Motus merged threadfest

[Arizona Wayne]

Jay Leno seems to have no $ limit or space.   :)

[youcanrunnaked]

^^^^  Yes, but the motto of his garage is:  "More money than brains."

Okay, so consider Mr. Leno's Motus pre-sold.  That makes one....

[kern16]

They have an exhibit at Barber's ea year. My eyes went directly to the chain drive because I wondered the same thing? I wish now I had taken a pic of the chain it looked like something Caterpillar would use. To say it was ROBUST would be the understatement of the year. They told me adj (oil, Tighten etc about every 700 miles?) Also had the opportunity to visit Eric Buell's tent and see his SUPERBIKES he was building. I believe they built only about 700 units @ around $40K ea.

[rocker59]

  My eyes went directly to the chain drive because I wondered the same thing? I wish now I had taken a pic of the chain it looked like something Caterpillar would use. 

I've not seen a MOTUS up close, but is it not just a 630 x-ring chain?

[tazio]

I read it has an XW-ring chain by RK rated at 20k miles & a "hybrid" rear sprocket w/ lifetime warrenty.
Thats all I could find out.

[Kentktk]

^^^^  Yes, but the motto of his garage is:  "More money than brains."

What makes you say that? I find him to be a true enthusiast albeit with lot`s of money. He does a fair amount of wrenching and is quite knowledgeable. I also find him humble and not in your face about what he buys and can afford.

[youcanrunnaked]

What makes you say that?

Three reasons:

1.  Jay Leno has said this about himself and his car / motorcycle obsession, on a number of occasions.  See, e.g., http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/extras/articles/now-thats-a-hot-rod---article/index.shtml#item=66616

2.  Leno frequently refers to aficionados of exotic automobiles as members of the "more money than brains" club, and he enthusiastically includes himself as a member.

2.  IIRC, if you visit Jay Leno's Big Dog Garage, there is a sign hung over the door, which has this as the shop's motto.  (I recall this last point from a video on his website, but I couldn't find the image with a quick Google search.)


It's meant as a self-deprecating, tongue-in-cheek comment on the highs and lows of a very expensive hobby  You're supposed to laugh at the comment, not attack it.  Maybe you need to lighten up?

[tazio]

And zero down, low rates and up to 84 months financing.

...7yrs.!! :o, hell, just pay cash for that sucker.

[kevdog3019]

If their "high-end stuff" is so expensive to justify their pricing, maybe they should consider the necessities only to reduce it.  Is carbon fiber really necessary on a non-racebike?  What's a few ounces here and there on a touring bike?  Some of it seems like overkill to me for what it is.  You don't just throw the best at a bike, then price it way out of the market price unless you have some goal other than volume.  It's a sport-tourer not a sport bike where the goal is to win at all costs.  
-Kevin

[Blueboarhound]

This is an interesting looking machine. Has anyone seen one in person yet?

http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/index.html

[bad Chad]

As far as I have heard, we can't buy one yet, even if we want to.

[leafman60]

Yeah, I've seen one a while back.  They're made not too far from me and our local BMW dealer has signed up as a Motus dealer.

I dunno.  The one I saw seemed too crude to me.  Maybe they have refined it.  It's not going to be cheap.  A few will sell as novelty bikes but I am not sure the major manufacturers are in for much competition from Motus for a while.  

[Arizona Wayne]

Yeah, I've seen one a while back.  They're made not too far from me and our local BMW dealer has signed up as a Motus dealer.

I dunno.  The one I saw seemed too crude to me.  Maybe they have refined it.  It's not going to be cheap.  A few will sell as novelty bikes but I am not sure the major manufacturers are in for much competition from Motus for a while.  

What, if you have to know they(2models) start @ $30K to $37K, then they're too rich for your blood. ???  But if you're interested you can buy a motor separately.  :drool

[kevdog3019]

 They seemed to be going along great, then they came to a halt. Seems like they are going through some difficulties to me.
Kevin

[rocker59]

This is an interesting looking machine. Has anyone seen one in person yet?

http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/index.html

Welcome to the MOTUS Merged Threadfest!   :BEER:

[kirb]

They seemed to be going along great, then they came to a halt. Seems like they are going through some difficulties to me.
Kevin

Long road going from prototypes, design change (no GDI), to dealer setup, to EPA approval (big delay), to limited production, to bikes people can see.
They had very agressive plans and have not met any of the expected 'dates' that they shared. I think they stopped sharing dates because nay-sayers would keep blasting them for it.

I think you will see 2013 models. Not sure how many, but I predict the pre-orders will be filled. I was going to be a pre-order until the prices shot up over $25k.

[guzzisteve]

I think they are going along slowly, and cautiously, so as not to go defunked soon after production starts like Henderson.

[kirb]

I think they are going along slowly, and cautiously, so as not to go defunked soon after production starts like Henderson.

EH was an interesting case in venture capitalists. They had a dream, promised a ROI, built a plant big enough to meet the ROI, burn through all your money in infrastructure, don't get enough sales to stay afloat.

Motus isn't begging for money to even going down the EH road. They have a plan to go the other way- sell a high price, high value, 'dream' bike that is limited production. They are building a bike they wanted to own. I was totally on board all the way to the price announcement and dropping GDI. I feel the bike is at least $6k too high for the above average motorcycle nut to pull the trigger on. I never thought it would be in the same price ball park as even a Ducati, but it is in the Bimota type ball park...ick.

I'm sure they will do just fine. I read the email from the founder and just don't see how they can get enough of a foothold to lower prices.

Still interested in having them be successful. We need more US startups like this.

[kevdog3019]

http://thekneeslider.com/

Well,
     They're crating and selling engines now!  Yep... just over $10k and one is yours.  Unbelievable they'd do this, but makes me think they are feeling nervous about selling the bikes and want to recoup their investment.  What it doesn't do is make you want to feel special about owning their bike because of the special engine in it.  The engine is their bike and now it's for sale to anyone.  Doesn't sound good.

-Kevin

[ohiorider]

Kev - thinking about an article I read a while back ..... I believe they planned to resell their powerplant as a crate engine from the start.  I'd still be nervous about finding too many customers for the Motus.  Not inexpensive, for sure.

[Rotten Ralph]

Who's going to work on them? ??? ???

[kevdog3019]

Kev - thinking about an article I read a while back ..... I believe they planned to resell their powerplant as a crate engine from the start.  I'd still be nervous about finding too many customers for the Motus.  Not inexpensive, for sure.

That may be true, but before they've really sold any bikes seems a little absurd.  So... the rest of their bike is worth 20K seems even more absurd.  Maybe they will part out the rest of it.  Anyone want a headlamp for $2K?  I'm being a bone-head I realize, but I had so much hope for these guys (edit:as a bike manufacturer).
-Kevin

[tonUPRacer]

I wouldn't ever spend that kind of money on a bike but when you consider that HD is getting close to 30K for a CVO bike, it doesn't seem that outlandish for truely new and unique bike. There are no other American sport tourers out there. I think Eric Buells' current race bike is close to 40K and that's a full on race bike. As for the others Victory etc. they are just big ol' cruiser chopper things. So, I think they will sell bikes and if they want to sell a crate engine, it gives other builders a platform to experiment with. I hope it goes well for them.

[bad Chad]

How heavy is it?

[Mark West]

http://thekneeslider.com/

Well,
     They're crating and selling engines now!  Yep... just over $10k and one is yours.  Unbelievable they'd do this, but makes me think they are feeling nervous about selling the bikes and want to recoup their investment.  What it doesn't do is make you want to feel special about owning their bike because of the special engine in it.  The engine is their bike and now it's for sale to anyone.  Doesn't sound good.

-Kevin

Seems smart to me. Generate some cash without having to have a lot of overhead. Help increase the number of engines built, allowing them to reduce the cost a little.

Motus has chosen the start with low volume and high price as a way of getting the company off the ground. This allows them to not spend so much in facilities, tooling, people, etc. but requires them to find buyers willing to spend serious coin on their machine. That means they need to generate buzz, go to moto events, do a lot of promotional stuff, which also has costs attached. If they find and convince enough people with bug bucks to buy, they can start spending some money on ways to reduce cost, which will allow them to lower the price making it easier to sell, etc. There aren't a lot of bikers with money to burn so they need a pretty compelling product or your doomed. The Norton and Vincent resurrections would fall into the low volume/high price strategy companies. Hasn't gone so well for them.

Alternatively, they can try to raise enough money where they can build a whole factory capable of doing high volumes so that they can start out with a lower price and help grow sales faster. That makes it easier to sell units initially but they need enough money to carry the whole thing till volume grows and it seems that everyone underestimates that amount. Indian (the Gilroy one) and EH went that route but had to leverage themselves so much that even when sales got better it wasn't enough to pay off all the investors.

In both cases, its just damned hard to generate enough revenue to support the organization until it can stand on it's own. Even if Motus only sells a handful of engines a year, it can go a long way to improving their cash flow and may make the difference between success and failure.

I wouldn't invest any hard earned money on Motus but I do hope they succeed.

[guzzisteve]

Hellava motor for a Triking.  Look at Rotax 990's, you can buy one from Aprilia or BRP and go w/more than a couple management systems.

[Lannis]

Hellava motor for a Triking.  Look at Rotax 990's, you can buy one from Aprilia or BRP and go w/more than a couple management systems.

A Motus is one of those things I'd like to have but will probably never have the right amount of money at the right time ......

Lannis

[Arizona Wayne]

Hellava motor for a Triking.  Look at Rotax 990's, you can buy one from Aprilia or BRP and go w/more than a couple management systems.

I can't imagine a V4 on the front of a Triking that looks proper. Especially 1 that's water cooled.   :D

[rocker59]

Hellava motor for a Triking. 

And don't doubt that some of the builders are already working towards that...  Someone like Ace Cyclecar...

 :BEER:

[kevdog3019]

Seems smart to me. Generate some cash without having to have a lot of overhead. Help increase the number of engines built, allowing them to reduce the cost a little.

Motus has chosen the start with low volume and high price as a way of getting the company off the ground. This allows them to not spend so much in facilities, tooling, people, etc. but requires them to find buyers willing to spend serious coin on their machine. That means they need to generate buzz, go to moto events, do a lot of promotional stuff, which also has costs attached. If they find and convince enough people with bug bucks to buy, they can start spending some money on ways to reduce cost, which will allow them to lower the price making it easier to sell, etc. There aren't a lot of bikers with money to burn so they need a pretty compelling product or your doomed. The Norton and Vincent resurrections would fall into the low volume/high price strategy companies. Hasn't gone so well for them.

Alternatively, they can try to raise enough money where they can build a whole factory capable of doing high volumes so that they can start out with a lower price and help grow sales faster. That makes it easier to sell units initially but they need enough money to carry the whole thing till volume grows and it seems that everyone underestimates that amount. Indian (the Gilroy one) and EH went that route but had to leverage themselves so much that even when sales got better it wasn't enough to pay off all the investors.

In both cases, its just damned hard to generate enough revenue to support the organization until it can stand on it's own. Even if Motus only sells a handful of engines a year, it can go a long way to improving their cash flow and may make the difference between success and failure.

I wouldn't invest any hard earned money on Motus but I do hope they succeed.

I don't buy your theory of keep the price high and only sell a few so as to keep overhead low, etc. it's hard to go anywhere when you sell so few. If they sell more at a lower price it creates a buzz. Bottom line is they need to sell bikes. Lots of bikes to succeed. High prices won't do that. Sellings parts on their bikes won't be enough either. The engine is cool, but I can't think the masses are going to buy it for anything cept a few who might find a way to have some fun with it. I don't think they're clearing that much per engine anyhow. So far they have disappointed me. They should find investors instead of selling engines. That's the one part they should never let go of if they really want to sell their bikes. The panache is gone for me with this move. Hell, it's like KFC selling off their recipe. That secret helps to sell their product.

One other thing... I think they realize they did well in designing a bike with that engine, but it's a bike engine and that's what people want it for.  It makes sense, especially for us Guzzi types ('cept no shaft??).  Anyhow, they are spinning their wheels lately for sure, but now they are going to let someone else do it with their engine instead of having to buy their bike to get that engine.  Sorry, but their bike is that engine!!  Unique for sure.  Who really thinks the other bits are that cool to pay 30K for a bike of theirs?  Build your own now.  They are making out $20K on the other stuff per bike minimally.  Tell me where they'd be making their money, engine or other bits?  The sum of the whole is worth a lot more than that engine it seems.  Stupid.
-Kevin