Bezzi / Barr Photoshop Phantasy Pthreadfest

[RinkRat II]

 Named after a Sushi restaurant in Tucson ~;  Except for the V-Max snorkel pretty cool looking concept and the fact the pegs aren't forward is a plus for me.YMMV

    Paul B :BEER:

[oldbike54]

 A new Gina Lollabrigida would be very nice  ;-T

  Dusty

[charlie b]

Rocker,

Thanks for merging these.  They are a waste of time.

[Vasco DG]

Let's put aside for a moment that this is a fantasy image from a Photoshop Hack.

Then, tell me how a California 1400 based special can be compared to a Griso?  In any way...  Other than the fact that they're both Guzzis...

Exactly. How something with a grossly overweight, obsolete, twin cradle frame with questionable rigidity, zero suspension subtlety could be thought of as even remotely 'Griso Like' is beyond me???

The Griso is no lightweight but it at least it attempts to be a quasi-*modern* motorbike even with its supertanker wheelbase. At least it has a rigid frame and decent suspension, even if it does need work to get the best from it!

Don't get me wrong, for its market segment which is generally undemanding in terms of handling and is very demanding in terms of bling and farkles the Cali 14 is an excellent machine, remember, I've owned and ridden one long distance, but a Griso it definitely ain't!

Even if this latest limp biscuit of a 'Design' did have any basis in reality it would still be an ugly, retrograde step that wouldn't fit any particular market segment in terms of purchasers and wouldn't have the performance to build a niche for itself. The wretched thing is fifty shades of ghastly no matter which way you look at it!

Pete

[youcanrunnaked]

For me, the C-clamp riding position kills it.  No way would I want to spend any time in that saddle.

[biking sailor]

So, you guys feel strongly the 1400 motor won't be the basis for a power cruiser Griso replacement.

Is it just the weight of the motor or the low revs?  Is the motor block not capable of being a "highly stressed" member to get rigidity and lower weight?

Would seem a shame MG developed the motor for such a limited line.  Could it be reconfigured with a bit bigger bore and shorter stroke for a higher reving, sportier power plant?

The Griso is getting a bit long in the tooth.

[Vasco DG]

There are very few differences between the 1200 and 1400 motors. The most obvious are the twin plugging to cope with the very wide bore and the fact that the cylinder heads on the 1400 use much, much larger cast in oil galleries for cooling around the exhaust valves than the simple drillings around the seats used in the earlier engines. Although the castings look externally near identical they are in fact quite different. The added height of the 1400 motor though comes principally from the rocker cover 'Covers' which are a cosmetic affectation.

The only other real 'Mechanical' difference is in the sump which is now castas a single piece with an internal plumbing casting to hold the OPRV and assorted other hocus-pocus that was previously hung off a separate spacer sandwiched between the sump and block. This sump is now being used on the 1200's as well, it eliminates a leak point and I would imagine cuts down both on production costs and assembly time.

Really apart from the cosmetic bits there is little in the 1400 motor to make it heavier than the 1200 so stating weight as an issue visa vis the motive unit is a bit of a red herring. There might be an extra kg or so in the extra alloy in the cam/rocker box casting and the gearbox has a cush drive in it once more, (Hooray!) but other than this?

As for vibration? The 1400 is silky smooth except at idle and I tend to think it's desire to shake about like a cheap sex aid when idling has more to do with the spark controlled idle and very large throttlebody and plenum chamber in the inlet tract. If the same engine was fed by twin TB's and stepper controlled I don't think it would vibrate appreciably more than a well set up 1200, maybe less due to the twin plugs.

Pete

[Chuck in Indiana]

"L" model so I could call it Gina Lollobrigida!

 :drool pant pant.. you *didn't* have to bring that up..
 ;D

[Penderic]

How about this with a round headlight and quarter fairing or maybe a 1400 Scrambler version? (Hip!)


 ;) Still needs footpegs!

[beetle]

At least that is a real bike.

[rocker59]

So, you guys feel strongly the 1400 motor won't be the basis for a power cruiser Griso replacement.

Is it just the weight of the motor or the low revs?  Is the motor block not capable of being a "highly stressed" member to get rigidity and lower weight?

Would seem a shame MG developed the motor for such a limited line.  Could it be reconfigured with a bit bigger bore and shorter stroke for a higher reving, sportier power plant?

The Griso is getting a bit long in the tooth.

It's not about the engine, because as Pete noted the 1200 and 1400 are basically the same engine.  

I feel strongly that any Griso replacement will not be based on the porky California 1400 chassis.

Surely any nuovo Griso will be shorter, lighter, and better handling, and carry more fuel than the current Griso.  

[youcanrunnaked]

^^^  Surely? 

As a function of wishful thinking, yes.

As a function of Moto Guzzi listening to its customers... not so much.

Shirley, you jest.

[rocker59]

So, YCRN, what do you see in YOUR crystal ball ?

[youcanrunnaked]

^^^  Water-cooled heads on an 8V engine, 150-ish hp, retro LeMans styling, top-shelf components, sporty ergos and geometry (not too extreme), no mpore than 445 lbs wet weight, optional touring and racing accessories....  two models:  Standard, with Marzocchi fork and Sachs shock; and R-spec, with Ohlins suspension.

Hey, a guy can dream!

[rocker59]

 :D

[Vasco DG]

^^^  Water-cooled heads on an 8V engine, 150-ish hp, retro LeMans styling, top-shelf components, sporty ergos and geometry (not too extreme), no mpore than 445 lbs wet weight, optional touring and racing accessories....  two models:  Standard, with Marzocchi fork and Sachs shock; and R-spec, with Ohlins suspension.

Hey, a guy can dream!

Why in the name of all that's holy would you wish crappy Marzocchi forks on *Anything*? Especially anything with *Sporting* pretensions.......

Pete

[youcanrunnaked]

Why in the name of all that's holy would you wish crappy Marzocchi forks on *Anything*? Especially anything with *Sporting* pretensions.......

Pete

A fair point, although I think Marz can make as good a suspension as you're willing to pay them to make.

Would you prefer Showa or KYB?  Same principle applies.  WP?  Probably too expensive for the "basic" bike.  What does Aprilia use on its non-R models?

[biking sailor]

How about this with a round headlight and quarter fairing or maybe a 1400 Scrambler version? (Hip!)


 ;) Still needs rearset footpegs!

FTFY

[biking sailor]

I feel strongly that any Griso replacement will not be based on the porky California 1400 chassis.

Surely any nuovo Griso will be shorter, lighter, and better handling, and carry more fuel than the current Griso.  

This is where we agree completely.  That's why I feel there's a chance they could use a new lighter/smaller frame with the engine stressed, more compact single shock swing arm, steeper steering angle...  And proper sized tires for better handling!

Don't know if we would ever see a sub 500 lbs model again though, not with all the mandated ABS and market required electronic controls.

[kenvil1]

Just came across this:

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/moto-guzzi-x-rally-1200-concept-oberdan-bezzi/#more-83751

[oldbike54]

 Go ahead Rocker  :pop

  Dusty

[rocker59]

Go ahead Rocker  :pop

  Dusty

I swear.  I don't get the popularity of the Oberdan Bezzi Photoshop stuff.

It's mostly pure crap, and it gets published all over the web as "concept" and "prototype" like it's something more than just doodles on a napkin by some drunken over enthusiastic fan boy.

[youcanrunnaked]

I welcome Oberdan Bezzi's contribution, and that any other conceptual artists who want to spend their time daydreaming on paper about future Moto Guzzi products, just as I welcome all of the "hipsters" who are busy creating custom bikes from Guzzi components -- much to the derision of some on this forum.

These are Guzzisti!  They are your brothers -- embrace them.  (At the least, stop mocking them.)

Face facts: Nobody buys a Moto Guzzi for basic transportation.  People buy the bikes because they are perceived as something interesting, something special, something exciting to own.  The worst thing that can happen to such a vehicle brand is for it to become irrelevant.  In the motorcycling world, but for people like Bezzi, Moto Guzzi is pretty close to becoming irrelevant.  It has minuscule sales.  It does not have a stable, reliable, or convenient dealer network.  It has no racing presence.  Its bikes are rarely included in magazine "shootout" articles, and when they are reviewed, the press is rarely favorable.  The bikes are based on outdated engine architecture.  A large number of their bikes leave the factory with serious teething problems. The marque is constantly at the precipice of extinction.  Piaggio Group has a history of buying and then shutting down historic Italian motorcycle marques: Gilera, Benelli, Laverda -- Moto Guzzi could easily be next.

Personally, I "like" and share as much good press for Moto Guzzi as I reasonably can.  If I have a positive comment, I will make it; negative comments I try to keep to myself.  I can usually find something to like about most Moto Guzzi-based customs.  (Okay, that "Pasta Hog" monstrosity that was on eBay a few years ago is the exception, but, c'mon....)  Not all of Bezzi's designs are my cup of tea; he's had some winners and some misses, but overall, I think his work should be encouraged. 

[rocker59]

My gripe is that all too often this enthusiast's daydreams on paper are posted and published as factory concepts and prototypes.

They are not, and never will be.

Sure, having some buzz about Guzzi is fun and interesting, but the way Bezzi's daydreams on paper are presented is actually more of a distraction than anything else.  His drawings are circulated and printed way out of proportion to his influence on the brand, his influence being right about zero.

Now, if the magazines were publishing sketches from someone like Marabese or Galluzzi, that would be noteworthy since their designs have come to life as real-deal Moto Guzzi...

[rodekyll]

As long as we agree it's all photoshop, I think the better discussion is who would win in a fight -- batman or green hornet?

[youcanrunnaked]

^^^  It seems to me that your complaint is more with lazy journalists and bloggers than Mr. Bezzi.  Noted.  However, I don't think that distracts from my point.  What is it that they say about publicity?  That all publicity is good publicity?

Moto Guzzi went through a dry spell in the late '80's- early '90's where NOBODY was talking about the brand.  Frankly, I find it remarkable that large, multinational corporations such as Aprilia and Piaggio were willing to spend millions of lira to keep the marque afloat.  Maybe the current media interest in Moto Guzzi will translate to some good fortune for the brand; maybe not... but it can't hurt.

[biking sailor]

But do thesse guys have any influence on factory designers?  I think probably yes, so long as consumers show an interest.

The customizers do choppers, cafe' bikes, scramblers...  then the factories start to come out with the Honda Fury, the Triumph Thruxton, the Ducati Scrambler...

Whatever catches the eye of the buying public will become the product of those wanting to sell to them.

[rocker59]

But do thesse guys have any influence on factory designers?  I think probably yes, so long as consumers show an interest.

The customizers do choppers, cafe' bikes, scramblers...  then the factories start to come out with the Honda Fury, the Triumph Thruxton, the Ducati Scrambler...

Whatever catches the eye of the buying public will become the product of those wanting to sell to them.

What is Bezzi selling to the public?

It's not trend setting custom motorcycles that are making the show circuits and magazine centerfolds...

What is it?

[youcanrunnaked]

^^^  Ideas.  He's selling ideas.  More power to him, I say.  

Moto Guzzi's bolt-on kits to "customize" the V7 is a good example of what biking sailor is talking about.

http://www.garagemotoguzzi.com/en/

The web site makes it clear that Piaggio saw what customizers and sketch artists were doing to the V7, and saw an opportunity to make these styles accessible to a wider audience while making a few extra lira at the same time.

It all starts with an idea -- then a rendering -- then working in metal.  None of these guys is simply taking a hammer to a motorcycle.
 http://www.garagemotoguzzi.com/en/story-scrambler/

[rocker59]

 bump...