Seriously stupid designs

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

i've got a morini dart , looks like a tiny ducati paso ,


 it is basically a 125 cagiva 2 stroke chassis where they managed to shoehorn a 350 morini engine in.
as the chassis was meant for a two stroke it does not have easy access to the engine.
to check the oil level you have to completely remove the fairing.
typical of italians ,
build beautiful things, but practicality not at the top of the priority list.

I have a Ducati Paso 907ie, and yeah, removing the body work to do anything takes about a half hour if you're careful about it. Anytime Desmo service comes up on one of my bikes I pay a shop to do it. It's ranged from 2.5hr to 6hr services. Modernish Ducatis in general are not very end user mechanic friendly, even for the Scrambler Icon 800 I owned they don't officially publish a workshop manual which was a factor in me deciding to not buy another new Ducati when the DesertX came out. That said, I replaced the clutch on my Ducati Scrambler in the garden of my apartment at the time in under an hour... watching a video of someone replacing the clutch on a Moto Guzzi V7 and I hope mine never wears out!

It's amazing how many bikes have overly difficult valve service though, take the new Royal Enfield Himalayan 450 for example, you have to pull one of the cams to adjust valve clearances. Absolute nightmare compared to something that was simple on the 411 predecessor.

A notoriously stupid design from HONDA of all brands is on the modern Cub engines up until a few years ago, the 110cc and 125cc from the early 2000s up until ~2022 depending on the model had the oil drain plug on the engine just opposite a bolt with the same head size that held the hydraulic cam chain tensioner plunger up in the engine. Come the first oil change, many people pull the wrong bolt and accidentally drop the plunger out the bottom of the engine and lose the spring inside the left hand crankcase cover which requires pulling the flywheel to retrieve it... for the latest Euro5+ engine Honda changed that plunger bolt to a button head allen/hex bolt to avoid the common mix up.

[wirespokes]

I've heard the engine needs to come out to replace a Goldwing alternator.

[PeteS]

I've heard the engine needs to come out to replace a Goldwing alternator.

I think that was true on the 1100s. The 1800 alternator can be removed without removing the engine. Just takes a bit of fiddling with one of the nuts. BTDT

Pete

[cliffrod]

It isn’t just stupid designs but needlessly cumbersome assembly procedures to enhance profitability….. 

For many years (and maybe they still do it?), HD installed rear axles in such a manner that the exhaust had to be removed in order to remove the axle to service the rear wheel.   This required additional labor hours at the dealership, especially if there were problems with the exhaust and how it was removed.   A formal dealership would keep all these parts in such a configuration to boost service profit margins on return visits. 

Being a regular & honest non-dealership shop, we would remove the exhaust to remove the axle on the first relevant service.  Then we would install the axle from the opposite side and put the nut end on the exhaust side.   Simple remedy.

From that point, the labor to do a tire, rear brakes, etc was significantly reduced.

[nc43bsa]

  A formal dealership would keep all these parts in such a configuration to boost service profit margins on return visits. 

What's a formal dealership?

[ridingron]

What's a formal dealership?

formal = former ? ?

[faffi]

I've heard the engine needs to come out to replace a Goldwing alternator.

That was true for the GL1000/1100/1200. Also for the CX500/650. The same is true for the TCI pickups - engine out. Changing the clutch on a GL1800 is also eye-watering costly, although the engine must not come out - it is just a PITA to get at.

[faffi]

It isn’t just stupid designs but needlessly cumbersome assembly procedures to enhance profitability….. 

For many years (and maybe they still do it?), HD installed rear axles in such a manner that the exhaust had to be removed in order to remove the axle to service the rear wheel.   This required additional labor hours at the dealership, especially if there were problems with the exhaust and how it was removed.   A formal dealership would keep all these parts in such a configuration to boost service profit margins on return visits. 

Reminds me of the Yamaha XS750/850/1100 standard models that came with an adjustable cable with hooks at both ends. Owners could use the cable to compress the suspension enough to get the rear wheel axle out above the muffler.

[huub]

I have a Ducati Paso 907ie, and yeah, removing the body work to do anything takes about a half hour if you're careful about it. Anytime Desmo service comes up on one of my bikes I pay a shop to do it. It's ranged from 2.5hr to 6hr services. Modernish Ducatis in general are not very end user mechanic friendly, even for the Scrambler Icon 800 I owned they don't officially publish a workshop manual which was a factor in me deciding to not buy another new Ducati when the DesertX came out. That said, I replaced the clutch on my Ducati Scrambler in the garden of my apartment at the time in under an hour... watching a video of someone replacing the clutch on a Moto Guzzi V7 and I hope mine never wears out!

my cagiva 900 elefant needs the engine dropped to adjust the exhaust valve of the vertical cylinder.
i commuted for some time on the elefant , but dropping the engine every 8000 km gets old if you ride 35.000 km/year
I actually hate desmo valves,
everybody else knows how to use valve springs by now, the only reason for ducati to keep using  desmo is marketing

[MikeP996]

"If that doesn't confirm the old German Engineering adage of "Why use just one part when 37 will do!" I don't know what does."

They've improved!!! In my Porsche 911 they got it down to only using 5-6 parts to do the job of one! ;)

[Dukedesmo]

Quote from: MikeP996 on Today at 09:42:50 AM

"If that doesn't confirm the old German Engineering adage of "Why use just one part when 37 will do!" I don't know what does."

They've improved!!! In my Porsche 911 they got it down to only using 5-6 parts to do the job of one! ;)

___________________ ___________________ ______

And the opposite of French, at least Citroen, engineering where, why use 5 or even 4 wheelnuts when 3 will do... 

[Moparnut72]

Airhead BMWs had a throttle mechanism that has to be seen to believe. The throttle handle tube has a bevel gear on the end. This gear meshed with another that was on the end of a cam. A pair of small chains were wound around the cam, this would allow the throttle to increase incrementally as the handgrip was turned. The chains were attached to a small block to which a cable going to each carb was attached. The throttle on the two I owned was fairly stiff. Absolutely much more complicated that it needed to be. No wonder BMW's are so damn expensive.
kk

[SIR REAL ED]

What's a formal dealership?

The male employees have to wear tuxedos!

[Bulldog9]

Having never ridden a Norge, I can only relate to the test reports I have read. And a common tune of complaints is an apparent severe lack of cornering clearance, restricted by the dragging center stand on both sides, left side being the worst offender by far.

Fake news unless you are aping a Moto GP rider.

The 8V Norge has an access door to check oil, and unscrewing the dipstick bung makes
adding oil much easier. The 8v also had revised bodywork and suspension to go along
with the new motor.

Overall, the Norge is  fantastic motorcycle.. Easy to ride, sweet disposition,
Competent handler, rock solid high speed sport touring bike and mile muncher.

It can be a bit top heavy with a full tank of gas, and riders benefit from a seat buildup to help relieve knees, but I plan to own one as long as I can ride.

I foolishly traded my 2014 in 2019 for the flying fortress MGX 21. I sold that fat pig in 6 months and picked up a 1200 Sport but still missed the Norge. I got a great deal on a 2012 back in April and proceeded to do a 3,000 mile fly and ride.

 I spent the next 6 months going over the bike top to bottom cleaning fixing upgrading. A couple weeks ago I decided to take it out for a 375 to 400 mi and jaunt with a couple local V85 riders through West Virginia Maryland and Pennsylvania. It usually takes me a couple miles to reorient to a bike if I haven't been on it in a while but it was immediately familiar and comfortable and I loved every second of it.