Never thought I would get here

[faffi]

I have a lot of motorcycle magazines dating back to the 60s, but less and less after 1985. My favourite period motorcycling is 1976-1982. I let my last subscription lapse at the end of 2011, because I had long since lost interest in the modern stuff. Instead, I kept reading my old magazines. But the interest in the old magazines has also faded, and the only current magazine I care to read is CLASSIC BIKE. However, while I enjoy reading about all sorts of old stuff, I find myself more and more indifferent to the idea of actually owning something dating back 30 or more years.

I believe what really swung me over to the "modern era" of disc brakes, electronic ignition and fuel injection is that these items have become totally reliable. But just as important is the (lack of) gas quality that makes carbs a pain, and the immensely improved metallurgy and electronics that can make current machines utterly reliable. My 8 year old car has well over 80K miles on the dial, and the only things replaced is a drive shaft (manufacturing defect), coolant radiator (silica in the coolant from the factory that proved a mistake) and clutch master cylinder. Other than that I have replaced spark plugs once, brake fluid once, coolant once, auxiliary drive belt once, plus air- and coupe filter once each. Plus oil- and filter change every 10k miles or so. Not a single electronic component. No ignition timing to set, no valves to adjust, no oil to add between changes. The thing just works. Same with my 2017 V9. Admittedly, it only has 11500 miles on it, but I have not even looked at the valve clearances yet, and the spark plugs are still the original ones. Other than changing fluids and filling up with gas when needed, there is nothing to do other than check tire pressure every 3 months and replace when the tires are worn.

When I first began riding in 1980, maintenance intervals were something between 1000 and 4000 miles. And they were usually required. I do not get pleasure from maintenance. I like fixing things, improving things, but pure maintenance is for me a chore.

So I have come to like the current times. Only price to pay is slightly erratic throttle response near idle, which is something I have experienced to a larger or lesser degree on every fuel injected vehicle I have tried. I find that a small price to pay. Also, watching the videos from Honda, showing bikes from the 60s and 70s in action, noticing their lack of cornering clearance and bouncy suspension, further cemented the strides made over the decades since.

[aklawok]

 You are furtunate in your experiences with modern vehicles, especially in the last ten years have become frustratingly difficult  for the average mechanic to work on. Manufacturers are doing this intentionally as part of their business model.
As someone mechanically inclined and doing my own work on a variety of types and brand machines, I find myself more and more gravitating to older models, not just out of nostalgia but the fact that I can keep them running almost indefinitely. The newer generation of vehicles have become disposable.

[Guzzidad]

    I'm in the same camp as Faffi. I started riding in the mid 70's and gained a lot of "valuable" experience keeping my old Nortons and Triumphs on the road. Got into Guzzi's in the early 80's. They still needed attention but not as much as the English iron. Over the years they got better and better. I now have a 2020 V7 Racer with 6800 miles and all I have done is change oil a couple of times. Like Faffi, I haven't even checked or adjusted the valves. I can hear they are working right and the bike runs perfect. Need to replace the rear tire soon though. And, again like Faffi, I have a 2017 V9 Bobber in transit to my house. Bought it from a gent who lives 1200 miles away so I hired a shipping company to deliver it.
should be a more age appropriate bike for this 73 year old than the Racer.

[faffi]

You are furtunate in your experiences with modern vehicles, especially in the last ten years have become frustratingly difficult  for the average mechanic to work on. Manufacturers are doing this intentionally as part of their business model.
As someone mechanically inclined and doing my own work on a variety of types and brand machines, I find myself more and more gravitating to older models, not just out of nostalgia but the fact that I can keep them running almost indefinitely. The newer generation of vehicles have become disposable.

I used to have a similar pircture of things, based on experience between friends and family plus articles. And if you ride or drive high-end models, loaded with gadgets, I believe the chances of things being either a) often in for warranty or b) costly to own second-hand. But if you stick to simpler vehicles, with less "stuff", my experience is that they tend to just trundle on with very little attention, and that the overall build quality is massively better than before. How many rotted out exhaust systems do you see on vehicles 15 years old compared to back in the 70s? Worn out suspension? Rusted panels? Stuck brakes? Perhaps I have been lucky, but any old Ford I have owned from the 70s and 80s would never have made it as far as my current Skoda and still been in top condition.

[turboguzzi]

One comment is of course, why not have both.... have a pretty large collection of older road bikes, dual purpose as well as all my vintage race bikes, why do i like them? because they need me to run well, big satisfaction now that my 1955 NSU Max is running so well thanks to what i did.

But also wanted to add a new bike for my arriving retirement, just gas and ride. was really attracted to the V100 Mandello when it came out, but all the horror stories really put me off.  Sorry V100, wanted to want you, but Guzzi hasnt done their homework properly. Not the only new lemon bike out there, KTM twins had huge issues, new Boxers seem to smart for their own good.

Now that i seen the news, looks like it's going to be the 2026 Honda CB1000F, at least with that i really wont have to worry....

[faffi]

    I'm in the same camp as Faffi. I started riding in the mid 70's and gained a lot of "valuable" experience keeping my old Nortons and Triumphs on the road. Got into Guzzi's in the early 80's. They still needed attention but not as much as the English iron. Over the years they got better and better. I now have a 2020 V7 Racer with 6800 miles and all I have done is change oil a couple of times. Like Faffi, I haven't even checked or adjusted the valves. I can hear they are working right and the bike runs perfect. Need to replace the rear tire soon though. And, again like Faffi, I have a 2017 V9 Bobber in transit to my house. Bought it from a gent who lives 1200 miles away so I hired a shipping company to deliver it.
should be a more age appropriate bike for this 73 year old than the Racer.

Hope you will dig the Bobber  Remember to post a picture or two

I wonder why I kept my rose tinted glasses on for so long Most likely because it was familiar and easy to understand technology.

My first motorcycle was a 1974 Suzuki A100 that I bought in 1979. By then, it arrived in a number of boxes together with parts from 2 or 3 other such machines. Everything was rusty and worn out. I then bought a brand new Honda CB100 the following year, and despite regular cleaning and polishing, the winter salt caused for lots of corrosion, and the frame surface was more rust than paint.

I will not bore you with every machine I have owned, but my 1976 (first year of registration, it was made in 1974) Honda CB350F had less than 8 years on the road when I bought it. By then, all four mufflers were rotted away with holes big enough to push a fist through, the rear fender had a rust-hole that was 1x3 inches large, the chrome on both fenders heavily pitted, the chrome on the fork stanchions replaced by primarily rust, and it was ripe for a full restoration. I could go on. Same with my old cars, which needed new exhaust systems every 3-5 years, most had such bad paint and so much rust they needed a respray every 7-10 years, etc. My 8 year old Skoda does not have a speck of rust anywhere, and I do not pamper it anymore than I did back when.

[faffi]

One comment is of course, why not have both.... have a pretty large collection of older road bikes, dual purpose as well as all my vintage race bikes, why do i like them? because they need me to run well, big satisfaction now that my 1955 NSU Max is running so well thanks to what i did.

But also wanted to add a new bike for my arriving retirement, just gas and ride. was really attracted to the V100 Mandello when it came out, but all the horror stories really put me off.  Sorry V100, wanted to want you, but Guzzi hasnt done their homework properly. Not the only new lemon bike out there, KTM twins had huge issues, new Boxers seem to smart for their own good.

Now that i seen the news, looks like it's going to be the 2026 Honda CB1000F, at least with that i really wont have to worry....

The 2026 CB1000F looks really nice

Good points. I do own both new-ish and old-ish bikes, but I feel like getting rid of the older stuff in order to simplify my life and spend more time riding, less time twirling spanners. I may decide to keep my 1990 Tenere, though.

[turboguzzi]

Hold on to it...

IMHO, japanese bikes of the late 80s to late 90s, pre-injection, were the peak of simplicity, reliability and quality.

[Moparnut72]

With the gas we have here in California I will never again willingly own anything with a carb again. I currently have an outboard motor and a mini bike that won't run right even though I have been through both carbs a couple of times. I ensure they are completely dry when I shut them down but ethanol still rears its ugly head. Ethanol free fuel is not available here other than a few marinas on the coast and they are hundreds of miles away.
kk

[Bulldog9]

I'm mostly ambivalent. I'm NOT a fan of TFT/digital gauges, Throttle by wire, and 'cornering ABS' and active suspension baloney, but I do like and appreciate Fuel Injection and Electronic Points. As far as ABS, its been a non issue in that it is transparent, and hasn't failed. I have it on two of my bikes (Stornello/Norge) but the rest of the MC Harem is all old school for brakes.

Points/condenser were always my nemesis, and I intentionally moved away from them in the 80's. The only vehicle with them is the Convert, and if/when they crap out or give my problems, I'll 'convert' it to a Dyna system Maybe......

I know m any consider it snake oil, but I've treated and used Seafoam in my carb'd vehicles since the 90's. It kept even the finicky CV carbs in my XS1100 generally clean and clear. Never had to open them in the 100K miles, and 20 years with long NY winter storage. I've also kept the Convert and my 912 carbs clean and clear with Seafoam, so I don't worry much about the Ethanol Fuel issues.

Progress is progress. Some good some bad.

[DoubleGuzzi]

"..  I will never again willingly own anything with a carb again." etc. Doesn't just affect carb 'bikes.. I carry a small bottle of additive under the V50 seat, for each fill up. It's like having a 2-stroke without the automatic oil system - reminds me of my 1st ride, a BSA 150 Bantam.
The Breva tank is blistered and swollen, presumably by the PO using E10 though possibly still happened with E5 (the minimum here). I manually add the (Mannol) additive when I remember and for layups.
A far cry from 5-star petrol and some folks running on avgas!

[nwguy]

I'm happy in the late 90s to mid-2000s era. Give me fuel injection and electronic ignition, but also analog gauges, minimal electronics (riding "modes", quick shifting, even ABS) and metal gas tanks. I miss my Buell Lightnings. Even though valves didn't need adjusting, no shop will work on them anymore if you need anything done beyond your abilities. My 99' Bassa fits my needs currently. Things just seem disposable when the electronics get too crazy. I wonder how many 20 or 25 year old electric cars will we see in the future?

[faffi]

Definitely agree on the TFT and other gadgets - I do not need them, either. But electronic ignition and fuel injection both make life easier as long as they work. And they appear to be anvil reliable these days.

[wirespokes]

 You can keep the new stuff - I prefer to keep computers and electronics out of the equation. They're fine when they work, but frustrating and expensive when they don't. Plus they can leave you stranded. No thanks!

[MikeP996]

"Sorry V100, wanted to want you, but Guzzi hasnt done their homework properly. Not the only new lemon bike out there"

What, specifically are you referring to as far as a V100 being a "lemon bike?"  Everything I've seen/read since it was released has been of the opposite opinion.  It's not a bike for me but I've not seen anything but positive views.

Re old bikes/current fuel - My '76 Honda CB400F and my '73 Norton Commando don't have any issues at all running E10.  Both are stock engines/carbs.  The Norton has an aftermarket TriSpark ignition; the Honda has the original points-type ignition.  I add fuel stabilizer (StaBil) for long term storage on all my bikes.

[turboguzzi]

"Sorry V100, wanted to want you, but Guzzi hasnt done their homework properly. Not the only new lemon bike out there"

What, specifically are you referring to as far as a V100 being a "lemon bike?"  Everything I've seen/read since it was released has been of the opposite opinion.  It's not a bike for me but I've not seen anything but positive views.

Im new here, so surely not yet someone to be trusted :) , be warned!

Tried the bike, I totally agree with the glowing reviews, i think too its a great bike. Liked riding it a lot.
After the test ride ive been following this model on various forums and just seen too many gripes IMVHO, it's totally ok if many will disagree with my perception.
Its a really long list and on top, its not just the problems, but the way they are being handled by guzzi dealers, even here in italy. I am an expert mechanic, restorer and engine builder, but if i buy new, ill have to stick to dealer service to stay in warranty and the way they process claims is a real pain point.

Sorry for the hijack faffi

[MikeP996]

"After the test ride ive been following  this model on various forums and just seen too many gripes"

Ok, but WHAT are the specific gripes that are being expressed?  Certainly I can understand the lack of dealers/support but that's a "known" up front and shouldn't be a complaint about the bike itself though, of course, it could be major factor in deciding to BUY one.  Are there riding/mechanical complaints?  FWIW, complaints about electronics/menus are, IMO, not valid.  ALL modern bikes with the usual electronics have the same annoyances.  I still haven't figured out my R1200RS's menus/electronics and I've had the bike for 6 years!!!!  :)

[Kev m]

You can keep the new stuff - I prefer to keep computers and electronics out of the equation. They're fine when they work, but frustrating and expensive when they don't. Plus they can leave you stranded. No thanks!

Yet consistently and statistically over the decades this assumption was proved wrong as "they" don't yet the more fragile components used before them "did" and "do" (leave you stranded).

I.E. for decades modern vehicles have been more reliable than the ones before them. Though I'll admit the current level of too many features might have finally turned past the peak of that curve.

[faffi]

I do not have any statistics, but I am pretty confident that people riding bikes made before 1980 on average are left stranded far more often than people riding bikes made after 2000.

[Bulldog9]

Yet consistently and statistically over the decades this assumption was proved wrong as "they" don't yet the more fragile components used before them "did" and "do" (leave you stranded).

I.E. for decades modern vehicles have been more reliable than the ones before them. Though I'll admit the current level of too many features might have finally turned past the peak of that curve.

It's a slippery slope. I think for the most part, the reliability of the components to 'keep you moving' are pretty robust. Fuel pump failures are likely more common than old school gravity fed carbs, but FI is far easier to maintain and keep running. My 'impression' is that throttle cables fail more often than the TBW rheostats due to redundancy, but it's much easier/cheaper to carry and swap out a throttle cable than it is a TBW unit. Electronic Ignition is maintenance free and works without fuss until it doesn't. Points/Condensers tend to be reliable, but need adjustment and wear, and decent condensers are often NLA. ABS systems are pretty bulletproof, but sensors, units, etc can and do fail, where a non ABS system is largely flawless, though at a loss of ABS benefits. It is all about what you want/need and are willing to trade off. I value connected and authentic feel, and find that the more 'advancements' you have, the more insulated and soulless the ride/drive is.

Everything is a tradeoff. I'm by no means a luddite, but there is something more authentic and satisfying (for me) to ride an old tech free bike.

That said......... given age and such, my first go-to is the Norge or Stornello for a cross country worry free jaunt. Then again I did the same with my XS1100 between 1986 & 1996 to the tune of over 100K miles. Trouble free? Gawds NO...... Terrible electrics, failed vaccum advance, melted ignition switch leads, failed fuse box, an alternator barely able to keep the stock electrics running. I heated vest/gloves would run a deficit, as would the AUX lights or any other accessory.  LED's weren't available back then. If I decide to put either into more than occasional use, I would changeover the head and tail lights to LED.

As much as the V100 chassis is brilliant, I never really liked my WC days (C-10 Concours, FZ1, FJR) and plan to keep to air cooled wherever possible. I figure I have at best 10 years left of riding what I want before I have to collapse down to a V7 or smaller.

[Motormike]

You are furtunate in your experiences with modern vehicles, especially in the last ten years have become frustratingly difficult for the average mechanic to work on. Manufacturers are doing this intentionally as part of their business model.

There is something to be said for newer fuel injected bikes.  Today's motorcycles can sit for a long time indeed and start right up when asked in my experience.  Little more required that keeping the battery on a tender and checking the tires.  The largest detriment today is the crappy E10 gas which doesn't hold up very long.  The one trend on new bikes I can't stand is the "service reminder."  Invariably it requires proprietary software from the manufacturer to reset.  There is usually a work-around if you are willing to spend the $ online to buy a code reader, etc. That has become a cottage industry in and of itself.

[Motormike]

I've stayed with Harley Davidson for many years because, 1. They still print out very nice service manuals you can actually buy. 2. Even their newer bikes don't have any kind of "service reminder" light to deal with.
3. Even with ever more complicated electronics, the engine itself is still mechanically simple.
 
Having said all that, I discovered their newest bikes can be an electrical headache.  I purchase a lightly used 2021 Softail Slim a few months ago.  It had the original battery, which was on the way out and would not hold a charge for more than a few days.  I got the bike out after it had sat for only a couple of days and started it.  It turned over reluctantly but fired and started.  Unfortunately, it also threw a "check engine" light.    The bike was running, so I'd ride it and charge the battery that way.  Imagine my astonishment when the motorcycle would not accept any throttle nor run much beyond about 15mph!  Apparently, the low voltage start had thrown the ECU into "limp" mode!  So there I was, on a motorcycle that was running, mechanically sound, charging the battery, and I could not ride it! At least to Harleys credit, clearing the code doesn't involve any computer hookups or anything beyond cycling the power and turn signal buttons in a certain sequence. The next day I replaced the battery with a new one and all is well, for now at least.

[DoubleGuzzi]

I've stayed with Harley Davidson for many years because..

Nope. You've still not tempted me to a H-D. 

[Motormike]

Nope. You've still not tempted me to a H-D. 

Well, don't people say a Moto Guzzi is an Italian Harley?  (or is it the other way round  )

[faffi]

My brother just added a third Harley to is H-D stable http://www.auksjonen.no/auksjon/523221/523221?utm_source=sysmail&utm_medium=auction_finished&utm_campaign=auction

He also owns a 1999 Glide anniversary model and a 1977 Sporster. Plus a BSA, a Matchless, several Triumphs, a Chinese 300, a couple of Guzzis, a Gold Wing 1000 and a plethora of bikes I do not remember.

[Bulldog9]

My brother just added a third Harley to is H-D stable http://www.auksjonen.no/auksjon/523221/523221?utm_source=sysmail&utm_medium=auction_finished&utm_campaign=auction

He also owns a 1999 Glide anniversary model and a 1977 Sporster. Plus a BSA, a Matchless, several Triumphs, a Chinese 300, a couple of Guzzis, a Gold Wing 1000 and a plethora of bikes I do not remember.

Condolences 

[SIR REAL ED]

I have a lot of motorcycle magazines dating back to the 60s, but less and less after 1985. My favourite period motorcycling is 1976-1982. I let my last subscription lapse at the end of 2011, because I had long since lost interest in the modern stuff. Instead, I kept reading my old magazines. But the interest in the old magazines has also faded, and the only current magazine I care to read is CLASSIC BIKE. However, while I enjoy reading about all sorts of old stuff, I find myself more and more indifferent to the idea of actually owning something dating back 30 or more years.

I believe what really swung me over to the "modern era" of disc brakes, electronic ignition and fuel injection is that these items have become totally reliable. But just as important is the (lack of) gas quality that makes carbs a pain, and the immensely improved metallurgy and electronics that can make current machines utterly reliable. My 8 year old car has well over 80K miles on the dial, and the only things replaced is a drive shaft (manufacturing defect), coolant radiator (silica in the coolant from the factory that proved a mistake) and clutch master cylinder. Other than that I have replaced spark plugs once, brake fluid once, coolant once, auxiliary drive belt once, plus air- and coupe filter once each. Plus oil- and filter change every 10k miles or so. Not a single electronic component. No ignition timing to set, no valves to adjust, no oil to add between changes. The thing just works. Same with my 2017 V9. Admittedly, it only has 11500 miles on it, but I have not even looked at the valve clearances yet, and the spark plugs are still the original ones. Other than changing fluids and filling up with gas when needed, there is nothing to do other than check tire pressure every 3 months and replace when the tires are worn.

When I first began riding in 1980, maintenance intervals were something between 1000 and 4000 miles. And they were usually required. I do not get pleasure from maintenance. I like fixing things, improving things, but pure maintenance is for me a chore.

So I have come to like the current times. Only price to pay is slightly erratic throttle response near idle, which is something I have experienced to a larger or lesser degree on every fuel injected vehicle I have tried. I find that a small price to pay. Also, watching the videos from Honda, showing bikes from the 60s and 70s in action, noticing their lack of cornering clearance and bouncy suspension, further cemented the strides made over the decades since.

Yep.

Changes in technology, and getting older with the resultant changes in personal priorities.

In the olden days, and the golden era of rapid changes in motorcycles, the concept of making things better and personalizing your ride was easy and part of the attraction.

Re-writing software to gain more features?  Not exciting to most.

Less involvement in interfacing with hardware means more time for other things.

In the US, the culture of convenience is big money!

[faffi]

Then again, I can enjoy projects like your MZ/DR Not the easy way out, for sure, but satisfying when done. How is it coming along?

[SIR REAL ED]

Then again, I can enjoy projects like your MZ/DR Not the easy way out, for sure, but satisfying when done. How is it coming along?

It has been on the back burner for quite a while.  Hopefully it will get some attention soon.  Another 15-30 hours should have it road worthy.

[turboguzzi]

"After the test ride ive been following  this model on various forums and just seen too many gripes"

Ok, but WHAT are the specific gripes that are being expressed?  Certainly I can understand the lack of dealers/support but that's a "known" up front and shouldn't be a complaint about the bike itself though, of course, it could be major factor in deciding to BUY one.  Are there riding/mechanical complaints?  FWIW, complaints about electronics/menus are, IMO, not valid.  ALL modern bikes with the usual electronics have the same annoyances.  I still haven't figured out my R1200RS's menus/electronics and I've had the bike for 6 years!!!!  :)

Sorry, but really dont want to turn Faffi's interesting discussion into a V100 pros/cons discussion. An no, i'm not talking about TFT menus but rather more serious stuff. FWIW, a TFT that doesnt go into sleep mode after shut down and drains the battery is a biggie in my book.

Have long list of similar, not going to post them here. Sorry and excuse me if im letting you down. Dont want to bash the V100 either, i think that riding wise it is a great bike.
Totally with you on BMWs, awfull reliability record. Some year ago i broke down with my car and while riding in the cab with the recovery guy i asked him: you are all day long on the road, so which motorcycle brand you get most calls for recovery? answer: BMW, by a mile! Asked him what issues then, he remembered immobilizer problems mostly. Luckily my 1986 G/S doesnt have one :)