than I am lol. And I do appreciate your input.

Stay safe and happy riding.

[Dirk_S]

Oof. I have so many questions.

• Why are they messing with the clutch lever? Did you drop the bike at one point? Was the pivot bushing still installed? What exactly were they machining? Nothing should need to be machined if there wasn’t damage.

• What part of the linkage broke? One of the ball joints? If so, linkages are cheap and easy enough to rebuild/repair yourself with new ball joints. Amazon link below, assuming they’re the same shifter linkage style as on the later V7/V9:
  
  Micro Traders 4Pcs Angle Linkage Ball Joint Kit, with Spring Clip Dust Seal CS DIN 71802 Gear Linkage Replacements M6 (LH and RH) https://a.co/d/gZ1mRD0

• Now…the stuck feeling. Either the clutch adjuster screw lock nut wasn’t properly tightened at the lever (provided the clutch cable wasn’t replaced with an improper length cable), causing the clutch lever to eventually not have enough distance of cable pull…or the shift pedal got stuck…or the clutch lever in the back of the motor got stuck…or… something else I’m not considering…

[Tom H]

You did a good job of explaining what is going on. But..you were not clear enough n the details.

Clutch hand lever....Does it feel normal and like your working the clutch like it was before taking the bike to be worked on? Or...does it have no resistance/firm pull, just flopping loosely?

The foot shift lever.... Have you looked on the LH side of the bike rearward of the starter motor to look at the linkage connecting the foot shift lever to the back of the transmission?  Explain why you think it's broken, as in one of the ends are off the rod, looks like it is not connected to the foot lever or trans lever, broken in half?? Pictures would very much help!

Now to answer your first question. Yes it could be possible to break the linkage rod if you hit the foot lever excessively hard, like standing on it. It is possible that one of the ends of the rod has failed, that could happen with normal easy shifting. Parts wear out.

Just some thoughts, let us know,
Tom

[sstone14]

Oof. I have so many questions.

• Why are they messing with the clutch lever? Did you drop the bike at one point? Was the pivot bushing still installed? What exactly were they machining? Nothing should need to be machined if there wasn’t damage.

• What part of the linkage broke? One of the ball joints? If so, linkages are cheap and easy enough to rebuild/repair yourself with new ball joints. Amazon link below, assuming they’re the same shifter linkage style as on the later V7/V9:
  
  Micro Traders 4Pcs Angle Linkage Ball Joint Kit, with Spring Clip Dust Seal CS DIN 71802 Gear Linkage Replacements M6 (LH and RH) https://a.co/d/gZ1mRD0

• Now…the stuck feeling. Either the clutch adjuster screw lock nut wasn’t properly tightened at the lever (provided the clutch cable wasn’t replaced with an improper length cable), causing the clutch lever to eventually not have enough distance of cable pull…or the shift pedal got stuck…or the clutch lever in the back of the motor got stuck…or… something else I’m not considering…

Hi Dirk, thank you for the thoughtful response.

First of all, the bike has definitely been dropped a couple times, once by me, and likely also by previous owners. I replaced a snapped clutch lever with an aftermarket one, but this was years ago, and I've had no clutch lever problems since then.

For whatever reason, they said they needed to work on the clutch switch. I guess there were some electrical components that had become disconnected and in reconnecting them or reestablishing those connections this switch needed attention--I'm really not sure. But in order to get the clutch to engage properly, I was told that they had to do some sort of grinding on the aftermarket lever, which had worked no problem up to that point.

Can't answer your question on exactly which part of the linkage broke. It just seemed to have come off altogether, or at least that main rod piece of it between the joints.

Are you saying that it's possible that some bad, or otherwise incomplete, work on the clutch lever, which was working fine before they got to it, could have caused the lever to fail to do its job of getting the cable to pull sufficiently, meaning that when I tried to shift, I was essentially doing it without the clutch at all? i.e. whether this happened at the level of the lever itself, somewhere in the clutch cable, or down in the motor?

It is possible that the shift pedal just got stuck independently of the lever, but I just feel so doubtful of that, since there were literally no problems in this capacity prior to them working on it.

Thanks.

[sstone14]

You did a good job of explaining what is going on. But..you were not clear enough n the details.

Clutch hand lever....Does it feel normal and like your working the clutch like it was before taking the bike to be worked on? Or...does it have no resistance/firm pull, just flopping loosely?

The foot shift lever.... Have you looked on the LH side of the bike rearward of the starter motor to look at the linkage connecting the foot shift lever to the back of the transmission?  Explain why you think it's broken, as in one of the ends are off the rod, looks like it is not connected to the foot lever or trans lever, broken in half?? Pictures would very much help!

Now to answer your first question. Yes it could be possible to break the linkage rod if you hit the foot lever excessively hard, like standing on it. It is possible that one of the ends of the rod has failed, that could happen with normal easy shifting. Parts wear out.

Just some thoughts, let us know,
Tom

Hi Tom, thanks for taking the time.

The clutch lever felt normal when I was pulling it in and releasing it, before and after the shift lever had failed.

That linkage piece between the foot shift lever and the back of the transmission is itself, in fact, what is broken. PRETTY sure it's this thing I'm talking about:





I don't have pictures of the bike itself at this point because I'm home in it's in the shop still, but yes, broken in half best describes my memory of what the technician pointed out to me. And the foot shift lever, while still attached, is loose and swinging freely on the axis where it's mounted.

I totally submit to the possibility that parts simply wear out over time, and maybe this was just a big coincidence. My worry and suspicion is that whatever work the did to the clutch switch and lever caused it to fail to perform its function when pulled in (it's an adjustable lever, which they'd adjusted my setting of when they did their work, and it was working fine on the ride back till I attempted to adjust it back to how I had it before), so that I was effectively attempting to smash the foot shift lever without a clutch, without realizing it, because I had the clutch pulled in. Even if I don't know how any of this stuff works, I at least know how to ride the thing.

The technician, who is also the service manager, is basically claiming that my suspicion is impossible because there's no relationship between the clutch hand lever and the foot shift lever, and I guess I'm just trying to determine if he's dealing with me honestly, and in good faith.

Thanks again for your input.

[Dirk_S]

If the clutch cable isn’t pulling on the rear clutch arm properly, then you’re clearly going to have a stuck shifter feeling UNLESS you reach the ideal RPMs that allows the dogs to align and switch over, which I recommend getting to know in the case of a broken clutch cable (BTW, the ideal RPM for shifting up is not necessarily the same for shifting back down).

For my brain personally (I’m not a mechanic), I think there are one too many unknowns, including your own understanding of how shifting works. That’s not meant to offend, but mechanical knowledge is part of the skill set as well as diagnosing. That said, if the clutch did work fine on your ride, and then suddenly the shifter got stuck, then the only reason I would personally blame the clutch is if the adjustment screw was making its way in, causing that cable to not pull enough at the arm behind the motor…or the thrust pushrod that the arm in back pushes suddenly seized up inside the shaft.

But if the whole clutch was and is working fine—that is indeed necessary for diagnostics—then your problem lies in the shifting.

FWIW, I broke and replaced two shift linkages on my small block Guzzis—one on my old V7 II about 7,000 miles ago (it’s at 45,000 miles now), and just a couple weeks ago on my V9. Both instances, the ball end snapped at the threads on the shifter mount.

…but yeah—learn that shifting threshold without using the clutch, because then you might not’ve felt the need to crunch down on the shifter.

[Moparnut72]

Shifting at ideal rpm even while using the clutch generally results in relatively quiet shifts mainly after the gearbox has a few thousand miles on it.
kk

[sstone14]

If the clutch cable isn’t pulling on the rear clutch arm properly, then you’re clearly going to have a stuck shifter feeling UNLESS you reach the ideal RPMs that allows the dogs to align and switch over, which I recommend getting to know in the case of a broken clutch cable (BTW, the ideal RPM for shifting up is not necessarily the same for shifting back down).

For my brain personally (I’m not a mechanic), I think there are one too many unknowns, including your own understanding of how shifting works. That’s not meant to offend, but mechanical knowledge is part of the skill set as well as diagnosing. That said, if the clutch did work fine on your ride, and then suddenly the shifter got stuck, then the only reason I would personally blame the clutch is if the adjustment screw was making its way in, causing that cable to not pull enough at the arm behind the motor…or the thrust pushrod that the arm in back pushes suddenly seized up inside the shaft.

But if the whole clutch was and is working fine—that is indeed necessary for diagnostics—then your problem lies in the shifting.

FWIW, I broke and replaced two shift linkages on my small block Guzzis—one on my old V7 II about 7,000 miles ago (it’s at 45,000 miles now), and just a couple weeks ago on my V9. Both instances, the ball end snapped at the threads on the shifter mount.

…but yeah—learn that shifting threshold without using the clutch, because then you might not’ve felt the need to crunch down on the shifter.

Nah, man, I'm not offended, I appreciate you taking the time to go back and forth with me. And yeah, my mechanical knowledge is definitely lacking, especially in the context of these forums, where pretty much everyone seems to have a deep understanding of the bikes.

This clutch-less shifting is definitely a skill I will practice in the future. For now, I'm basically in a position where I'm waiting to hear from the service center, will have to go up there and assent to being royally screwed by them (again, in the event that my suspicions are actually correct), ride the bike back, file a complaint with the better business bureau, ultimately get rid of the bike, and buy something Japanese that will go forever.

Now I'm just sort of thinking out loud though.

[Moparnut72]

I don't shift without the clutch. However I pre-load the shifter, cut the throttle a bit and then just tickle the clutch lever. The next gear will magically appear. Downshifting is similar just add a little throttle instead.
kk

[Dirk_S]

I don't shift without the clutch. However I pre-load the shifter, cut the throttle a bit and then just tickle the clutch lever. The next gear will magically appear. Downshifting is similar just add a little throttle instead.
kk

I’m not saying to make a habit out of it, but it does become a valuable skill when one’s clutch cable decides it no longer wishes to heave or ho. Besides, if I remember correctly, habitually downshifting without the clutch can damage the dogs over time. Not so bad upshifting.