“Innovate or die?”

[Clifton]

The VRod engine is/was a great power plant to ride......

The bike that housed is a totally different story.  it was not great or even well-developed imho.  Unless you had a Street Rod version with mid bike footpegs, the forward riding pegs found on the rest of the bikes locked you into a generally uncomfortable non-negotiable position.

You echo what I heard from everyone I knew who had a V-Rod.

The current lineup of CVOs and "Specials" do nothing for me. I hope their new president, Mr Starrs, can right the ship.

[blackcat]

"I believe the Live Wire wasn't only rejected by current Harley owners it was rejected by everyone."

Unless you took one for a ride because I really liked that bike, wicked fast and handles really well but price was the only problem for a limited focus bike.

[Clifton]

"I believe the Live Wire wasn't only rejected by current Harley owners it was rejected by everyone."

Unless you took one for a ride because I really liked that bike, wicked fast and handles really well but price was the only problem for a limited focus bike.

Battery vehicles can accelerate very quickly and Live Wire is no exception, but I don't believe price was its only problem it had others, like a range from fully charged to walking of 75 miles at 75 mph.

[cliffrod]

You echo what I heard from everyone I knew who had a V-Rod.

The current lineup of CVOs and "Specials" do nothing for me. I hope their new president, Mr Starrs, can right the ship.

I have always wanted to do a VR1000-themed cafe bike built around the VRod engine.  That’s the origin of the platform.  Even if it wasn’t the race bike that some hoped it would be, that engine in a street sport bike would be a lot of fun & probably equitable to what a Buell offered.

Between the recurring themes towards nostalgia, demise of Buell, the wholesale disposal of the air-cooled Sportster platform to foreign interests (still hard to fathom that decision) and the expansion of the water-cooled bikes in HD offerings, such as bike would seem to be a no-brainer.  But Harley Davidson didn’t ask me.  The more complex and less user-friendly (and less easily modified/customized beyond bolt on chrome) that their bikes get, the more their bikes become like all the rest.  After the drunken glory days of the 90’s-early 2000’s and the seemingly hangover-based bad decisions of recent years,  not sure where it will end for HD.

FWIW, the topics in the thread made me chuckle a little.  A now-deceased friend named Sam Greenway secured a franchise and opened Fayetteville Harley Davidson shortly after returning from service in WWII.  Pretty sure he got the franchise in 1947.  He soon added a Schwinn Bicycle dealership under the same roof.  By 1955, he relinquished his HD franchise to focus upon selling Schwinn bikes for the next 25 years.  Said he made more money and had far fewer headaches. He retired to this area around 1980, so got out before it all died for the real Schwinn.

[Bulldog9]

I think there is a clear and distinct line between innovation and diversifying, and most manufacturers/businesses fail when they try to expand or diversify too far beyond their 'core competencies' I think it is part of why the slow selling not popular Guzzi brand has survived.

Let's use the V7 and V85 as an example. Guzzi has consistently innovated and developed these platforms. Just in the V7 alone from its re-introduction in 2008 (?), to today. Very similar/Same at first glance, but substantially different and arguably 'improved' in every way.

V7 Classic (2008–2014) — 744 cc engine (~48 hp), five-speed gearbox, classic styling inspired by the originals. Initially had plastic tank, dual throttle bodies, but in 2013 (?) went to metal tank and single TB.
 
V7 II (2014–2016/2017) — Major platform update: Six-speed gearbox, ABS, Traction control, Revised engine mounting (cylinders tilted forward for better ergonomics), Repositioned footpegs and improved chassis.

V7 III (2017–2020) — More powerful and refined 744 cc "HEMI" head Euro 4 engine (~52 hp), Improved suspension, clutch, and gearbox, Better electronics (optional connectivity)

V7 IV (2021–2025) — Fourth generation V7 850. The most significant update yet: Revised 853 cc engine, 65 hp and more torque, Chassis and seating improvements, LED lighting, other tech developments.

V7 V (2026-present) - Ride by Wire, ride modes, cruise, larger Throttle Body, Euro 5 compliant, USD fork and twin front disk options,
Improved performance, refinement, and fuel efficiency.

The lines are a bit muddled for me on the 2024-2026 updates and changes apart from the V7 Sport and new 2026 options, but my point is that the V7 has been kept fresh, DOING WHAT GUZZI DOES BEST and remains one of the purest expressions of Moto Guzzi's heritage: transverse V-twin, shaft final drive, steel frame, and timeless Italian roadster character, while incorporating modern safety and refinement. The V7 has spanned police bikes, sport models, customs, and modern classics — continuously evolving while staying true to its roots.

They DONT need to do a sports bike Harley competitor and have an offering in EVERY corner of the market............. ...  Yes, they have the V85 and that has also been kept fresh, and it seems they are looking forward and develop the V100 chassis.

As much as I love them, the CARC bikes and 1400's had no longevity compared to the V7. The modern V7 is almost 20 year run the V85 is almost 10. BOTH are going strong.

It's a Marketing thing. Stay in your Niche, and do it the BEST......... Innovate and make it better, EXPAND in that range, don't try to have a model in every niche. BE your Niche. Innovation is better than diversification.

[blackcat]

Battery vehicles can accelerate very quickly and Live Wire is no exception, but I don't believe price was its only problem it had others, like a range from fully charged to walking of 75 miles at 75 mph.

Yes, limited focus bike but it is a hoot to ride.

"The Harley-Davidson LiveWire ONE (now just LiveWire ONE) offers a claimed range of 146 miles in the city, 95 miles combined, and around 70-71 miles on the highway, but real-world range varies significantly with speed, riding style, and conditions, with some owners experiencing 80-130+ miles depending on usage."

[Stretch]

and around 70-71 miles on the highway

And they were trying to make a go of things with a range like THAT?!   
That's less than an hour's ride at interstate speeds.

There are ICE bikes with tiny tanks - Harley Sportsters for instance - but
filling them back up with fuel is a matter of a few minutes, not half an hour
plus, if you can find a charging station.

                                                     -Stretch