Guzzi 1000SP and BMW R100RT appear surprisingly similar

[faffi]

The two bikes are similar in size and performance, both delivering quarter-mile times comparable to a period Honda CX500 at best, turning low 14s at just over 90 mph. Both tourers weigh just north of 550 lbs fully gassed, have cast wheels, triple disc brakes and a fairing that protects the rider from the elements. The similarities continue into the engine, with both featuring liter-sized air-cooled twin cylinders with pushrod operated valves, with a total of four valves and two carbs per engine. Each gearbox is a separate unit, connected to the engine through a dry automotive style clutch, hold five gear ratios, and shaft drive takes the power to the rear wheel. Overall gearing ensures 60 mph cruising at around 3500 rpm.  Also, both carry a not quite large enough alternator together with a massive battery and come with big fuel tanks holding around 6.5 gal.

Yet they still appear to be very different machines.

Here are a some comments from the Cycle World road test of January 1984:
-   Moto Guzzi may be the only motorcycle company in the world not using electronic ignition.
-   Pistons have changed since the first liter version appeared in 1975. Although premium gas is still recommended, Guzzis run much better in inferior fuel than they used to. Other features are air filter, round slide 30mm carburetors and a dipstick for checking oil level, parts not found on all earlier models.
-   The frame is simple yet manages to provide features many far more intricate frames do not, like low seat height, room for a large gas tank, easy battery access, good attaching points for accessories and easy access to all engine components.
-   It is not a big 1000cc motorcycle, nor a very powerful one. And keeping suspension travel down helps lowering seat height, yet comfort is retained through a thickly padded seat.
-   Not everything fits like a glove. The cylinders sit where some riders would like to put their knees, not helped by a lower fairing that puts the knees even further back. This makes for a more rearward riding position than some riders prefer, especially with the medium-forward pegs. And the handlebars are narrow and don’t come back far. This makes for a crouched riding position, and that’s what the fairing is designed for.
-   Right behind the top fairing the rider experience excellent protection. Stick your head above the windshield, however, and there’s a windblast that could have come right out of the Guzzi wind tunnel.
-   The seating position is not like anything else. Neither are the controls. Handgrips are ordinary enough, but the levers extend farther away that usual, and they require great strength to operate. The horn is loud as a fire engine siren. Brakes are linked. Used correctly the Guzzi brakes can provide excellent stopping power. They serve riders who stomp on the rear brake at the first sign of trouble will be met with front brake power they normally would have missed. Riders who prefer to operate the two brakes independently may be uncomfortable giving up that freedom.
-   The powerband starts as soon as the engine does, peaks early and then slowly tapers off. Redline is 8000 rpm, though the Guzzi does not urge the rider to test that limit often. The engine is most easily ridden in the bottom half of the tach. The engine is at its smoothest between 3500 and 4000 rpm. There is more than enough heat coming from the cylinders.
-   The handling is absolutely stable, the steering utterly predictable. The steering damper combines with the short handlebars to keep steering effort higher than average.
-   This is not an ordinary motorcycle. Riders used to garden-variety bikes may find it hard to adapt to the seating position, the shifting and the brakes. The spring loaded sidestand is almost unreachable from aboard the bike, partly because of the lower fairing. We’d like a lighter clutch, lighter throttle return springs, less reclusive sidestand, a more accurate speedometer and maybe a little bit more power. Mass produced, bland and designed for everybody, the SP1000 is not.
-   The riding position is as dictatorial as a Honda Magna or a Suzuki Katana. Two test riders found the interference of fairing, cylinder heads and shins infuriating. One of them also hated the seat, bars, clutch, brakes and throttle. Insist on a trial ride before signing the check!

Not everything Cycle World  wrote in 1984 was confirmed when I read the 1979 test that was printed in the April number of Cycle magazine.

-   (This bike had the original, thinner seat, as well as more rearset pegs). The seating position is sporting and natural. You lean forward to the low handlebar. You do not straight-arm the bar in clip-on fashion, rather your arm bend at the elbows, and wrists support a comfortable amount of the torso weight.
-   Engine torque pulsing is lateral and not fully resolved into the chassis. The engine chugs noticeably side-to-side under heavy load, smooths out in a cruising mode, and disappears altogether during deceleration.
-   Gear changes are positive if you are deliberate with the shift lever. The engine’s inertia and the drive-shaft torque reaction combine to cause the bike to leap up and forward when the rider drops the clutch home.
-   Run the engine into its high-rpm range and you will discover the five-to-seven peakiness – characteristics of the old 750 Sport – is happily gone. The SP has a broad, fluid powerband with no steep rises. The engine lopes along; there is none of that mechanical busyness with which Japanese multi-cylinder bikes proceed.
-   The sounds may be relaxed, but your right wrist won’t be. A strong hand is required, and the twist grip must be rotated a considerable distance.
-   There is plenty of cornering clearance, although you may first drag the pegs and then the undercarriage if you are in a hurry. The high, unusually placed footpegs give your feet plenty of clearance in the turns. Ramping up the preload on the rear shocks will give more cornering clearance and reduce the effect of the shaft torque reactions somewhat. Throw the 1000 into some corners, and the firm suspension holds it stable. The bike is precise and responds well to rider input.
-   This motorcycle transmits a different feeling to its rider than do many big Japanese road bikes. The seating position is lower, so you feel part of the bike. All the components work in harmony. You sense you are riding a complete unit rather than a collection og pieces that happen to be bolted together. Suspension is firm.
-   It is possible to lock the rear wheel with the foot brake pedal, but not the front wheel unless the front brake lever is activated as well. If you only use the front brake, the fork will twist. Same if you only use the brake pedal. As long as both brakes are applied at once, the bike will track straight.
-   Past 110 mph the bike can wallow in a straight line, and during hard braking the back end gets a little squirrely.
-   The upper fairing is smaller than a traditional touring fairing. All but exceptionally short riders will look over the windscreen, with an upturned trailing edge. This ducktail causes turbulence around the rider’s head. If you tuck down or sit up a bit you can move your head almost completely out of the buffeting. The mirrors appear like a bad joke. If you are about five-nine or taller, your knees will bump against rubber blocks designed to keep your knees off the backside of the cylinder heads. On longer rides you may find a need to shift positions, but there really isn’t anywhere to shift to on the SP. Any buyer should consider personal fit and feel before buying an SP.
-   The seat is comfortable and the suspension does a good job of intercepting road bumps. Most riders will find they can ride non-stop for 200 miles or more. At 39 mpg, the 6.6 gal fuel tank has supply for 257 miles.
-   The engine runs happily on premium and some regular gas.

So what about the Beemer?

-   In 1979, it was the costliest production motorcycle on sale in USA at 5529 USD, compared to 3990 for the SP1000.
-   The fairing gives a fairly silent and well protected place for the rider to sit due to the adjustability of the screen, which allows four different rakes and four different heights to be selected between. The fairing also offers two storage rooms of 6 liters each. In addition, it has ventilation to cool the rider a little when the weather is warm. In cool conditions, the vents can be closed easily. To top off the touring aspect, the bike have stock lockable saddlebags and a comfy seat.
-   The stands got a lot of flak, what with the main stand being too narrow and lifting the bike up on it quite hard, the sidestand too long and self-retracting. Neither of the considered sturdy enough, either.
-   Below 4000 rpm, the engine shudders, above 4500 it has a very mild, low frequency vibration.
-   Under load, the engine would ping on high test fuel.
-   Pick a destination a long way off, settle in at 75 mph, and the RT will give you hours in the saddle that are hard to beat for the sheer pleasure of travelling.
-   The degree to which the RT climbs and settles in its suspension during stop and go running is disconcerting to those who have yet become accustomed to it.
-   The best way to describe its behavior in the twisties is truculent. The weight and tall gearing make its corner-to-corner acceleration uninspired to the point of somnolence, and the turning-braking combination is still confusing to its chassis and suspension. Nor does it have all the cornering clearance in the world.
-   Braking performance is excellent.
-   In its zone, the RT is awfully, awfully good. But as time goes on, the BMW zone gets narrower. The RT is the narrowest Beemer we have tested. It is heavy, overgeared, only adequate in traffic, more than a little sullen when asked to snap down twisting roads, and when compared to the Japanese competition stone slow.

[Perazzimx14]

As discussed in another thread two bikes can cave eerily similar numbers on paper but perform absolutely different. Static number tell only part of the story. Two bikes with 32" seat heights seem the same but one seat is 10" wide the other is 7" wide and the narrower seat makes the bike feel like it has a 29" seat height because you legs are not splayed open as far.

[guzzisteve]

What a bunch of junk. I worked on both new at a dealer & BMW came in broke and Guzzi's were superior & didn't need a warranty. Anyone that thought they had a fast one I would ask if they wanted to race, no one took me up. Guzzi's were heavier duty motors, trans, driveshaft & rear drive by far.
When the green flag drops all their BS stops.

[PeteS]

The first thing thats apparent is the handling. Rubber cow was an appropriate description of the BMW.
The SP would require very few upgrades when new if you wanted to travel long distance. Electronic pickups would be plus.
I ended up replacing fork springs, shocks, triple clamps and adding a fork brace to the BMW. Then double plug, new valve seats and valves, and finally a sport cam to get rid of the pinging on my 1984 BMW R100RT.

Pete

[guzzisteve]

Pushing one through the curves out by Mississippi river from behind I saw the wheels crossed up on him, the Rubber Cow is real. They do make a diagonal bar that stiffens them up some.

Simple, you want a 1/2 Volkswagen or 1/4 of a V8.  Reality hurts when you have Stauntch

[faffi]

What a bunch of junk.

What exactly is a bunch of junk?

[guzzisteve]

Old airheads, 03 last year shook out of balance, sync carbs made no difference, bad casting. This is a Guzzi forum not BMW, plenty of them if you need to talk BMW  Talk about what ever you want, Don't care, Social media BS is all I see this forum becoming.

[PeteS]

Old airheads, 03 last year shook out of balance, sync carbs made no difference, bad casting. This is a Guzzi forum not BMW, plenty of them if you need to talk BMW  Talk about what ever you want, Don't care, Social media BS is all I see this forum becoming.

I pulled my RT motor apart and balanced the pistons and rods to within 1 milligram on a lab balance. Then filled the bars with lead shot. Helped a lot but not electric motor smooth. Their saving grace is they are easy to work on.
One time after a rebuild I missed a shift and bent a valve. I was able to pull the head, extract the valve, put in my lathe, banged as straight as I could, kissed the seat and had it back together in about an hour with only 1% leakdown.
Might be able to do that on a vintage Guzzi motor but never on these new ones.

Pete

[faffi]

Old airheads, 03 last year shook out of balance, sync carbs made no difference, bad casting. This is a Guzzi forum not BMW, plenty of them if you need to talk BMW  Talk about what ever you want, Don't care, Social media BS is all I see this forum becoming.

I honestly do not think you read my full post, nor understood the intention.

[SIR REAL ED]

Old airheads, 03 last year shook out of balance, sync carbs made no difference, bad casting. This is a Guzzi forum not BMW, plenty of them if you need to talk BMW  Talk about what ever you want, Don't care, Social media BS is all I see this forum becoming.

In my opinion, this is a great forum where people with differing opinions share information.

If you don't care, why are you responding?

[turboguzzi]

Faffi, some of your posts are interesting at times, but this one surely isnt TBH.

I read it, dont understand your intention or your point either.

[faffi]

Faffi, some of your posts are interesting at times, but this one surely isnt TBH.

I read it, dont understand your intention or your point either.

It was to show what period testers thought about them, and how much they differed in real life despite very similar specs.  Whether it is of interest or not is impossible for me to know up front, but there have been several topics containing airhead stuff lately, so I figured some may find my post of interest.

[n3303j]

The faired R100RT was just too hot in the summer even after I added an additional vent in the center of the windshield. The bike was parked from late June to early September.

My Guzzis have better rider cooling.

[PeteS]

The faired R100RT was just too hot in the summer even after I added an additional vent in the center of the windshield. The bike was parked from late June to early September.

My Guzzis have better rider cooling.

I first swapped the near closed lower center section with one from an R80RT which didn’t have an oil cooler. Then finally removed all the lowers during the summer months. Helped a lot.

Pete