Motus merged threadfest

[rocker59]

By the time they get it to market, it will be due for an update!   :BEER:

[oldbike54]

Modern chains are a marvel, light cost effective very little maintenance easy to change. Don't want to start a fight here, just my experience with both types of drives.

IMO

mike :-)

Very true , but the design requires turning the drive 90 degrees , why not use a shaft ? Hello Mike  ;-T

  Dusty

[kirby1923]

Point taken.

Drive line orientation is a factor for sure.
Those that prefer the blip to go sideways will favor the shaft. I won't be converting my CX or Beemer to a chain, but chains (modern) get an undeserved bad rap!

I'm rambling again, my apologies.

mike :-)

[Triple Jim]

Those that prefer the blip to go sideways will favor the shaft.

The engine's going to cause the sideways blip with a chain or a shaft.   :)

[kirby1923]

My point is that if sideways, makes sense to keep it longitudinal. If not, makes sense to keep a chain.
At least IMO as a mechanical type.

mike

[Cheese]

The engine's going to cause the sideways blip with a chain or a shaft.   :)

I'm not challenging this but what happens if the flywheel is 90 degrees to the crankshaft, or if in the same plane spins in the opposite direction?  

[oldbike54]

The engine's going to cause the sideways blip with a chain or a shaft.   :)

Seems like they are using a counter shaft to minimize the torque reaction .

  Dusty

[kevdog3019]

By them selling their engines they are under-cutting their bikes.  I understand they need money but they are cutting their own throats with this plan if they want to build their bike business.  The engine is the mainstay of their bike, now they're saying here you go...
They are confused it seems.  Parting out a bike before it's built doesn't look good to investors IMO.

WHERE'S CHUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Triple Jim]

Agreed that the effect can be reduced or eliminated with a little clever design.  I have no idea if the Motus engineers completely eliminated the sideways torque reaction, but my guess is that they did not.  I find that effect completely unimportant, and don't even notice it any more, when I'm riding my Guzzi.

[rocker59]

By them selling their engines they are under-cutting their bikes.  I understand they need money but they are cutting their own throats with this plan if they want to build their bike business.  The engine is the mainstay of their bike, now they're saying here you go...
They are confused it seems.  Parting out a bike before it's built doesn't look good to investors IMO.

Or, you could look at it as diversification.

The engine was developed with installation in mini race cars in mind , so the motorcycle is only part of the plan.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I can understand the appearance thing, some, but it DOES speak to me.

I just wonder whether cash flow is going to kill them a-borning...  they've had to pay for all the facilities, all the material, all the labor, all the publiciity, all the engineering, all the testing, and it's been years and they've got nothing coming in, unless it's very bold investor money.

I'd have to have some sort of windfall in my pocket to pay the price, though; but if I had it I think I'd sign up.

Lannis

Remember Sidney Conn, the Guzzi hot air balloon and LSR guy? He's the dad of the president of Motus. Being a Guzzi Guy, I got to sit on one and start it up. It is surprisingly comfortable for an inseam challenged guy like me, and I loved the riding position. Sounds bitchin, too.
That said, I told them that I thought they were missing their demographic. The bike is targeted to testosterone riddled younger sport touring guys, and the only people that have enough money to buy it are older. <shrug> It's a cool concept, and I wish them well, though.
There has to have been someone with extremely deep pockets financing this operation.. a complete startup like this comes with staggering costs.

[kevdog3019]

Or, you could look at it as diversification.

The engine was developed with installation in mini race cars in mind , so the motorcycle is only part of the plan.

Agreed... but a stretch to say it's better for those applications.  It's harder to make a Motorcycle engine than a car or cart engine because of it's size, etc.  I have to think they did it for the motorcycle first, had issues, then said "hey... we need to stay afloat, so lets sell our cool engine".  Well... good and all at first, until word has it you can buy the engine for X cost (which isn't that high from what I read), then realize their bikes are $30k plus and the other bits on the bike don't add up, so you say lets get the engine only or screw them for trying to shaft me on the bike as the sum of the parts doesn't add up.  If they have a big "in" with this engine and they can make a mint, I think that's a great route, but I think it was plan B for them.  If it doesn't work out, they look like they sold out and the outcome won't look so peachy.  The exclusivity is gone for sure.

[blackcat]

What do these bikes weigh? The website just gives the engine-transmission weight (225lbs) but not the entire bikes weight.
http://motusmotorcycles.com/files/Spec-sheets_MSTR15.pdf

[Chuck in Indiana]

What do these bikes weigh? The website just gives the engine-transmission weight (225lbs) but not the entire bikes weight.
http://motusmotorcycles.com/files/Spec-sheets_MSTR15.pdf

I can't tell you, but just standing over it, it *feels* really light.

[rocker59]

What do these bikes weigh? The website just gives the engine-transmission weight (225lbs) but not the entire bikes weight.
http://motusmotorcycles.com/files/Spec-sheets_MSTR15.pdf

585 lbs

[rocker59]

Agreed... but a stretch to say it's better for those applications.  It's harder to make a Motorcycle engine than a car or cart engine because of it's size, etc.  I have to think they did it for the motorcycle first, had issues, then said "hey... we need to stay afloat, so lets sell our cool engine".  Well... good and all at first, until word has it you can buy the engine for X cost (which isn't that high from what I read), then realize their bikes are $30k plus and the other bits on the bike don't add up, so you say lets get the engine only or screw them for trying to shaft me on the bike as the sum of the parts doesn't add up.  If they have a big "in" with this engine and they can make a mint, I think that's a great route, but I think it was plan B for them.  If it doesn't work out, they look like they sold out and the outcome won't look so peachy.  The exclusivity is gone for sure.

The engine was developed for multi-use.  Remember, it's half a Chevrolet small block V8.  Downsized a bit.  It's actually called the "baby block".

Development was dramatically reduced due to the engine being based on current  Corvette LT engine architecture.

Everything I've read since the start was that the engine was intended to be sold for use in racecars and ATV/UTVs as well as be used in the motorcycle.

[fotoguzzi]

585#wet..

[rboe]

The engine was developed for multi-use.  Remember, it's half a Chevrolet small block V8.  Downsized a bit.  It's actually called the "baby block".

Development was dramatically reduced due to the engine being based on current  Corvette LT engine architecture.

Everything I've read since the start was that the engine was intended to be sold for use in racecars and ATV/UTVs as well as be used in the motorcycle.

According to the Motorcyclist article; the motor is loosely based on the Chevy motor but parts do not interchange. Development seems to be going along just fine, and they are doing production bikes now.

The flywheel problem was not mentioned in the article; I wonder if that came up after the article was written and too late for publication.

I sat on a preproduction mule in Scottsdale, very nice, does feel a LOT lighter than 585 lbs. I was a bit shocked by that weight.

The biggest hurdle; that price. It's not astronomical high, but $30K is well beyond the average persons "oh what the hell why not!" limit. You'd need to be well healed. Well focused - and being single would help too. Considering what I have in three bikes; in theory I could have afforded it, but damn, then I wouldn't have a dirt bike!

If this thing takes off (I want to say their target number is 300/year) then I bet they do a shaft bike down the road. Not that anything is wrong with a chain (or belt), but I think a big section of their target buyer would prefer a shaft.

[rocker59]

Some links for the folks who think Motus designed and builds this engine.  Performance Design and MAST Motorsports are the reason we have the MST engine...  And the third link notes the intention to sell the engine separately...

http://performancedesign.com/tag/motus

http://www.mastmotorsports.com/

http://thekneeslider.com/is-the-motus-v4-baby-block-crate-engine-the-future-of-old-school-hot-rodding/

[Lannis]

That's good info!

But we've been talking about this bike for 5 years now ... it's been gettin' ready to get ready to go for a long time .....

Lannis

[rocker59]

That's good info!

But we've been talking about this bike for 5 years now ... it's been gettin' ready to get ready to go for a long time .....

Lannis

Excelsior-Henderson.  Elio. Several past Indian resurrections.

Yep.  MOTUS is right in there with the best of them.

 :BEER:

[bad Chad]

So as of today Febuary 2015, this bike can still not be purchased by Joe Big bucks, or anyone else?

[bad Chad]

Excelsior-Henderson.  Elio. Several past Indian resurrections.

Yep.  MOTUS is right in there with the best of them.

 :BEER:

I was seconds away from posting the same!! :D :D

[Lannis]

Excelsior-Henderson.  Elio. Several past Indian resurrections.

Yep.  MOTUS is right in there with the best of them.

 :BEER:

Now I have to disagree a bit there.

1)  MOTUS isn't trying to cash in on some 80-year-old "nostalgia" kick like Ariel or Henderson or Indian or any of those.   The "half a Chevy V8" might be a little bit, but the connection is tenuous.   It's a new bike, not trying to look like an old one.

2) The "Elio" is just a straight scam.   They're never going to build any of those for $6500, and most people knew that from the start.   It IS, however, conceivable that MOTUS might be able to build and sell their sport-tourer for $30,995.   There's nothing inherently baloney-ous about that concept and practice.

I don't think that the MOTUS is completely unreasonable.   I like it, the clean-looking engine, the relative lack of electronics compared to many modern bikes (I counted the switches on a friend's Gold Wing the other day and lost count at 56 ...) and it's possible that I'd buy one.

But it's been a LOOONGG time and they're not for sale yet.   They've run them at Bonneville, tested them in magazines, and set up dealers.   But no one is riding one yet ....

Lannis

[rocker59]

But it's been a LOOONGG time and they're not for sale yet.   They've run them at Bonneville, tested them in magazines, and set up dealers.   But no one is riding one yet ....

It was that way with E-H.  They were a real-deal bike.  They even sold a few before reality set in.

A rep brought one around to our Triumph/Ducati/Moto Guzzi dealership and I got to ride it.  They were really wanting us to pony-up for a dealership.

Smoke and mirrors.

Until MOTUS gets bikes on the road, burning gas with paying customers, I'll still believe it's smoke and mirrors.

The bike should've been out years ago.  With expected production of 200 units per year, they're exempt from most EPA/DOT requirements.  They're a specialty builder. 

I really wish they'd kept the thing quiet and under wraps until it was ready for sale.  Of course, no egos could've been stroked with that plan...

[redrider]

Ditto on the modern chain. A great lube is essential along with using it every other fill-up. Sadly, o ring types have the maintenance free misconception. Liquid Performance is my choice.

This bike should have been a shaft drive.

Turn the engine 90 deg like the Ducati Apollo and a chain makes sense.

[travelingbyguzzi]

Remember Sidney Conn, the Guzzi hot air balloon and LSR guy? He's the dad of the president of Motus. Being a Guzzi Guy, I got to sit on one and start it up. It is surprisingly comfortable for an inseam challenged guy like me, and I loved the riding position. Sounds bitchin, too.
That said, I told them that I thought they were missing their demographic. The bike is targeted to testosterone riddled younger sport touring guys, and the only people that have enough money to buy it are older. <shrug> It's a cool concept, and I wish them well, though.
There has to have been someone with extremely deep pockets financing this operation.. a complete startup like this comes with staggering costs.

Hey, Chuck, I still have a bit of testosterone left and my wife just inherited a whole bunch of money.
I like that it weighs in under 600 lbs. I don't like that it isn't a shaftie.
I would never buy a first year of production model but maybe Jay Leno will buy two.
I wish them well, I am still waiting for an American bike that suits me.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Hey, Chuck, I still have a bit of testosterone left and my wife just inherited a whole bunch of money.
I like that it weighs in under 600 lbs. I don't like that it isn't a shaftie.
I would never buy a first year of production model but maybe Jay Leno will buy two.
I wish them well, I am still waiting for an American bike that suits me.

Me, too. Buell was close with the S3T, but the vibration issues killed that one for me.

[youcanrunnaked]

Too long to bring to market; the market has moved on.

No ABS, no TC, no multi-map throttle, no adaptive suspension.  After the initial euphoria, I predict sales will be slow.  Most people will not spend twice as much for half the features.

This will make for an interesting case study in business schools as to how NOT to launch a new product. 

[rocker59]

Too long to bring to market; the market has moved on.

No ABS, no TC, no multi-map throttle, no adaptive suspension.  After the initial euphoria, I predict sales will be slow.  Most people will not spend twice as much for half the features.

This will make for an interesting case study in business schools as to how NOT to launch a new product. 

I agree with these points.   ;-T