Motus merged threadfest

[Chuck in Indiana]

I've been in manufacturing all my life, and as I said when I first saw what they are doing.. that sucker's going to be *expensive*. My question is the target demographic. The guy that can afford them might be a little old for the mission Motus is designed around. Actually, 30K sounds low to me.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Was it Lame Goose racing, and Sidney Conn.

Yeah, Sidney Conn.. duh.  ;D

[guzzisteve]

They are not just selling motorcycles but will be selling the motors for different applications .  Make an adapter plate and put one on your dune buggy.

[youcanrunnaked]

You can have a very nice Connie 14, FJR, or even an 8V Norge for about half the price.  If a trick V-4 is your thing, a VRF 1200 is a lot less expensive, and you can get the touring farkles and auto shift option and still be under $20 grand.

Heck, even a Ducati Mutistrada S Touring, with ABS, programmable engine maps, electronically adjustable Ohlins suspension, and the full touring pack is a good $10,000 less.  That baby also has a Moto-GP inspired Superbike engine, trellis frame, swoopy styling, and is plenty exotic.  What more does Motus bring to the table, to justify the extra $10K price?  American made?

The MTS is a nice bike, but I doubt their sales model will succeed.  

[AJ Huff]

I've been in manufacturing all my life, and as I said when I first saw what they are doing.. that sucker's going to be *expensive*. My question is the target demographic. The guy that can afford them might be a little old for the mission Motus is designed around. Actually, 30K sounds low to me.

I think they will sell well at Riders Hill, good dealer with a good track record in the right location just north of Atlanta. Lots of money in these hills.

-AJ

[tazio]

2012 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited MSRP $28,899, and in THIS soft economy? I hear there doing pretty good...
-From the beginning, what a strange concept to convince public to invest in. But you know, 5 short years later, the goofy things are every where! Who'd a thunk it !!!
Jay Leno getting serial #001 was great PR.

I gots me fingers crossed for a Motus success story.
Better give Jay one...

[FuzzyRider]

First time I saw a picture of a Motus my immediate reaction was 'How are they going to keep the heat off the riders legs?" . Looks like it would be really really hot...

[Lannis]

2012 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited MSRP $28,899, and in THIS soft economy? I hear there doing pretty good...

"Lots of money in these hills"

"$28,899 and in this soft economy?"

Got a breaking news flash for you, guys.   Look around you.   NO, NOT at CNN, MSNBC and at Fox and the jabbering heads who need you to listen to their doomsday rap, AROUND you.   

The economy ain't soft no more.

Lannis

[tazio]

The economy ain't soft no more.

Lannis
[/quote]



Still soft at my house ;D

[Lannis]

"The economy ain't soft no more.

Lannis"

Still soft at my house ;D

Things are always tight some places, and rocking and rolling in others.    I see a lot more rocking and rolling going on than "tight" ..... especially when people can drop the kind of money they do on bikes!

Lannis

[kevdog3019]

And Can Am's competition is???  They are on three wheels not two. Makes a difference when you compare. There are a lot of folks who grew up with three-wheelers on their property. Also older folks who've lost balance, etc.
It's apples to oranges. You get more with Can Am than a regular bike. More parts equals greater expense.

I understand there are a lot of start-up costs, R & D engineering costs, completely new engine design and manufacturing costs, etc. but in the end it boils down to price. Your average person looks at price to make that final decision. No matter how good your product is you can always price yourself out of the market.  I manufacture goods myself and would love to charge what I feel is an appropriate price for my time, etc.. I think my products are the best and so do most of my customers. I've got the Jay Leno of musicians on them also, but I need to sell them, so I price them at a point where they stand out as a quality product but affordable to even college students. Each one I sell is advertising and adds to the popularity. Soon others notice and it starts to take off. My demand is up so I raise the price. My second product just went out and I have a 4 month order volume because I now have a recognizable brand that means something. They know what they get with me. I start a little low in price with this product to get them out there and will then raise the price on it as well. Volume already tells me I could do that, but I still want more in the field.  Overall I will make more money selling more at a little lower price.   
I will watch carefully to see if they hit their price target affectively. They need to sell bikes is the bottom line. $30-$40k is a tough sell for most on a two-wheeler.  May I add that this bike of theirs is not fully chromed bling!  There are other bikes that are fantastic in this bikes niche as well for much less.
Kevin

[guzzisteve]

Maybe now is the time to sell all my bikes and just have 1, not getting any younger.

Next question to them will be about sidecar use, what a tug.

[tazio]

Maybe now is the time to sell all my bikes and just have 1, not getting any younger.

Next question to them will be about sidecar use, what a tug.

In Latin, "motus" refers to movement of the mind and soul.
Maybe that movement will extend to a sidecar, would love to fly-the-chair w/ that badboy!

[Dilliw]

 
I will watch carefully to see if they hit their price target affectively. They need to sell bikes is the bottom line. $30-$40k is a tough sell for most on a two-wheeler.  May I add that this bike of theirs is not fully chromed bling!  There are other bikes that are fantastic in this bikes niche as well for much less.
Kevin

I would think their competitor is more the Indian bikes than the Spyder.  Limited edition, American made bikes targeting empty nesters with money to burn.  Can-Am gets the cruiser guys and Motus gets the sport types.

What will be interesting is to see if they can sell more 2013's than Guzzi U.S using this model.  With all the recent posts on this board I doubt it.

[tazio]

My referencing Bombardier/Can-Am was to point out their "Chutzpah" concerning a bizarre product.
With the 3 wheeler on my property, I gave myself 26 stitches just below kneecap. Not so fond a memory.
Can-Am Spyder RS SM5 is $16499 msrp. Same engine as their $29k Spyder. Just thinking Motus could do a
"welfare" version and bring price down some.

-said in all respect to kevdog3019.
 michael 

[AHAMAYfrank]

This is a nice discussion.  I hope Motus is successful.  I am not in the correct income bracket to be able to justify such a purchase, but other enthusiast types may be.  I just bought my first Guzzi a few months ago and I have never paid more for any motorcycle.  If I wouldn't have found one of the left over 2008 1200 sport models (at Riders Hill), I wouldn't have a Guzzi now.  1100 miles in and I really like my new bike. ;-T

I would think that the Motus Group must have done a bit of market research before setting model specs and price, to be able to justify all the investment of time and money.  I don't know anything about the organization; however I would think that the mechanical knowledge and spirit of such an endeavor must include some financial/marketing types pulling back on the reins.

Frank

[AJ Huff]

I agree Lannis. Things have improved. But also I see the gap, here at least, to have widened between Tue top and the bottom. Here anyone making a salary over $33k is considered outrageous yet a 2BR/2BA is still well over $200k (but down from $250k).

This area is unique. The money from Atlanta and Florida will buy Motus at Rider's Hill. BUT, they are not the "average buyer." Now, will Motus sell well in other places, I don't know but all of my comments have been re: this area.

-AJ

[Lannis]

I agree Lannis. Things have improved. But also I see the gap, here at least, to have widened between Tue top and the bottom. Here anyone making a salary over $33k is considered outrageous yet a 2BR/2BA is still well over $200k (but down from $250k).

This area is unique. The money from Atlanta and Florida will buy Motus at Rider's Hill. BUT, they are not the "average buyer." Now, will Motus sell well in other places, I don't know but all of my comments have been re: this area.

-AJ

It's just kind of gotten me thinking about the last 50 years or so (I pick that time frame because I can just about remember back that far!).

Look at, say, 1964.

Base Ford pickup truck - $1900
Base Ford car             - $2200
Harley 74 bike            - $2000
Honda 250                 - $500
Triumph 650                -$1000

And there was no one except a few Foxfire Book subjects and a few moonshiners up where you live now.   Duck and Corolla on the North Carolina coast were nothing but dozens of miles of deserted beach.    Why would anyone live up there in those mountains or on a desolate strand of beach?   Who could AFFORD to?  No one, that's who, because that's who was living there.

NOW, giant chalets and vacation housing developments interrupt every ridgetop and hang off of every mountainside.   Thousands and thousands of houses, at literally a million dollars each, sit shoulder to shoulder along the formerly deserted beach, for miles and miles with no interruption.

This ISN'T Cornelius Vanderbilt and Bill Gates building and buying these things.    These are Federal employees, owners of small construction companies, doctors, lawyers, bank managers, hundreds of thousands of them.

And look what bikes and cars cost:

Ford F150 pickup - $28,000
Ford Taurus -        $23,000
Big Harley -          $20,000
Honda 250            $4,000
Suzuki 650            $6,000

The relationship is about the same.    People have a LOT more money than they did then for discretionary, recreational purchases like vacation homes and motorcycles.   

Question is: Are we getting to the point where people MIGHT pay 1/10 of the price of a second home in the mountains around Ellijay, or the price of the wife's Subaru, for a nice American made touring bike?    We KNOW they'll pay that price for a farkled-out, looks-just-like-a-million-others, billeted and chromed big toy V-twin.   Will they do it for a limited edition touring bike at the same price?   

Lannis   

[rocker59]

We KNOW they'll pay that price for a farkled-out, looks-just-like-a-million-others, billeted and chromed big toy V-twin.   Will they do it for a limited edition touring bike at the same price?   

Lannis   

Lannis,

People buy million dollar homes in gated communities to impress thier friends who also live in million dollar homes in gated communities.

People buy blinged-out Harleys to impress thier friends who also own blinged-out Harleys.

No one will know what a Motus is, so it will not impress thier friends. 

Therefore, the people in your example will not (though they easily could) buy a Motus.

[QCGoose]

We're making all these assumptions as if it's the way things WILL happen, no other way; it's all set in stone.

That's not true. Whether Motus screwed up with their pricing, or whether they know something that we don't (gee, there's a thought!), not a single one of us can say what will or won't happen; who will or won't buy these bikes. Regardless of what some of us think we might know about "the biz", the economy, or whatever. Regardless of what history has shown us with other such similar ventures... THINGS CAN HAPPEN! Things can change. And stranger things have happened.

Most of us can't afford them. This much has been shown to be obvious. But this country is full of people with money to burn, and who knows; they just might come out of the woodwork for these things- unique American products. That's enough to catch the attention of many, including those with the means to purchase such products.

Or they might tank. We just don't know.

[Lannis]

Lannis,

People buy million dollar homes in gated communities to impress thier friends who also live in million dollar homes in gated communities.

People buy blinged-out Harleys to impress thier friends who also own blinged-out Harleys.

No one will know what a Motus is, so it will not impress thier friends. 

Therefore, the people in your example will not (though they easily could) buy a Motus.

A lot of truth to that.   You have achieve "Impress Your Neighbor Critical Mass" before you have a steady market in big homes or Harley Davidsons.   Motus likely isn't there.

Lannis

[kevdog3019]

I actually don't think it's that unique. It's not an eye-grabber like an Indian or fakled up Harley, it's simply a nicely built (I suspect??) touring bike with a Guzzi-like engine. I think some of the Guzzi's look more eye-grabbing tbh but we know their sales aren't stellar even at this price. So if a rare Italian Guzzi (yes rare... "who makes that" rare) isn't selling like hot cakes at this price, something tells me this other rare "who makes that" Motus with a couple bikes that aren't as Italian eye-catching might sell worse at almost triple the cost. You're not going to attract the helmet-less pirates with this bike. They are the biggest fashion-statement crowd around. Touring bikes are not fashion statements but some will spring the $$ because its simply a cool touring bike with a different engine and they have the $$ to buy it. They are likely real riders. This bike is aimed at them. My question is how many Of them are out there with big pockets?
Kevin

[youcanrunnaked]

Touring bikes are not fashion statements but some will spring the $$ because its simply a cool touring bike with a different engine and they have the $$ to buy it. They are likely real riders. This bike is aimed at them. My question is how many Of them are out there with big pockets?
Kevin

In my experience, these are extremely practical, seasoned riders.  They are engineers, pilots, chemists, law enforcement officers... steady, reliable, logical people, who don't throw their money around and don't give a rat's ass what the fashion of the day is.  I've already mentioned that the competition is a good $10 -$15 K less expensive.  I have no doubt that the bike will appeal to these riders.  There are also probably more than a few who can afford it.  The question is whether they are going part with that much money to own one.  I don't think so.

[Lannis]

In my experience, these are extremely practical, seasoned riders.  They are engineers, pilots, chemists, law enforcement officers... steady, reliable, logical people, who don't throw their money around and don't give a rat's ass what the fashion of the day is.  I've already mentioned that the competition is a good $10 -$15 K less expensive.  I have no doubt that the bike will appeal to these riders.  There are also probably more than a few who can afford it.  The question is whether they are going part with that much money to own one.  I don't think so.

Part of the question will be - What will the Motus provide that existing touring bikes won't provide?    The Gold Wing provides certain things, the Concours 14 certain others, the big Beemers have their own charm, and Guzzi has a unique feel and style all its own that isn't duplicated by the rest.

Will it have a "feel" of quality like a Swedish Mauser rifle bolt that just jumps out at you?   Will it have a subtle, attractive vibration that lets you know the motor is working for you, along with stellar handling?   

Will it use its handlebar switches to trigger relays to operate the lights instead of running too much current through a cheap switch?

There's no telling what might drive a man to something new like this ... when there are perfectly nice, functional touring bikes out there for 1/2 or 2/3 the price ....

Lannis

[dilligaf]

I THINK I would like to own one, I'm just not sure why.  ???
Matt

[Mountain Bob]

Part of the question will be - What will the Motus provide that existing touring bikes won't provide?    

Lannis

What Motus is unlikely to provide is a network of dealerships to provide on-the-road service for those many touring riders who don't "roll their own" like so many Guzzi riders do.  I know at least one local doctor who rides with his wife (on her own bike) for mega-miles each summer.  He can easily afford any bike(s) he wants, but rides ST-1300's instead of BMW's because "There's a competent Honda dealer in every little farm town, and it's too far between BMW dealerships to be worth the risk of that trip-killing trailer ride to the Big City if your Beemer breaks down."  

When you factor in cost, reliability, and nationwide availability of parts & service for the Japanese Big Three or your Road King, a season of touring on anything else makes little "practical" sense -- which is why most Guzzi riders are at least somewhat capable of "keep 'er running" repairs.  Buying a MOTUS for real touring makes little sense to me, unless the owner is so "fixed" that down-time in odd places is part of the attraction.  

Still, I'm considering putting one of my own MV Augustas up for sale on eBay  ::),  'cause there's something about the Motus that does call out "ride me," just a bit . . .

--mb

(Possible related WG Thread: "Is it OK to use 'practical' and 'motorcycle touring' in the same sentence?" )

[AJ Huff]

In my experience, these are extremely practical, seasoned riders.  They are engineers, pilots, chemists, law enforcement officers... steady, reliable, logical people, who don't throw their money around and don't give a rat's ass what the fashion of the day is.  I've already mentioned that the competition is a good $10 -$15 K less expensive.  I have no doubt that the bike will appeal to these riders.  There are also probably more than a few who can afford it.  The question is whether they are going part with that much money to own one.  I don't think so.

My bet is the people who buy one are the people who own an MV Augusta F3 and want a sport-tourer to park next to it.

-AJ

[AHAMAYfrank]

...  

...  

Still, I'm considering putting one of my own MV Augustas up for sale on eBay  ::),  'cause there's something about the Motus that does call out "ride me," just a bit . . .

--mb

...

There you go, demographic complete!

If I were willing to let one of My MVs  ??? go, I would definitly buy a Motus too.

Frank

[Lannis]

There you go, demographic complete!

If I were willing to let one of My MVs  ??? go, I would definitly buy a Motus too.

Frank

If I had an MV, I'd certainly sell it and buy a Motus!   And I am UNANIMOUS in that!

[Mountain Bob]

If I were willing to let one of My MVs  ??? go, I would definitly buy a Motus too.

Frank

No problem, Frank -- I'm 'waaay more than willing to let go of one of your MV's !
Now if you'll just mail me the signed title, with a map to your place . . .   ~;

--mb