Dellorto Carbs and Ethanol

[sign216]

Are new Dellorto carbs ethanol safe?  What year is the cutoff?  The USA has ethanol mainly because of our corn growing mid-west, but I expect Italy not to have that pressure.

Eight years ago I bought a new Dellorto carb for my 1965 Sears Gilera.  I've been using AV gas pretty regularly, but refill with pump ethanol.  I'm curious if I should just cave in for ethanol full time.

Joe

[Alfetta]

Ethanol causes corrosion in cast aluminum primarily at elevated temperatures (>78°C) or in dry, water-free conditions, forming aluminum triethoxide. While generally stable at room temperature, ethanol can cause pitting corrosion and white, powdery deposits on aluminum surfaces in high-temperature or anhydrous environments by breaking down the protective oxide layer.

Ethanol causes corrosion and degradation in brass over time, particularly in fuel systems or when water is present. While high-purity, dry alcohol is often used as a solvent for cleaning brass, ethanol blended with water or fuel readily attacks brass, causing it to tarnish, weaken, and in fuel applications, leading to potential premature component failure.

In my garage, if it has a carb it gets non-ethanol fuel (usually means premium)... 
But Im starting to notice premium with ethanol at the pump these days...

But one can always remove the ethanol from any fuel with a jug and some water .....

[PeteS]

My Lemans Delortos are close to 50 years old. Been using premium gas from the git go which means ethanol since the mid ‘80s. All parts except a few jets and float needles are original and still work like new.

Pete

[Chuck in Indiana]

The old brown floats are ok with ethanol. The new white ones.. not so much.

[MikeP996]

Been running standard pump gas (E10) since it became "standard" on all vehicles, including vintage motos with carbs.  Never have had any issues with it but I always add fuel stabilizer if the vehicle will sit unused for more than a month.  I have a friend who left his Triumph for a years with untreated E10 and all carb passages/jets were solidly blocked.  My Norton Commando sat for two years - wasn't my intention but worked out that way - with treated E 10 and it started with no issues at all.

Ironic that back in the day we periodically added alcohol (DriGas - was one brand) to fuel to absorb any water/moisture  Now, it is added by the fuel suppliers and we complain about it!  ;)

[nc43bsa]

Ironic that back in the day we periodically added alcohol (DriGas - was one brand) to fuel to absorb any water/moisture  Now, it is added by the fuel suppliers and we complain about it!  ;)

Back in the day, it was our option to add alcohol to our fuel tanks. 

[Madtownguzzi]

My motorcycles and small engines get straight gas unless I am on a trip and can't find ethanol free fuel. I am lucky to have straight gas at the pump here.

[sign216]

I think there are three threats: 
- Ethanol attracts moisture, causing the fuel to go bad more quickly. 
- Older carbs were cast of zinc alloys, mainly Zamack, a zinc aluminum alloy.  A whitish corrosion can form, esp. if the fuel sits over the summer, and then the winter...
- Brass jets don't corrode, but the tiny orifices are easily blocked by by fuel deposits or zinc precipitates. 

If you don't take care of your fuel, the small idle jet will get blocked and the machine won't idle next year.  New Dellorto's often have a coated fuel bowls to protect the alloy.  Also, some have a dump screw in at the bowl bottom, to easily empty the carb.

I'm in Massachusetts, a state that's almost 100% ethanol.  Fortunately there's a small airfield near me that I can get av gas.  Aviation gas never has ethanol in it. 

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

A question I'd put back to you is when was the carb last rebuilt and with what kit? Aside from floats, any gaskets and diaphragms need to be made out of ethanol resistant materials to hold up to it over time.

[n3303j]

[SNIP]
I'm in Massachusetts, a state that's almost 100% ethanol.  Fortunately there's a small airfield near me that I can get av gas.  Aviation gas never has ethanol in it.

Far as I knew Taunton (KTAN) only sold 100LL at their fueling station. No ethanol, but high octane and a considerable amount of lead.

I know the lead fouls spark plugs in small planes. I'd pull the lower plugs on my plane and dump bits of lead out of them almost as big as grains of rice. On the other hand the lead made the exhaust valves in BMW Airheads very happy.

[Stevex]

Ive been running my LM2 on 5% ethanol since refurbing after buying it in 2014. Ive recently stripped and checked the carbs and found no aluminium or brass corrosion and everything was in good order apart from the accelerator diaphragms which had gone hard and stopped working. I add fuel stab to the fuel and run it through the carbs prior to winter storage every year.

[sign216]

Far as I knew Taunton (KTAN) only sold 100LL at their fueling station. No ethanol, but high octane and a considerable amount of lead.

I know the lead fouls spark plugs in small planes. I'd pull the lower plugs on my plane and dump bits of lead out of them almost as big as grains of rice. On the other hand the lead made the exhaust valves in BMW Airheads very happy.

Hi Ron,
Years ago, I think I was living in Bridgewater, we dealt with each other.  Probably about a BMW /2. 

I don't like the lead fouling, but I'll take that over ethanol issues.  I don't get my fuel from the Taunton airport, but a grass field strip where fuel is sold on the honor system.  I'm sure you can figure which one.

Joe

[n3303j]

Yup, probably about a /2. I did enjoy that machine but always wished it could stop quicker and was just a bit bigger. Meanwhile my R100RT and K100RS stopped excellently but were just a bit too big.

Then I met the Guzzi group at Airheads at the Aerodrome and fell in love with a Guzzi T3 one of the group members was riding. Found one & restored it. Then bought the V11EV and sold all the BMWs. Finally gave up cars and bought a Ural to handle going to work in New England winters (that's sort of like a BMW, if it were built by a practicing alcoholic)

[Chuck in Indiana]

(that's sort of like a BMW, if it were built by a practicing alcoholic)

true.. true.

[Gliderjohn]

Except for four years I have always lived in KS and Non-ethanol is fairly rare and usually at least .50 higher per gallon. Have had my T-3 since 89 and probably 95% of the time it is running on ethanol fuels of 10-15%. Have never found an issue even after sitting for extended periods of time. Maybe I am just lucky.
Gliderjohn

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Except for four years I have always lived in KS and Non-ethanol is fairly rare and usually at least .50 higher per gallon. Have had my T-3 since 89 and probably 95% of the time it is running on ethanol fuels of 10-15%. Have never found an issue even after sitting for extended periods of time. Maybe I am just lucky.
Gliderjohn

I'll mention that as of right now in the USA E15 (15% ethanol) is not approved for use in motorcycles. Though you could probably rejet a carb for the higher % of ethanol, it is technically prohibited by the EPA.
https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol-e15

[wirespokes]

I'm in Portland Oregon and haven't had an issue running regular pump gas in my 70s and 80s guzzis.

[Motormike]

But one can always remove the ethanol from any fuel with a jug and some water .....

Easy on a multiple day trip.  Just tow a trailer behind you with several gallon jugs of water and a funnel.  Nothing to it! 

[Motormike]

I can assure you, if you have a Guzzi from the mid-2000's with a nylon (white interior color plastic) fuel tank, E10 gas is having a detrimental effect. 

[sign216]

I can assure you, if you have a Guzzi from the mid-2000's with a nylon (white interior color plastic) fuel tank, E10 gas is having a detrimental effect.

Yep, it caused fuel tank expansion on my '09 V7 Classic.  Not  a problem until you take the tank off, and on re-install none of the mounts match up.