New title: Dumpster fire on aisle 5! (OK, how badly did I xxx_up this time?

[Anomaly]

Bike: 1981 T3 California. While waiting for a new front tire to come in (different story...), I decide "hey, now would be a good time for some annal maintenance". So, I decide to change the oil in the bevel box/rear drive/final drive/the last thing at the back where oil goes in.... And, following Richardson, I drain all the old stuff out, avoid the level plug, put 230+20 (gear oil plus moly) in the fill hole, new crush washers (another story..) all around. THEN I actually read the fine print on the back of the Motul 80W90 (mineral) "Gearbox" oil that I bought just for this job, and it says it is "reinforced" with moly.... What have I done? Have I OD'd the bike on moly?  i haven't ridden it since doing this, no front tire... and can drain it all out and start over if necessary. What do the smarter folks on here say? Thanks,

[scra99tch]

What color was the reinforced gear oil?  If not black then theres probably very little to begin with as long as you put your own blend in I would have to say you're good to go.  Meshed helical bevel gears "sliding surface" love the stuff.

[Anomaly]

What color was the reinforced gear oil?  If not black then theres probably very little to being with as long as you put your own blend in I would have to say you're good to go.  Meshed helical gears "sliding surface" love the stuff.

Straight out of the bottle it was kind of a grey/black... Call it grey.

[guzzisteve]

You are fine, different moly. There are different kind of moly's. Carry on. I had the same OH MY in 07 when I was using newer oils I was not familiar with. Like you I read the bottle, then researched the different moly's. I only used Dino oil's before in my shop.

[Anomaly]

Thanks Steve. I'll carry on- to my next learning experience!

[SIR REAL ED]

The only thing you can be certain of, when it comes to any kind of oil, is someone else is using better stuff than you are!

Also, that you should be ashamed of yourself for not using the magical stuff they are using!!!

Their bikes usually have at least 1,000,000 miles on them, they are getting over 120 miles per gallon, and their last compression test was 240 psi on the original rings!

Any problem you ever have with your bike, including flat tires and light bulbs burning out, can always be traced back to using the wrong oil!!!!

[Anomaly]

The only thing you can be certain of, when it comes to any kind of oil, is someone else is using better stuff than you are!
....

This is a special place... (Thanks Ed, I see now that my real mistake was not the moly amount, it was that I started an oil thread (of sorts) 

[guzzisteve]

No, it was that you read the bottle like me.

[Anomaly]

No, it was that you read the bottle like me.

Reading- it can mess you up...

[SIR REAL ED]

This is a special place... (Thanks Ed, I see now that my real mistake was not the moly amount, it was that I started an oil thread (of sorts) 

Not a mistake on your part at all.

Oil threads are like space exploration.

The goal is: "To boldly go where no man has gone before!"

If we don't expand the limits of human knowledge, who will?

[Moparnut72]

I don't think it matters what vehicle is being discussed there is always oil discussions. I just bought a Jeep Gladiator a month ago. Naturally I am on a Jeep forum. It hardly matters which thread I am on the controversy of using the 0-20 recommended by the factory will destroy the engine or that 5-30 is the ultimate panacea. Many years ago I remember the owner of Aurora Honda/BMW saying he had seen more damage done by lack of rather than the brand of oil when an oil discussion broke out.
kk

[SIR REAL ED]

I don't think it matters what vehicle is being discussed there is always oil discussions. I just bought a Jeep Gladiator a month ago. Naturally I am on a Jeep forum. It hardly matters which thread I am on the controversy of using the 0-20 recommended by the factory will destroy the engine or that 5-30 is the ultimate panacea. Many years ago I remember the owner of Aurora Honda/BMW saying he had seen more damage done by lack of rather than the brand of oil when an oil discussion broke out.
kk

I agree.  To my knowledge, an oil failure has never happened in an OEM vehicle. 

Perhaps in some high stress racing situations, but proof of oil failure would be an interesting result to prove.

[guzziart]

Bike: 1981 T3 California. While waiting for a new front tire to come in (different story...), I decide "hey, now would be a good time for some annal maintenance". So, I decide to change the oil in the bevel box/rear drive/final drive/the last thing at the back where oil goes in.... And, following Richardson, I drain all the old stuff out, avoid the level plug, put 230+20 (gear oil plus moly) in the fill hole, new crush washers (another story..) all around. THEN I actually read the fine print on the back of the Motul 80W90 (mineral) "Gearbox" oil that I bought just for this job, and it says it is "reinforced" with moly.... What have I done? Have I OD'd the bike on moly?  i haven't ridden it since doing this, no front tire... and can drain it all out and start over if necessary. What do the smarter folks on here say? Thanks,

 :laugh:I used to be concerned about myself doing something ignorant but these days if I pulled a stunt like what you describe I'd just say to myself "well, it looks like we're running a little extra moly this service interval".

[n3303j]

This is what Moly does for your roller bearings. Modern Extreme Pressure gear oil doesn't need fine metal particles (moly) added to it. Moly piles up in front of the rollers and stops them from turning. They skid along the races and carve them to shreds. Moly is "snake oil", like STP or Slick 50, etc.

[Anomaly]

This is what Moly does for your roller bearings. Modern Extreme Pressure gear oil doesn't need fine metal particles (moly) added to it. Moly piles up in front of the rollers and stops them from turning. They skid along the races and carve them to shreds. Moly is "snake oil", like STP or Slick 50, etc.

OK, now I'm confused (again).....

[n3303j]

I've replaced roller bearings in two Guzzi I bought where there was Molyinthe final drive. Never saw similar problems in BMW final drive that just ran EP gear oil.

If it were me I'd flush your final drive with kerosene or mineral spirits until you got the Moly out. Then replenish with a proper EP Gear oil.
I'm a fan of Amsoil Severe Gear oil in the appropriate weight. But there're many other quality products out there. Oil has gotten a lot better since the '70s. There are formulas for most applications and they don't need to be adulterated.

[73 sport]

  Moly was originally developed as a dry lubricant. It can be extremely destructive to bearings when used in lubricating oil. Ron has put it very succinctly. When used in lubricating oil, its pure marketing, snake oil.

[BMCMOTO]

My friend the 86 year old gear cutter says that moly additives can be tough on small needle roller bearings like used on the outer side of the crown wheel shaft on Guzzis.  His theory is that the moly can accumulate on the outer diameter of the needle causing the needle to grow to large for the containment of the outer bearing thereby causing the needle to shatter then traveling throughout the rear drive unit causing damage to both the crown wheel and the pinion.  The former leads me to the thought that more is definitely not a good thing in the case of moly in connection with rolling element bearings.  I also took note of Dow not mentioning its use for rolling element bearings, they do mention its use for plain bearings. I don't use it anymore.

Brian

[ridingron]

I seem to recall a quote.


 "Oil is good, use some."

Why are you adding stuff to an oil made for the purpose you're using it for?

[Anomaly]

Why are you adding stuff to an oil made for the purpose you're using it for?

Why am I adding an additive that the manufacturer (I e., Guzzi) recommends? Uh.... because the manufacturer recommends it?

[sdcr]

Hijacking this thread with a blinker question.

What weight blinker fluid should I use during the summer months?  I’ve always selected 50 weight, but last  summer, I changed to 75/90 weight. Can this cause wiring, bulb or tire pressure issues?

[n3303j]

Why am I adding an additive that the manufacturer (I e., Guzzi) recommends? Uh.... because the manufacturer recommends it?

'98 V11EV Manual recommends adding Agip Rocol ASO/R;

 "Agip Rocol ASO/R (now often branded as ROCOL ASO Oil Reinforcement) is a high-performance molybdenum disulphide additive designed for non-EP (Extreme Pressure) mineral oils. It is commonly specified for vintage Moto Guzzi rear drives and gearboxes to increase load capacity, reduce wear, and protect during cold starts."

Key word being "for non-EP mineral oils". You should be running an EP (Extreme Pressure) oil in the final drive. Don't have to formulate your own. Oils have improved in the last 50 years. The new stuff works better.

[SIR REAL ED]

I seem to recall a quote.


 "Oil is good, use some."

Excellent advice!

The eternal question is "Some of what?"   

[SIR REAL ED]

Hijacking this thread with a blinker question.

What weight blinker fluid should I use during the summer months?  I’ve always selected 50 weight, but last  summer, I changed to 75/90 weight. Can this cause wiring, bulb or tire pressure issues?

Yes, all of the above are now less reliable!

As we used to say to each other as children:  "Nice play, OX!"

Drain and refill before May 1st and you should be fine......

I prefer the Gluton free blinker fluid myself!  Tastes great!  Less filling!

[guzziart]

'98 V11EV Manual recommends adding Agip Rocol ASO/R;

 "Agip Rocol ASO/R (now often branded as ROCOL ASO Oil Reinforcement) is a high-performance molybdenum disulphide additive designed for non-EP (Extreme Pressure) mineral oils. It is commonly specified for vintage Moto Guzzi rear drives and gearboxes to increase load capacity, reduce wear, and protect during cold starts."

Key word being "for non-EP mineral oils". You should be running an EP (Extreme Pressure) oil in the final drive. Don't have to formulate your own. Oils have improved in the last 50 years. The new stuff works better.

Ok, for the ignorant part of me, you're saying if I'm running currently produced EP gear oil in the rear drive of the Eldo, I no longer need to add the MG specified moly lube too.  Am I understanding that correctly? 

[n3303j]

Ok, for the ignorant part of me, you're saying if I'm running currently produced EP gear oil in the rear drive of the Eldo, I no longer need to add the MG specified moly lube too.  Am I understanding that correctly?

YES!
Ran a number of BMW, Ural and Moto Guzzi final drives to 100,000 miles. Visual inspection shows pristine bearing surfaces and well burnished gear interfaces. No abnormal wear.

[Vagrant]

Yes you are.

[guzziart]

Hey Anomaly.....
I think I screwed up too but not with "reinforced" gear oil .  From what I tell, from Loop & Tonti owners manuals, MG never specified any moly additive in the rear drive of the Loops but did specify it for the Tonti's.  I've been using EP 80w90 gear oil in both (Loop & Tonti) along with 20cc of moly additive.  I guess I'll discontinue using the moly additive in both.  I wish I could recall why I found it necessary to put the additive in the Eldo when it wasn't called for in the owners manual.  Geez I hate getting older & older and dumber & dumber but like the idea of not having to worry about adding moly anymore.  I wonder if this is the shortest ever oil thread here.  Oh well.
Art