Talk me out of it

[Travlr]

I liked my SP1000

[Huzo]

Or he'll buy it, ride it, enjoy it and it will lead him down another path.

He asked us to talk him out of it.
Really, they are just about the ugliest thing ever foisted onto the public, being seen on a BMW is is an admission that you’ll settle for bland mediocrity, but a flying brick is just beyond any semblance of acceptability.
If he does go ahead and relieve some poor soul of the horrible contraption, it’ll be fun watching the journey and witnessing what his reasons are for ultimately ditching it…
I hope he comes to his senses and leaves the thing to quietly rot like the Bismarck.

[kingoffleece]

Very entertaining!

[inditx]

I dunno, ride what you like and like what you ride or change often, as I have…..
Blessed to be able to
inditx

[Huzo]

I’m only doing what I can to try and talk him out of it..
After all, that is what he asked…

[faffi]

How’m I doing..?

Getting better 😂

[Perazzimx14]

He asked us to talk him out of it.
Really, they are just about the ugliest thing ever foisted onto the public, being seen on a BMW is is an admission that you’ll settle for bland mediocrity, but a flying brick is just beyond any semblance of acceptability.
If he does go ahead and relieve some poor soul of the horrible contraption, it’ll be fun watching the journey and witnessing what his reasons are for ultimately ditching it…
I hope he comes to his senses and leaves the thing to quietly rot like the Bismarck.

 

[Shorty]

I had a couple K bikes, both K75s. They gave me effortless miles at any speed I chose.  I found them to be the perfect tool for long distances over flat land where they made me feel I was flying because of the lack of noise or vibration. When I took them to mountains or twisty roads, I missed the torque and handling (and sound, frankly) of my Guzzis. I had to shift the BMW more. Mine were unfaired, so heat was not a problem. The K bikes are top heavy in the garage or at low speed or uneven pavement. The exhaust whine reminded me of George Jetson's suitcase car. I like the design of the K bikes, but then again I like square cars. The early K bikes were about 10 years or so ahead of the market with the fuel injection, stainless exhaust, aluminium fuel tank, single sided swingarm, etc. Properly maintained, they will easily go 200K miles. The 1100s vibrate more than the 750s.

[faffi]

Well that’s not strictly correct, power is torque x rpm.
So low rpm requires high torque to get the power figure.
100 Nm x 1000 rpm is the same power as 50 Nm x 2,000 rpm.
What you need to accelerate from idle in top gear is a motor that provides a goodly proportion of its peak torque at that lower rpm figure.
A heavier flywheel helps here, because it stores the energy by virtue of its rotational mass and dishes it out evenly.

In my experience, what you need the most is several closely spaced combustion cycles. Open the throttle fully in top gear at 1000 rom on a Guzzi Le Mans on level ground, and you will feel the abuse. Do the same on a Suzuki GSX400F, and you will not accelerate briskly, (well, hardly at all) but the engine will not protest through harsh vibrations. A Honda CBX six or a KZ1300 of K1600 will be even less bothered with high loads at low rpm. But of course, the milder the tune, the happier any engine will be at low rpm. 

[RinkRat II]

     I've had a love affair with my German mistress for a tick over 38 years. Smooth, comfortable and can get me in trouble if I choose poorly.
      Simple maintenance, tires, oil and filters, brake pads, antifreeze flush and fill and a bottle of techron every third fillup. Cruise control,self-cancelling                                 signals and a BMW solo seat if I'm going to do some spirited twisties. when I've been to bike nights I'm always impressed with the amount of attention she gets.  Go for the K75s and you won't be disappointed.

       



      Paul B

[faffi]

Why are you so concerned about weight?Arent you the guy that can lift large weights?Ifyou can onlylegally ride 75mph you will never notice the weights.I can easily handle a Norge and I’m 80.

Primarily because my hands and shoulders are worn down from arthritis. I can lift as before, but I cannot push nearly as much. Also, my shed is crowded, the floor sits 4 inches below street level and the door is narrow. But also because weight is detrimental to handling, acceleration, stopping distance and pushing the bike around. It is MUCH more fun to hustle a lightweight motorcycle along a gnarly, winding road that it is to steer a Gold Wing.

[faffi]

talk you out of it?  OK.  Buy a K75 instead like I did last year.

A really, really fine machine.  It was too old man for me when I was 27.  Not sure what happened since then






5000 sweet miles in 14 months.

Yes, it is hot when it's hot but great when it's cool.

When getting one, there are really 2 choices:  fully sorted and a project.  In between are few and far between.  The prpjects are rarely that much of a project.  The big need is a new fuel pump, crankcase breather tube, other rubber bits, and occasionally bad splines.  They really are a bike that "ran when parked" means you can get it running again pretty easily and cheaply.

Yes, the 75 is an option. Smoother engine, nicer sound, around 40 lbs less, give or take. The K75S is the best handling - and arguably best looking - bike of the old K-series, but the fairing does not give a lot of protection.

[faffi]

I liked my SP1000

How is the SP1000 compared to the EV1100?

I have ridden a V7 from 1971, a 1986 Lario, a Cali II, a Cali III and an EV, and did not like any of them other than partially the EV. The EV had the worst riding position I have ever entertained, and it was difficult to get the gearbox from neutral and into either first or 2nd gear. However, it handled like I expect a motorcycle to handle, so with normal pegs and normal riding position I could easily have enjoyed the EV, despite the big dip in torque around 5000 rpm, which probably stemmed from the exhaust system.

[faffi]

Patrol cars?  We don't need no stinkin Patrol Cars! Euro speed cameras are relentless! When I got home from my one-week motorcycle rental in Germany and Switzerland, I had two speeding tickets arrive in the mail almost before I could unpack!  And I was REALLY trying to adhere to the constantly changing speed limits encountered the many small villages we rode through.  Fortunately, they were relatively small fines, 50 euros each, give or take. 

In Norway, you only find speed cameras on the main roads. And they are marked with a signpost well ahead, giving you time to slow down. Plus they show up on the GPS and Google maps.

[faffi]

What am I missing here?  I just confirmed that your national  MAXIMUM speed limit is 50 mph.  Why would you want to own  ANY bike that is big, heavy,
and powerful?  Seems to me that 600 cc or less with good wind protection would be a helluva lot more enjoyable on your twisty roads than the bikes that
are mentioned in this thread.  Of course, it you tour outside your country that is another discussion, but within the confines of your border and the
fine structure in place of exceeding 50 mph, I can't imagine why you would want to frustrate yourself with a big powerful machine you can't use.

I want good weather protection and an engine that does not need constant shifting in the mountains just to be able to climb the inclines.

[faffi]

I had a couple K bikes, both K75s. They gave me effortless miles at any speed I chose.  I found them to be the perfect tool for long distances over flat land where they made me feel I was flying because of the lack of noise or vibration. When I took them to mountains or twisty roads, I missed the torque and handling (and sound, frankly) of my Guzzis. I had to shift the BMW more. Mine were unfaired, so heat was not a problem. The K bikes are top heavy in the garage or at low speed or uneven pavement. The exhaust whine reminded me of George Jetson's suitcase car. I like the design of the K bikes, but then again I like square cars. The early K bikes were about 10 years or so ahead of the market with the fuel injection, stainless exhaust, aluminium fuel tank, single sided swingarm, etc. Properly maintained, they will easily go 200K miles. The 1100s vibrate more than the 750s.

There is no doubt the BMW is more like a tool, while the Guzzi speak also to the emotions. Functionally, which one is best will depend on what the rider is looking for more than anything, as both will get most jobs done well.

[faffi]

     I've had a love affair with my German mistress for a tick over 38 years. Smooth, comfortable and can get me in trouble if I choose poorly.
      Simple maintenance, tires, oil and filters, brake pads, antifreeze flush and fill and a bottle of techron every third fillup. Cruise control,self-cancelling                                 signals and a BMW solo seat if I'm going to do some spirited twisties. when I've been to bike nights I'm always impressed with the amount of attention she gets.  Go for the K75s and you won't be disappointed.

       



      Paul B

Just re-read the road test by Cycle magazine of the K75S back when it was new. They wrote that it was clearly the most sporting and well-handling BMW.

How would you describe the weather protection of you S?

[RinkRat II]

   In the rain, your gloves are not protected and the lowest part of your shin and boots will get wet. The fairing directs 80-90 percent over your helmet 
    as it has an opening in the lower front to help direct air up and behind the screen.  All can be dealt with wearing proper gear. Also, the heat that's
    been mentioned is only noticeable on the right leg in the hottest parts of the year.   I lived in Phoenix and rode her to work every day for 25 years,
    only in the summer did i have to readjust my right leg position in slow or stopped traffic. One major improvement in handling I made was to install a Works Performance  rear shock.   

   Paul B

[PJPR01]

I want good weather protection and an engine that does not need constant shifting in the mountains just to be able to climb the inclines.

Imagine a Norge in Norge...oh the irony!

Well, if the criteria of not wanting to shift is in the cards, perhaps a Honda Africa Twin DCT would be in order as the Goldwing is too large a bike I imagine?

[Perazzimx14]

I looked up Moto Guzzi on AI today and it comes up Italian Davidson. Bold new colors and the same old same old. Resist change!

[faffi]

@PJPR01: Gold Wing is much too big, a bike not built for Norwegian roads, great as the bike may be.

I am not against shifting gears, I dislike engines that due to narrow power-bands and/or useful rev range demand constant shifting. Shifting can be fun, like riding a 250 on a narrow, winding road. For a while. Then it - for me - become tedious.

I have ridden Honda DCT and really disliked it, just like I dislike the DCT version of my Skoda, because the gearbox and I often disagree on what should happen next. Which is why I chose a manual in my car. The small 1.4 liter turbo inline four in my Octavia is happy from 40 mph upwards in 6th gear on level ground, and above 55 there is hardly a situation that demand a downshift this side of rapid passing. That is the kind of flexibility I like.

Oh, and you do see the odd Norge in Norge, although Guzzi have never been a major player in the Norwegian market.

[Muzz]

The only four I've ever considered is a Ducati Panigale. I've ridden a couple of K bikes and just thought they were boring compared to a twin and the Panigale sounds like a hyper twin but there is the cost, even in the used column.  IMO I'd buy a late model Mandelo S but technically that falls into the Sport Touring category but so does the Norge.

The thing that would put me off the Panigale Tom (faffi did ask for talking him out of it) is the maintenance of it. I gather it is a very nice bike but owning a Guzzi hammers home the ease of maintenance of it, and the lack of ease of the Ducati multis. The cost of the Ducati dealer doing it is eye watering.

[SIR REAL ED]

Huzo - you have such a way with the language. :-)

If you think his writing is impressive, you should hear him speak!

Not exactly the King's English, but he does get his point across...

[SIR REAL ED]

Maybe this old story will help??? Been posted a few times. Maybe posted by Wirespokes:

BMWs are like the Hot German Scientist chick. Glasses, prim, mannered, efficient. She can solve quadratic equations while kicking your ass with kung-fu moves. You have to approach her on her terms and then she will bring you ecstasy in the most efficient manner possible using techniques she learned from an ancient Kama Sutra she discovered on a sabbatical in India.

Guzzis on the other hand, are the art school wild child. long, wind-tossed hair and mischievous winks. She will redecorate your house into a turkish harem while you are away on a business trip and greet you with absinthe tainted kisses. You will go out for pizza with her and wind up somewhere in the Mojave, tequila drunk and shooting cactus with a stolen pistol.

Tom

Oddly enough, I always looked at bikes and women as two different things.

Although I do remember some weird dreams about wether a women was a two stroke, a four stroke, a twin cylinder, or a three cylinder....

I never seemed to resolve any of those questions....

[Stretch]

I've always felt that forums like this were meant to be populated with enablers.

So buy one!  You know you want to!  Do it NOW before you change your mind!

I have a K75S. The K 75 and K100 share many, many components,
and the flaws and strengths are mostly similar.

Plusses: The engine is magnificent. Smooth, torquey, robust, easy
to work on for the most part, and it has a reputation for lasting
nearly forever. The bike handles well, although it steers a wee bit slowly
by modern standards. Stable at speed, brakes are good, but not great.
The bike really begins to make sense at 70 - 80+, especially on what the Brits
might refer to as, 'A' roads. Lovely on the Interstate at that speed.
Many maintenance parts are interchangeable with car parts, and the
engine really doesn't care much what oil is used. Work on it yourself, and
they are fairly inexpensive to keep on the road. Lots of information online.

Minuses: Corbin seat not the most comfortable for me, but then it ain't
a BMW part. Electrics can be problematic. The starting circuit is a complicated
Rube Goldberg affair, for instance. Some of the plugs and wiring
are not of the highest quality, but there are workarounds.

                                                          -Stretch

[Huzo]

Imagine a Norge in Norge...oh the irony!

Ok, I will…

[faffi]

Ok, I will…

Pity the bike's in Denmark when the picture was taken 

This was taken in Norway

[faffi]

I remembered that I have a comparison test of the SP III and R100RT from 1989 in my archive. The natural thing was of course to read it. And while test reports have limited value, it does give an indication. And the test reminded me of why I did not enjoy riding "traditional" Guzzis, for lack of a better word. The EV is the first Guzzi I rode that felt like a normal motorcycle, as do my V9. At least for someone having grown up around Japanese motorcycles.

Dislikes of the SP III (for me)
- Speedo with 30 kph steps hard to read
- Dim idiot lights
- Engine slow to rev up and slow down
- Substantial engine vibrations
- Harsh suspension (can of course be fixed, but the limited rear wheel travel will always be problematic)
- Linked brakes
- Slow steering, with the resulting disdain for hairpins
- Heavy steering
- Engine lacking low-end grunt
- Noisy turbulence behind the fairing (same for the BMW RT, be that R100 or K100, can be fixed with different screen and spoiler)

There is also the lack of load capacity (only 172kg / 379 lbs) that will prevent two-up riding for many (I only ride solo, so no concern for me). Wet weight is just below that of the K100RT at 268 kg / 591 lbs.

Apart from the turbulence behind the screen, which affected the R100RT even more, weather protection was said to be good. Saddlebags from Givi make the bike very wide indeed.

While I am no fan of the SP III's look, it is no better or worse than the K100RT, meaning I could live with it. The SP-NT / SP I / SP II looks much better to me, but the rest of the bike does not tempt me. It would be cool to see Guzzi produce a V7 850 SP, but I doubt it will happen; the medium-sized touring bike have gone distinct, meaning sales would likely be slow and low. Even sports tourers have changed quite a bit, where styling is more important than wind and weather protection.

[Perazzimx14]

I want good weather protection and an engine that does not need constant shifting in the mountains just to be able to climb the inclines.

This screams BMW R1200RT. Excellent weather/wind protection and the big boxer is happy chunking it into 3rd or 4th gear and rolling on/off the throttle with the bonus of very good handling.

When I had my DL650 riding the mountains was continuous shifting to keep it in the power. Go into a turn and it was downshift 5, 4, 3, and sometime 2 then coming out of the turn it was upshift 2, 3, 4, 5. When I got my 1st R1200GS on the same roads it was 3rd gear and roll on/off the throttle and leave the shifter alone. The big twin has gobs of torque to power out of turns.

[blackcat]

The thing that would put me off the Panigale Tom (faffi did ask for talking him out of it) is the maintenance of it. I gather it is a very nice bike but owning a Guzzi hammers home the ease of maintenance of it, and the lack of ease of the Ducati multis. The cost of the Ducati dealer doing it is eye watering.

I believe that the valve adjustment is around 15,000 miles on those bikes, but what an engine. And if you're going to spend that kind of money on those bikes, what's a little high maintenance cost every.....5+ years? Realistically, I'd probably not put a lot of miles on that bike, just the way I don't put a lot of miles on the Daytona.