Quickshifter for V85?

[1wild1]

Quick overview of the topic. so long as you rev match the harm is not that great on the gears.  I sometimes wont use the clutch on the V85, more on 4-6. it is easily do able without the use of another device. A slight clunk is not bad, grinding noises are.

"While some motorcycle transmissions may incorporate synchromesh for smoother engagement, especially in certain touring or cruiser models, the vast majority of sports and racing motorcycles use unsynchronized, dog-engaged gearboxes.
 These are often referred to as "dog boxes" or "sequential dog boxes" and are designed for rapid, precise shifting, often without the need for a clutch.
 The absence of synchromesh means that riders must manually match engine revs to gear speeds to avoid grinding, but this also enables quicker shifts, which is critical in racing environments."

[Huzo]

Quick overview of the topic. so long as you rev match the harm is not that great on the gears.  I sometimes wont use the clutch on the V85, more on 4-6. it is easily do able without the use of another device. A slight clunk is not bad, grinding noises are.

"While some motorcycle transmissions may incorporate synchromesh for smoother engagement, especially in certain touring or cruiser models, the vast majority of sports and racing motorcycles use unsynchronized, dog-engaged gearboxes.
 These are often referred to as "dog boxes" or "sequential dog boxes" and are designed for rapid, precise shifting, often without the need for a clutch.
 The absence of synchromesh means that riders must manually match engine revs to gear speeds to avoid grinding, but this also enables quicker shifts, which is critical in racing environments."

That’s wonderful news, but the question is how do you “rev match” if you do not crack the clutch, I’ve dined greedily on most of the word salads served up in the preceding posts, but have not had that question addressed.

[1wild1]

Upshifts are easy, just let off the throttle for a split second and  back on it. You drop the rpm's to match the next gear.  next time you are riding in 3rd or 4th on the gas, give a pressure up on the shift lever then  ease of the gas and it will glide right in. Then work on the timing of off throttle just long enough for it to want to shift then right on the throttle like you would using the clutch only half the time.  Then try downshifting from 6th to 5th, less off the gas than upshift and as you are hitting the lever down you slightly rev it.  This will seem smoother at first and easier to try.   It is easier at higher rpm's, at least over 4k.  1-2 and 2-3 is gonna be the harder ones with the greater rpm change. I don't push it that hard. But 3rd and up I have if I'm playing and rinning hard.There's no way to tell you exactly how it's done, it's a lot of feel.   If you watch the schaff video on the v85 he runs the first half with no clutch giving a very good demo of how it's done. Even without the rev matching or easing the gas for a split second, enough force will cause the shift to happen.  I'm at 27k miles and I will hear a slight clunk 1-2-3 but not feel anything.  My honda fury clunks about twice as loud as the MG. my sons bmw s1000r QS is  super smooth and I wish we could have it that good, but we like it old school, right.

[Huzo]

I can crash it through without any problem too but, as you rev it up with the damn clutch engaged, please tell me how that will “increase the revs..”
Please answer THAT question..
When the clutch is not pulled, increasing the throttle will not increase the revs..(unless you let the bike speed up.)
Just admit that you can get away with it, please don’t tell me you know why.
But I’ll tell you.
You WON’t get away with it forever, but the next guy who gets it will pay your bill…

[Huzo]

You drop the rpm's to match the next gear.

Have you read what you just posted ?
Is that done with the clutch still engaged ? Lever still out ?
Will your revs drop with the clutch lever not pulled in ?

[jacksonracingcomau]

I think we all agree, it’s the outoblip feature of downshift qs that’s the clever bit, no need to pull the clutch.
How ?

Reminds me of paddy, on telly
Favourite invention?
Thermos
Why.?
It keeps things cold and it keeps things hot
Yes paddy
But howdafuk does it know?

[Huzo]

Ok that’s it…
Plenty of pivoting and semi witty responses, but no actual answers.

[Moparnut72]

You have to realize that the gear boxes in most bikes with longitudinal crankshafts have a harder job. There is no reduction in rpm to the gearbox like most bikes so the main shaft is spinning at crankshaft speeds making for a noisier shift as the dogs engage at a higher speed. I watched a video yesterday day of a test ride on a BMW R12S, talk about clunky shifting.
kk

[1wild1]

Have you read what you just posted ?
Is that done with the clutch still engaged ? Lever still out ?
Will your revs drop with the clutch lever not pulled in ?

I have no idea why you started this conversation.  If a video showing how is not good enough then don't do it.  It's that simple.  It comes across as you saying" but how do you feel the music?"  There is no actual answer.....
Think of it this way.  When you pull in the clutch the gears inside of the transmission are still spinning the same speed as before the clutch is puled in and you shift. Those gears are still experiencing the speed difference of them coming together and engaging but because the clutch is not engaged the shock is internal to the transmission with the rest of the drivetrain stress relieved . With or without the clutch the gears in the transmission are doing the same thing at the same speed difference when engaging, you are only taking out the motors torque. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN THE TRANSMISSION WHERE THE MAJORITY OF STRESS IS, that is why it clunks. When letting off the gas until the drivetrain is unloaded there is less stress than pullng in the clutch and using the clutch friction to drop the rpms.  Taking off from a dead stop would be a lot more pressure on the drive system than a clutchless shift. You are wanting excact rpm's to let the motor drop. A rider does not need to know all of the gear ratios and what the prm's will be at a the next gear change.  You simply need to relieve the stress on the drivetrain.  If you do not re apply the gas in the next gear it is no difference than just letting off the gas in that next gear for engine braking. The stress on the engine is not increased by a significant amount. The cush drive in the wheel can handle a lot more stress than the shift will cause.

18 wheelers would go through clutches all the time if they did not float gears.  The drivers are not watching and memorizing the rpm diferences for all those gears.  It is a feeling thing.
https://youtu.be/H9AfflC2yRE?si=7htaVwnoAGV6icAH

[1wild1]

why they call it a dog gear and how it works.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8h7SCjiU314
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RikzgmPvmnE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU1Ol5ZgRnI

[Vagrant]

It's sunny and clear here today. It might even hit 50 degrees. I'm going to hop on the V85, hit TWO in Suches and about 400 curves on the way up. Somewhere along the way I will forget I ever read this discussion while using the fingers on my left hand to shift up and down just like they have done for over a million miles and over 60 years.
Carry on!

[inditx]

This fellow makes the argument that autoshifters actually cause less wear on the gears.
I guess he should know since he makes them.

Check out this article;
https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/products/motorcycle-technology/motorcycle-quickshifters-are-they-safe-how-work

inditx

[ridingron]

Didn't watch the video, but when a producer of a product pushes it, it seems like an advertisement.

[Huzo]

Didn't watch the video, but when a producer of a product pushes it, it seems like an asvertisement.

Yep.

[kingoffleece]

I'm with Vagrant. 

[Huzo]

This fellow makes the argument that autoshifters actually cause less wear on the gears.
I guess he should know since he makes them.

Check out this article;
https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/products/motorcycle-technology/motorcycle-quickshifters-are-they-safe-how-work

inditx

Troy Mc Lure…