Guzzi handling

[faffi]

I know I have mentioned this many times, that I am not great fan of the handling I've experienced with the majority of the Guzzis I have ridden. The nicest one was the Cali EV, despite the horrific riding position and handlebar shape, plus my son's 2009 V7 Classic.

Recently, I read that the EV had an extended swingarm and lazier geometry than the earlier Tontis. That reminded me of my Honda VT500FT Ascot, which also had lazy geometry. Very lazy. My brother hated its handling, because he use a lot of power through the handlebars in order to change directions. The Honda did not take kindly to that, what with the chassis not being strong enough. I am gentler, and the only time I noticed insecurity with the way it handled was when I fitted much longer and firmer shock absorbers. This quickened the steering, and not to my liking. After I raised the front a similar amount to the rear through much stiffer springs and sufficient preload, handling was great. I recall Cycle magazine claimed that the Ascot steered with very little effort, but slowly. The GS550E (GSX550E in Europe) from the same year was said to be able to steer much quicker, but required more effort.

There have been other bikes as well that my brother loved and I hated, and vice versa. For instance, the Triumph Daytona 900 and Kawasaki 750 Turbo both felt like their steering was welded, they both need an insane amount of force to get the bikes to change direction. When my brother had those, I owned a Suzuki GSX600F Katana, which steered with little input, but not too quickly. When we swapped bikes, riding out onto the road, my brother almost turned 180 degrees to return back where we came from, while I almost ended up going straight because the bike did not react to my inputs.

I have concluded that I prefer very light steering combined with predictable, deliberate change of direction, as in not nervous. What about you? Do you like to wrestle your bikes, or do you prefer a bike that just goes where you want with little effort?

[Clifton]

I know I have mentioned this many times, that I am not great fan of the handling I've experienced with the majority of the Guzzis I have ridden. The nicest one was the Cali EV, despite the horrific riding position and handlebar shape, plus my son's 2009 V7 Classic....

I have concluded that I prefer very light steering combined with predictable, deliberate change of direction, as in not nervous. What about you? Do you like to wrestle your bikes, or do you prefer a bike that just goes where you want with little effort?

Faffi have you ridden a V85?

[davethewelder]

Yeah V85TT handles great, better than my V7-850 Stone Ten.  On the V7 I raised the fork tubes 1/2", better.  For the most part newish bikes just need to have the suspension set up for the rider and proper air presure.

[PeteS]

I was out on my V100 yesterday and thinking how effortlessly it changes direction. Just think it and it goes where you want it. The V85 is just about as good.

Pete

[faffi]

No, I have not ridden any modern Guzzi - my V9 Roamer is the latest version I have rolled on. Most modern bikes tend to handle very well, though.

Forgot one thing about handling - I want it to me neutral. Many bikes I have ridden have required constant pressure on the inside or, more rarely, outside handlebar to retain their trajectory, something I find annoying.

[Clifton]

I think the V85 is a wonderful handling motorcycle with neutral yet fairly light steering due to the widish bars. It also has nice suspension, something my V7II Stone did not. I hope you can take one for a test ride.
 I've not ridden the new V7 850 series but everything I've read talks of nice handling, at least on smooth roads.

[faffi]

When the 85TT arrived, it won many comparison tests, so I have no doubts that it is a great bike. After 50k km / 32k mi, only the transmission had suffered, plus the cam chain tensioner had broken early on. This video goes into more detail - dubbed in English.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAqObwXCJwA

[turboguzzi]

faffi. people race totally stock old tonti frames with almost 100% more power than stock, without issues, the secret is suspension and professional setup.

my sp1000 with YSS on the back and CBR600 cartridges inside the 35mm fork is a wonderful handling device. And im saying this as an ex-racer....

[Gliderjohn]

For some years I rode a tricked out Suzuki GS 400 with good SW shocks and fork springs. Not the most comfortable interstate cruiser but was a blast in NW Arkansas between the short wheelbase and the handling.
For it's size I thought the Norge handled quite well. You had to put some effort into it while riding really twisty roads but it went and stayed where one intended. Kind of like the big girl that was light on her feet on the dance floor.
GliderJohn

[Tusayan]

The V85TT is a slow steering bike with a very long wheelbase that is acceptable if not highly maneuverable by virtue of having a wide handlebar.  It reminds me of a bevel drive Ducati with touring bars, except that the V85TT has longer travel suspension.

[faffi]

Best handling bike I have ridden was my KZ400C, with longer and firmer KONI shocks off a KZ1000, modified damper internals and 2 inches of extra preload. It would change direction with just a thought, jet it would never waver off line. It held its trajectory just as well as my Vulcan 800A, with massive rake and trail, allowing me to watch the scenery without fear of the bike choosing its own route. A really fun bike hampered by a lack of power and a surplous of vibrations only.

[Clifton]

When the 85TT arrived, it won many comparison tests, so I have no doubts that it is a great bike. After 50k km / 32k mi, only the transmission had suffered, plus the cam chain tensioner had broken early on.....

Not bad for a first year Guzzi. What did they think of the handling?

[faffi]

The chassis handles all road conditions with ease, from fast straightaways to tight bends, and the 80 hp is perfectly adequate for country roads. Only on high-speed motorway stretches might one wish for more speed, but that's a purely German issue, as the motorway speed limit in all other European countries is a maximum of 130 km/h.

Based on initial impressions after 300 kilometers of country roads, Moto Guzzi has hit the mark. The suspension is partially adjustable, the brakes are crisp but not overly aggressive, and modern electronics are present in the form of riding modes, but not excessively so.

[Clifton]

The V85TT is a slow steering bike with a very long wheelbase that is acceptable if not highly maneuverable by virtue of having a wide handlebar.  It reminds me of a bevel drive Ducati with touring bars, except that the V85TT has longer travel suspension.

Well it's not quick steering like a super moto, more like neutral steering. Of the bikes I've had, some Harley's, California 1400, along with Africa Twins and Tenere 700 with their long WB and 21" front have had slowish steering but I don't find the V85 steering to be slow at all. Nor is it twitchy. I don't think anyone will deny the R1300GS is an excellent handling motorcycle with nice steering and the V85 is right with it with the same 19" front and same length wheelbase, which is actually short for an adventure bike.

[Zimmermichaels1ea]

Put my vote down for the handling of the V9 Bobber.
I really find it to be predictable and forgiving of input mistakes.  It is a touch harder to tip into turns, but I find it tracks well and that inspires confidence in me.
I find the V7 requires of me a greater precision in tight turns and better line choice.  Probably just my limitations as a rider showing up is all. Regardless, I like the Bobber 

[PeteS]

Safe to say all Guzzis handle differently. Just a matter or learning the bike and dealing with it.
I got my 850 LeMans 7 years after my Norton. Compared to the Norton steering seemed glacial. It was only after traveling at triple digit speeds and discovered it was dead stable that I came to appreciate it. Riding a MKIII LeMans it was even slower steering. The ‘98 EV was different again. Stable but the extra weight, wide bars (I installed lower Superbike bars) and floorboards plus the weird shifting and brake meant it was no sport bike.
The newest bikes are different again. You can’t assume another Guzzi will handle like yours.

Pete

[Frenchfrog]

three different length swing arms is why PeteS.Shortest is the Le mans, then LM3 and the cruisers have an even longer one.All fine on long sweepers but hard work on mountain roads

[PeteS]

I forgot to add the late ‘90s 1100 Sports have to hold the record for the slowest turning Guzzis. Mack Truck Like.
They they turned it around with the early 2000s Sport 1100s. The first year or two they were as nimble as my 850 LeMans. Then they changed the geometry to slow them down. Apparently some found the early ones unstable at high speeds. I would have considered an early one if I had the space.

Pete

[73 sport]

   I know why the '70s V7 Sports and the LeMans 850 handled so well in the twisties and wide open on the Auto Strada, Autobahn, and Interstates. It seems that  succeeding bikes had those abilities reduced or designed out of them.

[faffi]

three different length swing arms is why PeteS.Shortest is the Le mans, then LM3 and the cruisers have an even longer one.All fine on long sweepers but hard work on mountain roads

I am probably wrong, but I have been under the impression that the T3 and its contemporaries had the shortest, the Le Mans 850s a medium, and the LM IV a longer again, and that the EV had the longest of the Tontis

[Frenchfrog]

LM and LM 2 are the same as T 3.LM 3 was the first to get a bump .

[faffi]

The III also reverted to the narrower fork stance of the original version, IIRC?

[MikeP996]

IMO, my '21 V7 Special handles very well in the twisties.  No it wouldn't rival my (No longer owned) Ducati sport bikes but it will outperform my BMW R1200RS (with active suspension) and my BMW R9T. ;)

[kidsmoke]

I’ve owned a half dozen Guzzi’s. 16” front wheel Lemans, GRiSO, v11 Cali, 1000S, and it’s the cream puff G5 that just seems to read my mind, even on aggressive rides. There was a day where I removed the luggage and absolutely throttled it in the Red River Gorge…ate it up.

That same weekend I test drove a V85TT, and while the tuning of that bike wasn’t to my liking the ergos certainly were and I could see that it’d be a wonderful handling bike. I won’t make any proclamations based on a 22 mile test ride however twisty and fast as it may have been.

[faffi]

I remember test-riding two R9T's back in the fall of 2017. One had the numberplate "21" painted on the tank, the other was the Scrambler. Especially the latter was very disappointing, with terrible suspension. Not only did the suspension offer a harsh ride, it also bottomed out far sooner than my Virago-based scrambler. I would not have dared to take the Beemer through muds and rocks and over fast gravel roads, but my Virago-mongrel did just fine. The R9T engine had much more power than my 1100, but the old Yamaha donk was more tractable at lower rpm and more suited for offroad work and road speeds up to 60mph in my experience.

[Ncdan]

I know I have mentioned this many times, that I am not great fan of the handling I've experienced with the majority of the Guzzis I have ridden. The nicest one was the Cali EV, despite the horrific riding position and handlebar shape, plus my son's 2009 V7 Classic.

Recently, I read that the EV had an extended swingarm and lazier geometry than the earlier Tontis. That reminded me of my Honda VT500FT Ascot, which also had lazy geometry. Very lazy. My brother hated its handling, because he use a lot of power through the handlebars in order to change directions. The Honda did not take kindly to that, what with the chassis not being strong enough. I am gentler, and the only time I noticed insecurity with the way it handled was when I fitted much longer and firmer shock absorbers. This quickened the steering, and not to my liking. After I raised the front a similar amount to the rear through much stiffer springs and sufficient preload, handling was great. I recall Cycle magazine claimed that the Ascot steered with very little effort, but slowly. The GS550E (GSX550E in Europe) from the same year was said to be able to steer much quicker, but required more effort.

There have been other bikes as well that my brother loved and I hated, and vice versa. For instance, the Triumph Daytona 900 and Kawasaki 750 Turbo both felt like their steering was welded, they both need an insane amount of force to get the bikes to change direction. When my brother had those, I owned a Suzuki GSX600F Katana, which steered with little input, but not too quickly. When we swapped bikes, riding out onto the road, my brother almost turned 180 degrees to return back where we came from, while I almost ended up going straight because the bike did not react to my inputs.

I have concluded that I prefer very light steering combined with predictable, deliberate change of direction, as in not nervous. What about you? Do you like to wrestle your bikes, or do you prefer a bike that just goes where you want with little effort?

A few years back I planted my Calvin vintage behind a group of sports bike riders on the TAIL OF THE DRAGON.
before reaching the end I had improved my position to the third bike in a group of 8-10 bikes.
Could it possibly be the riders or the bikes?

[Kev m]

A few years back I planted my Calvin vintage behind a group of sports bike riders on the TAIL OF THE DRAGON.
before reaching the end I had improved my position to the third bike in a group of 8-10 bikes.
Could it possibly be the riders or the bikes?

I'm not and never will be anywhere near the skill of an actual racer.

That's also true of 99% of the riding community.

I've absolutely destroyed sport bike riders while I was on a Harley.

I've been absolutely owned on a sportbike by a retired racer, who was 2-up with his large self and large wife on a clapped out airhead.

It is almost always the rider.

[Ncdan]

I'm not and never will be anywhere near the skill of an actual racer.

That's also true of 99% of the riding community.

I've absolutely destroyed sport bike riders while I was on a Harley.

I've been absolutely owned on a sportbike by a retired racer, who was 2-up with his large self and large wife on a clapped out airhead.

It is almost always the rider.

I hope both of us is wiser as we age, kev🤔

[PeteS]

I hope both of us is wiser as we age, kev🤔

Not sure about wiser but definitely slower.
As a friend told me, “There are old men and there are bold men, but there are no old bold men”.

Pete

[faffi]

A few years back I planted my Calvin vintage behind a group of sports bike riders on the TAIL OF THE DRAGON.
before reaching the end I had improved my position to the third bike in a group of 8-10 bikes.
Could it possibly be the riders or the bikes?

Mostly the rider, as I think you know. MOTORRAD magazine tested a HP-BMW S1000RR with 215 hp against a Royal Enfield 535GT with 29 hp in the Alps. The difference in time was less than 15%. Personally, I can also say that while some bikes can limit myself around the odd bend due to lack of cornering clearance or lack of power, but most of the time I am the limiter. So my time from A to B over a winding road will determine more on me than the bike I ride more often than not.