My California Vintage handles like a dog.

[Lou Snuts]

Mine handles great.  I don't usually ride over 70mph, and I'm not rough on it, but it handles with ease an no wobbles at all.  I adjusted the steering damper slightly, and adjusted the compression and rebound slightly on the front, but the rear shock adjustments are exactly as I received the bike brand new.  This entire issue seems very weird to me.  Has the owner ever tried a different Vintage?  I'm still on the original Lasertechs (only at about 2800 miles) and have made no modifications except for addition of a Givi top case.
Also, I don't think anyone discussed rider size or weight, or how loaded down the bike is.  Just wondering if that could be an issue, but probably is not.

About me - I'm not a racer by any means but I do like to make progress - the bike handles fine if I'm bimbling along - my old Cali' handled fine if I gave it some stick too - the Vintage doesn't (or didn't, read on). I haven't ridden another 'newer' Cali of any type. I'm 5'10", and 11 stone (long and thin), and the bike misbehaves whether naked or loaded.

Update on my handling probs.

Thanks for your input everybody - I have made progress!!

It's very windy here today, but after yesterdays adjustments and checks, and my 'rider input' (as suggested by you all - not pulling on the bars etc) the bike did run better today. It remained pretty steady at 90 (though buffeted by sidewind) it felt safe, not as if it was about to break into a tankslapper - began to twitch a little over 90, which is well illeagal anyway, so I can live with that!

Twisties were better too, perhaps more room for improvement by dropping the yokes down the forks (my next adjustment), which I'll follow with more suspension tweaking and new tyres (eventually).

What's changed?
Nipped the steering head bearings down.
Removed steering damper.
Softened rear shock damping (spring left on softest cos I'm light)
Fork rebound and compression set to middle for each - as a datum for further trials.
I removed the panniers, and it has no screen on at the moment - but if I can get it to run 'naked' I'll be happy and accept that adding extras will have an effect on the handling. I'd like to try a higher seat too, but it'll have to wait until funds allow!

Not as good as my old Cali' yet but it's definately better - never felt dangerous today, and I pushed it fairly hard once the roads dried out.

So THANKS to all for the input. I'll keep ya posted as to further developments (if your not 'bored shi*less' with this thread already!)

[luthier]

No truly Lou, I'm interested to learn how you fix it. Did you tighten your snuts under the battery by the way?
Definitely keep us posted.

[v7classic]

I've got 13.5K on my stock trim 09 CalVin.  Solo, 5'10", 180#, I would experience a nasty weave, would occasionly appear at 80, more often than not at 90.  Two up, seemed more contained.  My son, 5'6", 140# would get the weave anything above 70, described as even nastier than anything i experienced.  Tightening steering head nut eliminated the weave.

[tallokierider]

My '09  Calvin will also start weaving or wobbling at 70 or 75 on occasion. I figured it was due in part to the large after market windshield, narrow  front tire and the wicked winds we have  here. It can be really unnerving. I've owned numerous makes of bikes and have never experienced this to this extent. I have also gotten very cautious taking turns, because it has felt like the rear tire was slipping or not holding as well as it should.

[BigDave in PA]

Pay close attention to your steering damper. At a rally, a friend complained about his Cali's handling. I took it for a ride to compare it to mine and at speed it was downright scary. He had the damper tightened thinking it should help. I looked close and found the pivots in the damper had some play and the frame bracket under the tank was loose. I backed the damper off so it was not active and the problem went away. With the bracket being loose and the play int the damper bushings, the tighter you made the damper the worse it was.

[DaddyRabbit]

Mine (09) buffeted at the same speeds, various iterations of windshield placement, LamLip, Saeng, etc....  The only thing that moderated it was tightening the steering damper.  I finally bought the H&H fairing and 90mph became a regular for me.  I wish I had an answer for you but it looks like you covered all my issues, including tire change/air pressure.

[tallokierider]

I thought I was told by Mike (MPH Cycles) that the steering damper on my 09 Calvin was not adjustable.  Did I misunderstand?

[dnovo]

OK, anyone have a Vintage that doesn't handle like a dog?

Mine doesn't handle like a dog at all. And this even with the largest Rifle screen as well. Some of my sport bikes friends have followed me through the twisties and were amazed as how fast and steady it is.

Part of this may be that Jim at Rose Farm delivered my bike and went through it the right way and actually checked it and road tested before delivery. Good setup from a Guzzi expert will make all the difference, IMHO.  Dave

[harrytief]

Replace everything you removed EXCEPT THE STEERING DAMPER...then go buy a new/better damper and live happily ever after.
Harry

[Texas Turnip]

OK, anyone have a Vintage that doesn't handle like a dog?

Karl Wurth has well over 100,000 miles on his Vintage and he hasn't complained about the handling. He put on the Hannigan faring from the git go.

Tex

[Cam3512]

My '09 is far from being a "dog".

More like a "Raped Spotted Snow Ape" - Steady as a rock.

[spridget]

My CalVin handles quite well...despite running the shocks with only a little preload.  Its intuitive and quick steering, without being twitchy.  I'm shocked that something this big handles so well.

+ Me too...........no complaints

[cwiseman]

Mine handles like a champ. Love it

Anyone remember who had the stock CALVIN exhaust mufflers for sale ?

[myway]

put me on the list my 09 is no dog,,,,,I think it owns mountain  roads myself,,,I just got off the old connie,,1000 concours,,,I did not have a problem with that either,,,tires ,,bearings,,listen to the pros,,it's no dog,,mine has a high speed wooble around 90 in dirty air that I don't like,,but I blame the fork mounted windshield,,,Dan

[Mike A.]

does this weaving problem show up only after a 2-3 visit to the local pub? ;D


Seriously...I have two 2001 californias:  a special, and an EV. When I bought the ev, it handled like crap. I felt sure it was some kind of bent frame problem or handlebar problem or something! The previous owner had put a non-stock tire on the back (can't remember the brand/model). When that tire wore out, I put the same tire I had on my stock ev (the stock tire), and bingo, the problem went away. I find that the Californias handle just fine with stock tires.

[jmdaia]

raised the forks....or lowered the forks....3/4" +/- is all we could get above the top triple tree before hitting the handle bar

in order to get me closer to flat footing ...still no flat footing for me

difference in handling has not been noticed by me

[HDGoose]

raised the forks....or lowered the forks....3/4" +/- is all we could get above the top triple tree before hitting the handle bar

in order to get me closer to flat footing ...still no flat footing for me

difference in handling has not been noticed by me

That is something I have never had to deal with. ;) Guess being 6'7" is the reason.

[Dean Rose]

raised the forks....or lowered the forks....3/4" +/- is all we could get above the top triple tree before hitting the handle bar

in order to get me closer to flat footing ...still no flat footing for me

difference in handling has not been noticed by me

That is something I have never had to deal with. ;) Guess being 6'7" is the reason.

You bragging or complaining there Goose?  ;D



Goose

[lazlokovacs]

my cal vin handles beautifully since it got a swannee/H&H fairing.

Out in Germany I cruised at 170kmh+ all day long (100mph) and it felt like it was on rails, not to mention the wind protection!

And yes, a 60kg pillion is perfect.

[doktorwlodek]

Hallo from Warsaw, Poland (European Union) !

I think I have the same problems with my vintage. When I try go up 70-80 mph (130-140km/h) weaving of  bike is horrible. If remove windsheld - it starts about  90 mph. Its not "shimmy" ((5-10 kHz). It's "weaving"(app. 1 Hz= 1/second).

 Bike: California Vintage 90 Anniversary (white-brown colour, limited ed.). I'm first owner. It has 2000 km only. Warrianty still exist.

 I check all: tyres, pressure, wheels, bearing of head, bearings of wheels...
And...at the end...
...I found strange "clearens" of rear wheel bearings (2 ones). It was not regular bearings (without any space) but bearings C3-specification - bearings like that constructors use inside engine, where temperature of work is much, much higher, than into rear wheel. "Axial clearance" of those bearing is about 0,5 mm. "Axial clearance" measured on "top" of tyre - about 5 mm (!!!). I'm not sure why somebody used C3-model there ? Maybe it's mistake of MG Company?
 I ask mechanics in MG authorised service in Warsaw, but they can not answer if those part was used corectly.
 So... I decided " I do it myself":
 I removed C3-bearings and used regular ones. And... then winter and a lot of comes to Poland (week ago) and I can not chec if  I'm right...

PS sorry, my English is still "under construction" :)

[oldbike54]

I had no trouble understanding your well written treatise . Keep us updated .
Dusty


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[balvenie]

            Thanks for reviving this topic, doktor. It has given me food for thought regarding my bike's handling, itself an "under construction" project ;D ;-T

[doktorwlodek]

 Please don't get me wrong. I don't expect Cali ever to be "Master of Stability" in any speed... It is no Hayabusa :) But...  With
my old 95' Cali I had no any problem with steering, no any weaving - with, or without, big windsheld (almost as big as "Germania" model).

 May any Vintage User to check wich model of bearings (C3 or regular) are used in their bike (may be when somebody will change rear tyre).

By the way. Last 2 years, after Euro 2012 Soccer Campionship we have, in Poland, fiew new highways (really !!!). It is not Germany, yet, but highway-building is going in right direction. Max speed on highway is 140 km/h but police start try stop the drivers over 160 km/h. So, almost anybody drive highway almost 160. Truck speed: 100 - 110 km/h. To ride safetly rider should keep between 110 to 160 on our highway. It is not so easy with my new Vintage because of those shitty weaving  :(

[oldbike54]

Is it OK if we call you Dok ? A well set up Cali should handle and steer well , don't sell it short . Hmm , dawns on me one of my favorite MC people is Taddy Blazuziak (sp) , met him at an Endurocross event , Poland can be quite proud of him , great racer and a nice young man , if a bit crazy .
Dusty


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[doktorwlodek]

 Of course, please call me Doc or Wlodek, Vlad,   :)

..."You can trust me - I am Doctor !"   :)

 I agree, Taddy Blazusiak is one of the best in Polish and Europe Motocross and Enduro history. Nice person, too.

 I don't wanna to sell Cal - Vin, yet. I'm brave and like mechanical challenges ! (... and 1400 models are for pussyes  :) ...no, no, no . It's joke, of course  :) But, to say true, 1100 models are 80 kg lighter and only 25 HP weaker. 1100 Cali is "living youngtimer", in 2012 still be produced. I have faster bike (Haya), too, but really like ride Cali :)

 It is not so good situation when company did not check bike stability before they sell it. It is dangerous for user. I remember times before 1990, when, if you buy new bike from East Europe, you buy completly uncheck machine. Of course russian URAL motobikes were much, much worse -  was build like "kit bikes". If You buy anyone You must immidietly rebuilt it because of "life hazard" :).


PS While ago people from MG Aut. Service from Warsaw call me and they said, they wanna to send these C3 bearing with large clearance to main factory, to Mandello,Italy, because of possibility of damage  to production of these bearing. Next week we will see...

[oldbike54]

Dok , you are going to be a welcome addition to WG , a sense of humor to go with intelligence .
Yep , have some experience with older MZs , cool but quirky , and of course CZs were almost common in the US at one time , on an MX starting grid in 69 half the bikes would be Czeds .
Dusty


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[Horseman]

Dusty,
  A bit off topic, but quite a battle in AMA Endurocross this past year between Taddy and Mike Brown.  Have to admit I was pulling for Brown.  He's an old dog. ;D  Good stuff!

[Red Dog]

Posted this before but here it goes:

2011 California Black Eagle 1100 did the same thing with both stock Metzlers and Avon Road Riders.  Tried 3 or 4 different windscreens.

The Fix: Got rid of the cruiser handle bars & put on some DanMoto adjustable clip ons, raised the forks up about 1-1/2", installed a small windscreen and played with it until I got it right.

The weave may be rider induced to some degree.  What I found out was that the wind would come around the screen and "play" off my shoulders sometimes my helmet vibrated like a two stroke.

One day I took the windscreen off & when the weave started I put my hands down on the center of those cruiser bars by the clamps and leaned into the wind like I did on the old 850T and the weave stopped.  I started playing with lower & narrower bars but did not like any of them so I went with the adjustable clip-ons mounted above the top triple tree.  I can ride in an upright cruiser position or lean forward and put my feet on the back pegs.  have ridden 500 mile days with no problems.  See pic below:


screen shot windows

[Brattus]

Had the metzer laser tec tyres tyre to start with changed then for B45s and doesn't track or weave but the other thing is tyre pressure to low and they track. I usually ride two up and don't have a problem on our roads but one thing to look at is the load on each wheel like race bikes. Get the scales out  and have a piece of wood the same  size as the bathroom scales. Weigh the front wheel weight and then the rear. too much weight to the rear could cause problems. But the other thing every change you made did you do one thing at a time and see if it made a differance

[Tom]

Bias ply tires will flex in the sidewalls even if you're running them at the oem air pressures.  Better to run them near the max air pressure on the sidewalls.  A lot of times 40 lb. will be better than 36.   ;-T