Let's talk V7ii Clutch Noise

[Bulldog9]

I've had my Stornello (AKA the Mello Yello Stornello) since new. Bought in 2017 and have not had a single issue. Tires, HH front brake pads and fluids is all that I have done to it. Well other than molesting it terribly by converting it to a V85 alternative.

Here's the issue:
- I'm sitting at about 13-14K miles. I've only had to adjust the cable a couple times, and it is properly adjusted.
- About 3 years ago, when cold, I noticed some complaint from the TO bearing (or possibly pilot bearing). It only made the noise when the clutch was engaged, bike was in gear, and I was coasting to a stop. 
- Initially it only did it when the bike was cold, and then went away.
- NOW it does it more often than not
- Takeup is fine, no juttering or slipping.
- It makes what I THINK is normal small block 'chuck chuck' noises when the clutch is held in, and has the 'rattle' when idling in gear, but no other noises.
- The squealing or noise ONLY happens when the clutch is engaged and the bike is rolling and IN GEAR.

Any ideas? I think it is either the TO bearing or a pilot/pinion bearing.

My plan is to ride it until it breaks, if ever........ 

I've stripped all the ADV junk off, and returned it to a fun scrambler again, and am having a blast on it, but would be more comfortable with my COA after hearing from those in the KNOW.

As it is now




As it was

[malik]

If by the TO bearing you mean the thrust bearing behind the clutch rod, then that is pretty easily got at without taking the gearbox apart. It's a delicate looking round plate with a dozen or so little bearings in it, so it's possible some could beak out. A new one is cheap. Access it by removing the clutch operating arm (after loosening of the clutch cable completely), pulling out the outer body ( if healthy the flat of the body should be flush with the gearbox cover), then remove the 3 parts of the bearing with a magnet - a washer, the main bearing part, & another washer. If the bearing part is not broken apart & checks out healthy, I'd be tempted to re-use it, but the old adage is "if you can see it, replace it" is usually good advice & it is not expensive (the last one I bought was AUD$38). Button if up, adjust the clutch at the operating arm - screw the adjuster in until it touches, wind out an eight of a turn & set the locknut, re-connect the clutch cable then adjust that cable at the handlebar & you're good to go.

Do note that access to the rear of the gearbox is WAY, WAY EASIER, if you remove the rear wheel and swingarm. Well worth the inconvenience.

If this solves your problem, this is an easy fix. To check out further it's likely you might have take the gearbox out & apart. Best of luck.

[Bulldog9]

If by the TO bearing you mean the thrust bearing behind the clutch rod, then that is pretty easily got at without taking the gearbox apart. It's a delicate looking round plate with a dozen or so little bearings in it, so it's possible some could beak out. A new one is cheap. Access it by removing the clutch operating arm (after loosening of the clutch cable completely), pulling out the outer body ( if healthy the flat of the body should be flush with the gearbox cover), then remove the 3 parts of the bearing with a magnet - a washer, the main bearing part, & another washer. If the bearing part is not broken apart & checks out healthy, I'd be tempted to re-use it, but the old adage is "if you can see it, replace it" is usually good advice & it is not expensive (the last one I bought was AUD$38). Button if up, adjust the clutch at the operating arm - screw the adjuster in until it touches, wind out an eight of a turn & set the locknut, re-connect the clutch cable then adjust that cable at the handlebar & you're good to go.

Do note that access to the rear of the gearbox is WAY, WAY EASIER, if you remove the rear wheel and swingarm. Well worth the inconvenience.

If this solves your problem, this is an easy fix. To check out further it's likely you might have take the gearbox out & apart. Best of luck.

Thanks. I didn't realize there was a. Thrust bearing behind the clutch push rod. I doubt based on the sounds and the response that it's that. It's more likely the actual throw up bearing on the clutch itself or possibly opinion bearing. Of course I'm probably basing this on my automotive transmission. Familiarity. I'll spend some time looking at the parts fiche to see what and where are the actual parts are.

The problem with a noise like this is that it may make that noise for the next 10 years without any function problem. Or? It may blow to pieces the next time I ride the bike.

Thanks again for the feedback was helpful.

[Tom H]

The thrust bearing is basically a throw out bearing. As mentioned, I would examine the thrust bearing for the squealing noise. But, you did say the clutch hand lever has been holding it's adjustment well, so it might not be an issue?

Tom

[Bulldog9]

The thrust bearing is basically a throw out bearing. As mentioned, I would examine the thrust bearing for the squealing noise. But, you did say the clutch hand lever has been holding it's adjustment well, so it might not be an issue?

Tom

Terms are confusing when comparing motorcycles and automobile clutches. Due to the dry clutch, I assumed, the Guzzi Clutch actuator was very similar to an automotive clutch. I just looked at the parts fiche, and I see how the mechanism works, and the thrust bearing you are talking about.  Totally different than I envisioned.

It shows part 22 in the Clutch 1 fiche as a 'new cup type' GU19083462, and Part 20 the thrust bearing 2A000376 and two bushings behind it.  Looking at it and thinking about the sound, I think you are spot on as the thrust bearing. This is a sliding and rotating shaft that as though it splines in and out on the clutch disc and applies pressure to the 'new cup type' or what I would call a throwout bearing that rides on the pressure plate.  Given that this shaft also has a gear that turns the primary shaft of the transmission tells me it spins, and that this thrust bearing is dry. That it primarily makes the noise only while moving and in gear, this shaft would be spinning and thus make the noise. I looked it up here: https://motoguzzi.genuine-parts-catalogue.com/moto-guzzi-motorcycles/750-MOTO-GUZZI-MOTORCYCLES/V7/2016/V7-II-Stornello-ABS/ENGINE/Clutch-II/459/3/1247002152/1114

I JUST got the bike together from a rear tire change and getting all the ADV stuff off it. It's been making the noise off and on since 2022, I'm not in a rush, but it makes me feel better that it is not the throw out bearing. Probably a winter project after I tackle the swingarm bearings on the Griso.

It's an interesting design. I've never had to do any clutch work on any of my Guzzi's so I've never taken the time to look at the fiche. I had imagined that the clutch arm pulled a shaft that went through the transmission body and pulled a yoke on the throwout bearing like an automotive clutch.

Thanks again for the insight. 

[malik]

The Guzzi is clutch IS very similar to a 1930's Dodge clutch I've seen, but for size. The Dodge one is bigger.

The clutch operating arm at the rear of the gearbox PUSHES on the outer body, then the trust bearing, then the inner body, before the clutch rod presses on the cup which activates the clutch plate. The whole mechanism is capable of only a fractional movement fore & aft, it's always amazing to me how little a movement is involved. The rod & bearing inside the shaft passage through the middle of the gearbox is WET. A smidgen of gear oil seeps into the passage to lubricate the works. The oil is held in & around the clutch rod by the clutch rod seal (in the rear end of the clutch shaft - on the other end of which is the geared wheel that turns the flywheel & the spline which holds the ins I de of the clutch plate). The usual point of failure is that clutch rod seal, which, in the older smallblocks, can fail at around 100,000km - which allows oil past the seal, up the rest of the clutch rod, onto the cup & from there onto the clutch plate. Voila! The clutch slips. The now oily clutch plate usually has plenty of meat left on it, but impregnated with oil.

The moral - if you do happen to separate the gearbox from the engine for any reason, do go the extra step & remove the clutch cover from the gearbox & replace the clutch rod seal. It's a $5 part.

And if you come across a used clutch plate anywhere in your journeys, save it - you can use the inner bit to make up a holding tool for the clutch shaft so you can remove the 100Nm nut.

One big note about NOISES - earlier in my ownership of the V7C, I had an annoying rattle that changed pitch & frequency with the engine speed - a persistent worry - until I found the actual cause. The header pipes are double walled & the spot welds at the bottom (muffler end) had let go & the inner was vibrating against the inside of the outer along with the engine. Easy to check when you know. I fixed it by replacing the header pipes. The common fix is to drill through the outer pipe in an unobtrusive place and spot weld the 2 pipes together again. The lesson here is that identifying the source of the noise is frustratingly difficult.

[SIR REAL ED]

My first thought is, perhaps it is a self-esteem issue?

How about renaming the bike from "Mello Yellow Stornello" to "Mighty Whitey" and see if that helps?

I read some place on the internet that Moto Guzzi weird noises are features not defects....

[SIR REAL ED]

Bulldog9,

Your bike might be happier with a more intellectual, sophisticated name.

Since it is Italian, I'd stick with a Latin variant.

Perhaps, "Righteous Whiteous!"

Blessed be the whiteous!

[Bulldog9]

Just ordered the O Ring, thrust bearing back to the bushings (#19,20,10,17). Will make it a winter project.



 

[Bulldog9]

My first thought is, perhaps it is a self-esteem issue?

How about renaming the bike from "Mello Yellow Stornello" to "Mighty Whitey" and see if that helps?

I read some place on the internet that Moto Guzzi weird noises are features not defects....

Nah, now it's just back to the Stornello.......... .. But with the Bitubo Guzzi SHocks, KOF Seat, and Guzzi bar end Mirrors, maybe the Stornello S..........