To upmap or not to upmap

[UnpotatoedSalmon]

Howdy yall, I recently had some agostini short pipes installed on my v7  2024 with the help of the lads down at cadre cycles. I am a little worried about the v7 running too lean and was wondering if I should get an upmap for my bike or leave my mapping stock

[Dirk_S]

Have you inspected your spark plugs after putting some miles on?

[Dave Swanson]

If it is running well, just ride and enjoy.   My V7-850 has Mistral silencers with an otherwise stock setup.   It runs so well there is no need to change anything. 




(winter storage spot)

[TN Mark]

Just about every motorcycle comes out of the crate running EPA lean. That means, the fuel map from the factory is designed to pass emissions. It is absolutely not intended to improve the life, the longevity or the performance of the engine.

Anytime you make changes to the intake or to the exhaust side of these engines, a fuel map alteration is most certainly needed. I don’t know if Piaggio has a downloadable fuel map when dealers replace intake or exhaust parts. If they do not, I would absolutely, positively, highly recommend you get your bike on a Dyno with a competent tuning technician.

A lean running motorcycle, made more so by opening up the intake and/or the exhaust just further leans out the engines performance. This is absolutely not a good thing for an air cooled motorcycle engine.

Getting your ECU fuel map retuned by a competent tuning technician is the best option. If that’s not available, adding something like a Power Commander is the best second option. I would absolutely not recommend a “tuning plug“ that’s available for some motorcycles. The reason being, those just add fuel throughout the entire fuel map. That is absolutely not the recommended way to efficiently tune an engine.

Many may not support the idea of adding a power commander or an aftermarket tune to their motorcycles. My suspicion is they’ve either never ridden a properly tuned motorcycle of the same make and model they think runs well from the factory. Or, they simply don’t fully understand the need and/or the process.

I haven’t owned a motorcycle that hasn’t had aftermarket tuning for decades. All of my motorcycles have modified intake, modified exhaust and aftermarket fuel tuning. The difference from stock to done correctly is literally the difference between night and day.

If you like the bike and you’re going to keep it for any length of time, do right by it (and yourself) by getting it properly tuned. Adding aftermarket mufflers without making any adjustment is simply not good enough.

[Kev m]

Maps are not linear.

No modern motorcycle comes out "lean" across the board.

It's only lean during specific operating conditions (idle and mid-range at steady throttle). It can be anywhere from fine to pig rich in the rest of the range.

[red stripeguz]

I put Agostini shorts, air filter and deleted the SAS on mine. Ran OK after the mods, before the UpMap.After the UpMap, it runs SOOO nice. Much smoother

[TN Mark]

Maps are not linear.

No modern motorcycle comes out "lean" across the board.

It's only lean during specific operating conditions (idle and mid-range at steady throttle). It can be anywhere from fine to pig rich in the rest of the range.

100% agree. That’s why a ‘fueler plug’ type device is typically such a bad idea. Each rpm segment and each cylinder needs a balanced fuel and timing map. The latest aftermarket options can, and do, make even a box stock motorcycle run so much better.

They smooth out the power delivery, often increase fuel mileage and often reduce engine heat.

[kingoffleece]

He'll know for sure when and if he gets an A/F reading from the tailpipe.
Wanna know?  That's how.

[DenverSteve]

Anytime you make changes to the intake or to the exhaust side of these engines, a fuel map alteration is most certainly needed. I don’t know if Piaggio has a downloadable fuel map when dealers replace intake or exhaust parts. If they do not, I would absolutely, positively, highly recommend you get your bike on a Dyno with a competent tuning technician.

A lean running motorcycle, made more so by opening up the intake and/or the exhaust just further leans out the engines performance. This is absolutely not a good thing for an air cooled motorcycle engine.....

Absolutely.

[Dukedesmo]

As mentioned above, any changes to intake or exhaust will be optimised by a remap of some kind.


An extreme example but I had the heads on my 916 gasflowed and skimmed.


After re-assembling everything, I took it to the dyno for a custom map but needed to get it running first to be able to ride it there.


On first startup up it was spitting flames back through the intakes due to being so lean, in short it was completely unrideable and likely dangerous - the bottom of the fuel tank is the top of the airbox in these!


So it needed the fuelling turning up to get it running smoothly after which it got a thorough custom map by a specialist and now runs great, smoother and more responsive than before and with around a 15hp increase.

[yrunvs]

I put Agostini shorts, air filter and deleted the SAS on mine. Ran OK after the mods, before the UpMap.After the UpMap, it runs SOOO nice. Much smoother

Good post. Answers the intent of the original post.

[UnpotatoedSalmon]

I put Agostini shorts, air filter and deleted the SAS on mine. Ran OK after the mods, before the UpMap.After the UpMap, it runs SOOO nice. Much smoother

Was there an large increase in fuel usage

[UnpotatoedSalmon]

Just about every motorcycle comes out of the crate running EPA lean. That means, the fuel map from the factory is designed to pass emissions. It is absolutely not intended to improve the life, the longevity or the performance of the engine.

Anytime you make changes to the intake or to the exhaust side of these engines, a fuel map alteration is most certainly needed. I don’t know if Piaggio has a downloadable fuel map when dealers replace intake or exhaust parts. If they do not, I would absolutely, positively, highly recommend you get your bike on a Dyno with a competent tuning technician.

A lean running motorcycle, made more so by opening up the intake and/or the exhaust just further leans out the engines performance. This is absolutely not a good thing for an air cooled motorcycle engine.

Getting your ECU fuel map retuned by a competent tuning technician is the best option. If that’s not available, adding something like a Power Commander is the best second option. I would absolutely not recommend a “tuning plug“ that’s available for some motorcycles. The reason being, those just add fuel throughout the entire fuel map. That is absolutely not the recommended way to efficiently tune an engine.

Many may not support the idea of adding a power commander or an aftermarket tune to their motorcycles. My suspicion is they’ve either never ridden a properly tuned motorcycle of the same make and model they think runs well from the factory. Or, they simply don’t fully understand the need and/or the process.

I haven’t owned a motorcycle that hasn’t had aftermarket tuning for decades. All of my motorcycles have modified intake, modified exhaust and aftermarket fuel tuning. The difference from stock to done correctly is literally the difference between night and day.

If you like the bike and you’re going to keep it for any length of time, do right by it (and yourself) by getting it properly tuned. Adding aftermarket mufflers without making any adjustment is simply not good enough.

I'm planning on getting my v7 to 300k miles before rebuilding/selling it and a tune has been one of the main mods I need to both reach that goal and to undo the e5 nonsense that will make the motor run hot, my only problem is the lack of tuners who are both reliable and who has time so I was trying to figure out if the upmap device which can flash a gcorse tune onto my v7 would suffice or if its worth just waiting till the tuners have time later next year

[Dave Swanson]

Howdy yall, I recently had some agostini short pipes installed on my v7  2024 with the help of the lads down at cadre cycles. I am a little worried about the v7 running too lean and was wondering if I should get an upmap for my bike or leave my mapping stock

How would you describe how the bike is running in its current form?

[UnpotatoedSalmon]

How would you describe how the bike is running in its current form?

Bit louder and about the same

[red stripeguz]

Was there an large increase in fuel usage

About a 10% drop. I also ride the bike faster and harder so I'm sure that contributes 

[drdwb]

Howdy yall, I recently had some agostini short pipes installed on my v7  2024 with the help of the lads down at cadre cycles. I am a little worried about the v7 running too lean and was wondering if I should get an upmap for my bike or leave my mapping stock

Someone needs to send you Beatle’s contact info. He may have just the map you need sitting on his hard drive.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Someone needs to send you Beatle’s contact info. He may have just the map you need sitting on his hard drive.

Per the latest posts on the Beetlemaps facebook page, the V7-850 is not yet supported.

[MikeP996]

Just curious - I have read some accounts where after doing the up map install the engine warning lamp flashed continuously afterward.  I looked at instructions for the upMap and I don't see any reference to that.  Is this common or maybe some sort of operator or data download error?

[drdwb]

Per the latest posts on the Beetlemaps facebook page, the V7-850 is not yet supported.

Perhaps the OP could try contacting Beatle directly thru Griso ghetto page. About 10 years ago I was having problems sorting out a baby Breva, Beatle was very helpful providing multiple maps he’d been tinkering with for the small block, ultimately it was faulty wiring connections to the injector which Guzzi Dia couldn’t diagnose, but Beatle helped me find the problem.

[jcr]

theres also this place in Germany-
https://www.daes-mototec.de/de/Motor/Mappings-Drehmomentkit/Mapping-V7/DAES-Drehmoment-Kit-Stufe-1-fuer-V7-850-E5.html

im waiting to see if they will bring out a map for the Stone SE with Arrow pipes.