Bezzi / Barr Photoshop Phantasy Pthreadfest

[Dogwalker]

Then we agree. I was thinking more like the heads off the drone engine developed for the US department of defence. They have the design already and with some R and D should be able to make it work for the road.

Given that the 940 engine (two valves, hemi heads, and high bore/stroke ratio) produce 71 hp at the rear wheel, a long stroke, two valves, hemi heads 850 engine with a similar architecture could produce 65 hp at the rear wheel at best.

I think the original 4 valve 750s produced over 60hp in some variants,

The 750 4V produced 59-60 hp at the rear wheel, with 30mm carburetors and the same exhaust of the 2v version (all too small for that power) an 850 version (bigger stroke and bigger valves) could probably produce 68-70 hp at the rear wheel.

[Dogwalker]

As for the 4V 750's? They were the most dreadful grenades imagineable!

Is not written on the stars that a 4V engine should break. There is plenty of reliable 4V engines out there.

[Vasco DG]

Is not written on the stars that a 4V engine should break. There is plenty of reliable 4V engines out there.

I had to deal with it. I can inky go from my experience. Perhaps someone found some effective Fairy Dust'?

Pete

[Dogwalker]

Perhaps someone found some effective Fairy Dust'?

Could be, or maybe a 4V engine with right sized pieces does not break.

DogW

[Vasco DG]

Oh for f*cks sakes! Next you'll be trying to convince me that you know how many angels can fit on the head of a pin!

[fossil]

It´s interesting. At least here in Germany we are craving for more bikes with the Bellagio engine. Well, here seems to be another one: http://motosketches.blogspot.de/2014/11/moto-guzzi-xbr-940-varenna.html .

[Dogwalker]

It´s interesting. At least here in Germany we are craving for more bikes with the Bellagio engine. Well, here seems to be another one: http://motosketches.blogspot.de/2014/11/moto-guzzi-xbr-940-varenna.html .

Not bad.
With a pair of more road oriented tires, maybe it could be something to think of.
For the passenger grab handles, however, I would better see something more "V7 style " (simple chromed steel tubes).

[Mal Wright]

Given that the 940 engine (two valves, hemi heads, and high bore/stroke ratio) produce 71 hp at the rear wheel, a long stroke, two valves, hemi heads 850 engine with a similar architecture could produce 65 hp at the rear wheel at best.
The 750 4V produced 59-60 hp at the rear wheel, with 30mm carburetors and the same exhaust of the 2v version (all too small for that power) an 850 version (bigger stroke and bigger valves) could probably produce 68-70 hp at the rear wheel.

65 or 70hp at the rear wheel would be heaps. I was thinking claimed crankshaft horsepower to compare to the original 50 that they claim for the current 750.

And the drone engine I was referring to was a 4 valve head. Chuck In Indiana on this forum has started rebuilding (or should I say re-purposing) one of these engines.

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=65696.0

This is the drone head from Chuck's thread:

[Dogwalker]

The drone engine (V75 Hi.e) has a two valve hemi head.
Chuck has a Lario, with the 4V head of the photo, too.

In the picture, standard V75 head vs V75 Hi.e head (note the bigger valves of the hemi head).

[Mal Wright]

Thanks Dogwalker for clarifying.

The heads on the drone still look pretty serious, and with a lot more fin area. The holes and galleries look to line up the same, so could be just a head/barrel/piston swap onto the original block. Are the bore and stroke the same?

Also, is the 4 valve head on the Lario a herron design or a hemi design?

Thanks.
 

[Dogwalker]

The heads on the drone still look pretty serious, and with a lot more fin area. The holes and galleries look to line up the same, so could be just a head/barrel/piston swap onto the original block.

Infact. Same block, different heads. Same bore and stroke.

Also, is the 4 valve head on the Lario a herron design or a hemi design?

It's a "roof" design. The most used for 4 valves heads.

[biking sailor]

Interesting how this thread has taken a "more power from a small bloke" turn.  You can tell gear heads rule here!   ;-T

I like the concept of a small block Stelvio, although I would not be in the market for one.  My location and riding is primarily on road with high speed freeway work mandatory for a goodly portion.  Where I live, if you can't be cruising at 75 to 80 and get up to 95 pretty quick, Okie drivers are gonna make your life miserable!   :BEER:

When my Stelvio NTX became a deer casualty, I started again making a list of what I wanted in a bike.  Going through everything, engine, transmission, type of final drive, suspension, wheels/tires, ergos, wind protection, luggage options, and rider aids (everything from ABS to cruise control), coupled to a true assessment of how the bike will actually be used (are ya really gonna be Polar Bear smuggling), then what is important comes into focus.

Personally, my key points are ease of maintenance, power as described earlier, long travel suspension for our crappy roads, good fuel range, tubeless tires, upright standard riding position with good wind protection, and lockable luggage. Then there are many other points that I won't bring up here like parts availability, dealer/service support and dependability.

One last thing on the small block gearbox stuff.  I would want a 6 speed with a lower first gear, then 2 through 5 giving about the same ratios as the old 2 through 4 (curve smoothed out of course) and top gear just a bit taller for a slightly more relaxed 80 MPH cruising.  I have no idea why so many of these "all terrain adventure bikes" have a first gear so tall, you can't ride it at 5 to 10 MPH without slipping the clutch to prevent lugging the engine.  Real world traffic jams and tractoring through nasty off road stuff requires this type of riding control.

If you haven't made a list of each motorcycle component and what is honestly important to you, try it.  You might be surprised at what you come up with, that you have simple needs, want to dream about having a poser bike, are significantly compromising, or you need 4 or 5 bikes in the garage!   ;D

[Dogwalker]

Interesting how this thread has taken a "more power from a small bloke" turn.

And so, a V7 ie 4V project (note the Husqvarna SM610 adjustment screws).
https://it-it.facebook.com/officinaMurriFactory
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.378882702270142.1073741826.142589812566100&type=1

[rocker59]

If you haven't made a list of each motorcycle component and what is honestly important to you, try it.  You might be surprised at what you come up with, that you have simple needs, want to dream about having a poser bike, are significantly compromising, or you need 4 or 5 bikes in the garage!   ;D

4 or 5 in the garage is usually the answer I get... 

[Mal Wright]

Infact. Same block, different heads. Same bore and stroke.
It's a "roof" design. The most used for 4 valves heads.

Thanks again DW. Given what they have already with the 4 valve heads, it seems even more incredulous that they haven't updated the heads on the V7 already. The issues they have had in the past, in my limited understanding, are not insurmountable. I think they can source some decent valve gear and with better oil management in the head, there would be no reason not to update the engine to a four valve.

Also after a bit more research I have just realised that the Ducati Scrambler is exactly 75hp and 170kgs dry, and air cooled. It seems Ducati agreed with my some of the original design brief. This is a nice one, although not likely to be on my shopping list.

http://www.cycleworld.com/olgallery/132412/132438/21

[Dogwalker]

Also after a bit more research I have just realised that the Ducati Scrambler is exactly 75hp and 170kgs dry, and air cooled.

Yes, but has on head camshaft with 88mm bore and 66mm stroke, so can rev way higher than a pushrods and rockers engine with 74mm stroke, and has bigger valves.
With only two valves (the "drone" engine), is not possible to have the same performances. With four, and a little more displacement (4v 850cc), it may be possible. With four valves and OHC (at least as in the "Falco" prototype), is possible to beat it.

[Guzzistajohn]

[Green1000S]

BRING IT ON!!! ;-T

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

Would outsell the Bellagio imho

Needs the 8v heads tho!

Me likey

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[poorBob]

Hell to the yes!

[Guzzistajohn]

Me too. Just my opinion, (and that doesn't mean much) but it beats the pants off of anything I've seen out of Mandello in years. Makes a Griso look like a bastard cat!

[kevdog3019]

I could go for that real easily.  ;-T

[Lannis]

Whose concept is it?   Is it really a Moto Guzzi idea or a clever photoshop thingie?

In either case, I'd love to see Moto Guzzi produce it.   I really think it would sell, and not just to curmudgeons ....

Lannis

[Triple Jim]

I think it looks really good, but the rider is going to need a concept butt to be comfortable on that thin seat.

[rocker59]

I swear...  We really need an Oberdan Bezzi merged threadfest around here...

Bezzi's Photoshop fantasy art is just that:  Fantasy.

None of his Guzzi Photoshop Abominations will ever make it off of the computer screen...

[Guzzistajohn]

I think it looks really good, but the rider is going to need a concept butt to be comfortable on that thin seat.

I think they are trying to capture the effect of the original LeMans seat. It was like a pine 2X8. I have one in the garage if anyone needs one.

[oldbike54]

I swear...  We really need an Oberdan Bezzi merged threadfest around here...

Bezzi's Photoshop fantasy art is just that:  Fantasy.

None of his Guzzi Photoshop Abominations will ever make it off of the computer screen...

C'mon Mike , it is a perfect HIPSTER bike  :D I do like this one , reminds me of the OP's CX 100  ;-T

  Dusty

[Guzzistajohn]

I swear...  We really need an Oberdan Bezzi merged threadfest around here...

Bezzi's Photoshop fantasy art is just that:  Fantasy.

None of his Guzzi Photoshop Abominations will ever make it off of the computer screen...

Abomination or not, I think it captures the look of the good old LeMans, I like it. it's freezing ass cold out and this is NOT a political thread ;D party on you old pfarts!

[redrider]

Yowza!!

[Spuddy]

Lean, Purposeful, Authentic...