HD bringing back air cooled 883 Sportster

[bad Chad]

https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-news/harley-davidson-to-revive-883-sportster/

[Moparnut72]

This is probably a good thing. However we were told Harley sold all the plans and tooling to a Chinese company. Either that wasn't true or Harley will have to start from scratch. They will have to do some redesign to be able to meet emissions. I liked my Sportster except for the horrible suspension. Stay tuned.
kk

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

This is probably a good thing. However we were told Harley sold all the plans and tooling to a Chinese company. Either that wasn't true or Harley will have to start from scratch. They will have to do some redesign to be able to meet emissions. I liked my Sportster except for the horrible suspension. Stay tuned.
kk

Any source to that? I suspect this is in reference to the SWM Stormbreaker V1200. I haven't found anything to indicate that's associated with Harley-Davidson, just another reverse engineered copycat bike. Don't forget, Japanese brands were doing similar blatant copying across brands decades ago.

The RevMax engine is awesome, but IMO doesn't belong in the Sportster other than that it probably makes it easier for them to sell the bike globally with much of the world using Euro emissions.

I see the Hero single cylinder bike as a compromise, it fills the void of having an entry level motorcycles and one to use for Harley's Rider Academies, but it's not manufactured by Harley. Looking at Harley's history, badge engineered bikes (Aermacchi) have kept them afloat during difficult times before, and we've recently seen Ural do something similar, introduce a bike made by a different manufacturer with their branding in an effort to offer a more affordable model in an attempt to keep their company alive.

[blu guzz]

There are so many terrific low mileage Sportys around at crazy cheap money if someone wants one.  I would see that fact as their largest competitor if they brought out a new "Chorty".

[cliffrod]

That’s good news to hear.  Killing off the Sportster seemed like a very poor decision.

[cliffrod]

Any source to that? I suspect this is in reference to the SWM Stormbreaker V1200. I haven't found anything to indicate that's associated with Harley-Davidson, just another reverse engineered copycat bike. Don't forget, Japanese brands were doing similar blatant copying across brands decades ago…..

Thought I posted this video last fall, with more info about the HD sportster-Shineray-SMW connection but cannot find the thread so here it is again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otl5KQBXVbE

[Moparnut72]

Any source to that? I suspect this is in reference to the SWM Stormbreaker V1200. I haven't found anything to indicate that's associated with Harley-Davidson, just another reverse engineered copycat bike. Don't forget, Japanese brands were doing similar blatant copying across brands decades ago.

Very true, but I read that in more than one place. I can't remember where but they were fairly reputable sources. Most likely not true if Harley can bring it back at a reasonable cost they must still have everything. However as much as Harley protects everything from infringement I find it hard to believe that another company was able to do that much copycatting without some push back. Who knows for sure but I wish them the best.
kk

[kballowe]

The new Harley Sportster and Nightster bikes are made in Thailand (along with the Pan American) and are a stark departure from the previous Sportster Styling.

I don't know if this is better or if it is worse, but I can say that the new style is ugly mugly.

One thing about the previous style of "Sportster" is that many parts will interchange.

Here's an '05 1200R with V-Rod front rotors and Brembo 4-piston calipers.  The handlebar switchgear is from a late model bagger.  Direct bolt-on.  And aftermarket support is most excellent.

[bad Chad]

Clearly, if HD did sell the plans and tooling to another company, they must have retained the right and enough tooling to make them again if they chose to.

[TN Mark]

More likely is they did sell the rights and the tooling to China a few years back. So, now they’re coming out with their own updated version.

[Clifton]

Here's an '05 1200R with V-Rod front rotors and Brembo 4-piston calipers.  The handlebar switchgear is from a late model bagger.  Direct bolt-on.  And aftermarket support is most excellent.

Stock brakes on the 1200R aren't terrible but those would probably be a nice improvement.

Here's my stock XL1200R (yes including exhaust) other than the seat.





It seems odd that Harley is bringing the air cooled Sportster back as 883 instead of 1200.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Thought I posted this video last fall, with more info about the HD sportster-Shineray-SMW connection but cannot find the thread so here it is again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otl5KQBXVbE

I watched that video and found a guy being lead to conclusions by AI generated responses without any sources cited. If you type questions into Google or ChatGPT, running into wrong answers and "AI hallucinations" isn't uncommon. I think that if any of those events happened, Harley selling the blueprints or the production line, there would be leaked evidence from it and employees unofficially confirming it. Shineray producing a reverse engineered clone makes more sense to me, especially when the bike's design is so old that little of it other than logos has legal protection from being copied, and the majority of the bike was already available as aftermarket reproduction parts. You'll note that SWM haven't touted bringing it to the US market, where Harley-Davidson would have a leg up in court against them for selling a knock-off.

Bringing the 883 back makes sense to me because it was the cheaper model and more suitable as an entry level bike. Not just an engine difference, but different trim, suspension, brakes, etc. Sure their customer base want the 1200 back and are more vocal about that, but people want bigger and better until it comes time to actually buy it and then fewer come through. I suspect that 883 to 1200 kits would see a revival just as they weren't uncommon on the original bikes when people started with the economy model and later found they desired more performance out of it.

[Clifton]

I still feel the Sportster should have the 1200 motor and boring the same motor only to 883 is a mistake. The bike will be selling for around $10,000 which might be an entry price point for Harley but $10,000 is not a cheap motorcycle. Making it a 1200 costs HD nothing yet adds value for the customer.

[cliffrod]

I watched that video and found a guy being lead to conclusions by AI generated responses without any sources cited. If you type questions into Google or ChatGPT, running into wrong answers and "AI hallucinations" isn't uncommon. I think that if any of those events happened, Harley selling the blueprints or the production line, there would be leaked evidence from it and employees unofficially confirming it. Shineray producing a reverse engineered clone makes more sense to me, especially when the bike's design is so old that little of it other than logos has legal protection from being copied, and the majority of the bike was already available as aftermarket reproduction parts. You'll note that SWM haven't touted bringing it to the US market, where Harley-Davidson would have a leg up in court against them for selling a knock-off.

Bringing the 883 back makes sense to me because it was the cheaper model and more suitable as an entry level bike. Not just an engine difference, but different trim, suspension, brakes, etc. Sure their customer base want the 1200 back and are more vocal about that, but people want bigger and better until it comes time to actually buy it and then fewer come through. I suspect that 883 to 1200 kits would see a revival just as they weren't uncommon on the original bikes when people started with the economy model and later found they desired more performance out of it.

I can’t independently verify what is posted in the video.  Not into AI, either.

I can attest to the voracity of HD’s legal dept, who sent a cease and desist letter to my best friend after using a similar #1 in his first logo after opening the shop.  They rank up there with ASCAP (we were similarly “contacted” by them, too), in terms of willingness to pursue such matters in the situations they choose and then win$$$ if you decide to fight them.  If you’re smart, you don’t fight either of them. It seems difficult to believe that it was all a big coincidence of impeccable timing and HD was just going to look the other way this time.

At this point, I don’t care about the details.  I’m glad to see the plain sportster coming back to life. That’s what matters to me.

[TN Mark]

If they bring out a new Sportster in 883, you know darn well they’ll also bring out a 1200.
H-D likes to up charge.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

I'm not into AI either, with this being a good example of it potentially giving misleading information. If you type the exact query he based that video on into Google today it will give a completely different generated response that is in contradiction to what was presented in his video, stating it's a clone and Harley had no involvement and didn't provide them with anything. As for HD's legal department, I'm sure they do go after folks using anything that looks like their logos, but for parts, interchangeable aftermarket and reproduction parts have been around for Sportsters and Evos for a long time, and clearly Harley hasn't put a stop to that for Colony, S&S, V-Twin, Drag Specialties, Custom Chrome, Paughco, Lowbrow Customs, etc. I think Shineray took the discontinuation of the Evo Sportster as their go ahead for a full clone specifically because at that point they'd have less legal risk. Harley aren't likely to take them to court in Europe to defend a discontinued model introduced in 1986.

As for the 883 vs 1200, yes it would cost Harley nearly nothing to do the 1200 motor, but with the 883 they can make a cheaper bike all around with lesser spec parts that one would want to upgrade for the more powerful 1200. Makes sense to me to bring them both back for the two pricing tiers same as before, but starting with the 883 seems sensible. Maybe a 1200 will follow.

[Motormike]

I always found the 883 to be slow as molasses.  The 1200 was the only Sportster I ever rode that had an amount of hp that made it entertaining.  They are versatile bikes that can have a huge aftermarket following of parts and accessory.  Can't imagine it being made in Milwaukee at a price that would be profitable, and if it's made overseas that will crimp its appeal to US riders.  Time will tell.

[Clifton]

I always found the 883 to be slow as molasses.  The 1200 was the only Sportster I ever rode that had an amount of hp that made it entertaining.  They are versatile bikes that can have a huge aftermarket following of parts and accessory.  Can't imagine it being made in Milwaukee at a price that would be profitable, and if it's made overseas that will crimp its appeal to US riders.  Time will tell.

I agree, given its weight the 883 is simply under powered and most buyers will soon tire of it. $10K is an attractive price (for a base model, made in US, Harley 1200 Sportster). But if they put 883's on the floor at close to $11K with freight, color, fees, etc. only to up charge another $2,000+ for the larger pistons, it becomes completely over priced IMO.

Anyone remember back when HD promoted base Sportster 883's for $3,999 and guaranteed you'd get that amount back if you later traded up to a big twin within some period of time like 1 or 2 years?

[Kev m]

What was the last 883 you guys rode? Because as the years went on Harley got smart about keeping it fun and differentiating it from the 1200.

It's been a minute, but I think it was on all rubbermounts, they changed the primary ratios to give the 883 lower gearing.

So around town and backroads it wasn't much different in speed/acceleration than the 1200.

That simply came at a cost of higher rpm and a little more vibration at highway speeds, but the 883 wasn't really about highway speeds.

Sure our 1200 was a little quicker and pretty comfortable on the highway. I always thought it was very competitive when compared side by side with my 00 Cali Jackal, but our 883's were fine machines too and had more punch than you'd think.

Actually I wouldn't mind having one again, especially since I've discovered how much fun it can be to do more with less with my V7's.

[Clifton]

Maybe the newer 883's run better. TBH I only rode an 883 once and it's been a while, I think 2005 or 6, and just remember feeling it was underpowered. I had taken my 2004 FXDXI to the dealer and while they tried to bleed the brakes I took out a base model 883, not Custom or Low.
When I pulled out, the power seemed pretty good at partial throttle but after shifting into 3rd and 4th when I gave it more throttle there wasn't much more power than when it was at 1/2 throttle. Acceleration was sluggish. It also vibrated more than the Dyna and it started feeling a busy and vibrated even more at a lower speed than I imagined it would, maybe 60 or so, I can't recall exactly. Also at 5'-11 I felt very cramped and even a large crack in the road was punishing.

I currently have a 08 1200 Sportster R and it also vibrates like that 883, its suspension is a little more compliant but still fairly harsh. With the taller gearing its smooth range in 5th is from 60 to 75-80 or so where it feels relaxed. 50-60 is smooth in 4th. Acceleration on the 1200 improves from sluggish to moderate and it feels noticeably quicker to 60 and even more so to 70.

Maybe my favorite looking Sportsters were the 883Rs. I'd love to see Harley bring that back with the 1200 motor and top shelf suspension.

[Kev m]

Maybe the newer 883's run better. TBH I only rode an 883 once and it's been a while, I think 2005 or 6, and just remember feeling it was underpowered. I had taken my 2004 FXDXI to the dealer and while they tried to bleed the brakes I took out a base model 883, not Custom or Low.
When I pulled out, the power seemed pretty good at partial throttle but after shifting into 3rd and 4th when I gave it more throttle there wasn't much more power than when it was at 1/2 throttle. Acceleration was sluggish. It also vibrated more than the Dyna and it started feeling a busy and vibrated even more at a lower speed than I imagined it would, maybe 60 or so, I can't recall exactly. Also at 5'-11 I felt very cramped and even a large crack in the road was punishing.

I currently have a 08 1200 Sportster R and it also vibrates like that 883, its suspension is a little more compliant but still fairly harsh. With the taller gearing its smooth range in 5th is from 60 to 75-80 or so where it feels relaxed. 50-60 is smooth in 4th. Acceleration on the 1200 improves from sluggish to moderate and it feels noticeably quicker to 60 and even more so to 70.

Maybe my favorite looking Sportsters were the 883Rs. I'd love to see Harley bring that back with the 1200 motor and top shelf suspension.

I dunno man.

Briefly had an 04 883 - bought opportunistically from a car dealer that won it new as a prize from an auction house so sold it cheap not understanding the Harley market.

05 883L - Jenn's, maybe 15k miles

07 1200L - Jenn's for the first 10k miles, then slowly converted it to a 1200R+ for another 15k miles.

The 883L was a blast around the rolling horse country hills of Chester County PA, but Jenn rode it the length of the East Coast

The 1200L was great in most conditions. I remember running 2-up down the PA tpke at 70+ in the rain feeling perfectly stable, comfortable, and smooth. But I had better shocks and worked forks and very carefully opened mufflers (doubled the rows of the holes in the baffle) to uncork it a bit.

But I've always been able to throw my Harleys around the curves and then enjoy them for the distance when needed.

[Shorty]

HD would be foolish not to offer sub 1000cc bikes given the current trend of riders gravitating to that market via Triumph, Enfield, etc.. If they could make something light/ inexpensive enough to crack into the mid size ADV market, they could sell a few. I'm sure there are a few die hard MOCO fans salivating over the Himalyan, but not wanting to be caught dead on a "foreign" bike. 

[blu guzz]

My first HD was a 1993 1200 Sportster standard. I felt the power was good but those were hard mounted. Ironically, it was smooth up until 59 MPH, then it was paint shaker city.  A good thing the national limit was still 55 at the time.  Of course, it was the 2.5 gallon peanut tank so you only had about 90 miles before you had to get off anyway.  I had to sell it in the fall due to financial reasons but really was crying to see it go. I just loved it.  I was recently considering finding a nice low mileage 20 year old one to buy for a song, but got a roamer instead.  A little more HP than the 883 at 55, but not quite as much as the 1200 but probably 75 lbs lighter than either and it can rev to 7000 which would have blown up the Harley.

[Kev m]

My first HD was a 1993 1200 Sportster standard. I felt the power was good but those were hard mounted. Ironically, it was smooth up until 59 MPH, then it was paint shaker city.  A good thing the national limit was still 55 at the time.  Of course, it was the 2.5 gallon peanut tank so you only had about 90 miles before you had to get off anyway.  I had to sell it in the fall due to financial reasons but really was crying to see it go. I just loved it.  I was recently considering finding a nice low mileage 20 year old one to buy for a song, but got a roamer instead.  A little more HP than the 883 at 55, but not quite as much as the 1200 but probably 75 lbs lighter than either and it can rev to 7000 which would have blown up the Harley.

My first Harley, also my first new motor vehicle ever, was also a 1200 Sportster.

I put 35k on that bike in 2 years.

But yeah it SHOOK so much it numbed my hands and feet constantly.

The rubbermount 883 made as much HP as the V9, and more torque, but it also weighed almost 100# more.

Still they were fun bikes. I will own one again, but not second hand, because I don't trust their owners.

[Dave Swanson]

I bought this 883 locally a number of years ago with only 500 miles.  I had hoped to encourage my daughter's budding interest in learning to ride with it, but it was a no go.

Other than the horrid shorty rear shock I found myself enjoying it much more than I expected.   I was able to pass it on to the next owner, but it did give me a twinge.  Fun bike.

[Clifton]

Unless Harley makes meaningful improvements an obstacle to successfully re-market the Sportster might be the proliferation of low mileage, low priced, used ones on the market. There are gobs of pretty decent ones for $3,000 and up.

 I picked up this 2008 with 4,000 miles a couple years ago paying top price (a little over $4K) because of the low miles and the fact it was stock other than SE slip-ons. It also met all my Sportster requirements of 1200, FI, cast tubeless wheels, mid controls, not a low, 4.5 gallon tank, and twin front rotors. I ditched the loud mufflers and put on stock ones, added better shocks, then changed the seat to one with a taller more rearward bucket. And of course replaced the stock tires.

[Kev m]

I did actually give my last one away....

[kballowe]

My now gone 2006 XL1200C.

I liked the look of these pipes and liked the sound much better after the local muffler shop squeezed the baffles down to a light rumble. 
It was a hoot on a road trip from St Louis out thru Wyoming with just the bare essentials.

[Clifton]

My now gone 2006 XL1200C.

I like the solo seat and rear rack on that Sportster.

[guzziart]

I they bring back the 883 for the $3995 price, I might consider buying one.