To MGNOC, or not to MGNOC, the threadfest

[Arizona Wayne]

I believe the paper version of the MGNOC monthly magazine costs went up and Frank asked his customers what they preferred paper or e-mail.  That's when I left the club, but apparently the consensus was to go the way it is now.   :-\

[Testarossa]

I have a suggestion that might help MGNOC a lot -- it's certainly helping to grow my organization, the International Skiing History Association.

Digitize the back issues of the newsletter and make them available through the website to paying members.  It's a matter of scanning each page into a text-searchable pdf. Takes about a minute per page. The resulting online library would be a treasure trove of technical advice and great stories. And you could search the archive for text strings just as you do with the search function on WG.

To see how this works visit https://skiinghistory.org/explore/issues

The other thing I'd love to see is Guzziology available as an e-book. Sell it for $50 through Amazon; no printing costs, and no shipping. Maybe sell an annual subscription for updates. Are you listening, Dave Richardson?

[dilligaf]

When MGNOC stopped printing the newsletter I lost interest and dropped out.  Then came the 9 week ride to Sitka, AK and I remembered the Contact Directory and rejoined.  That's how I found RK who was a great host.  I also enjoy--very much enjoy the MGNOC Rallies and without MGNOC there would be no rallies.  So I keep my membership current for that reason.  I miss the printed news letter.  :BEER:
Matt

[bad Chad]

I believe the paper version of the MGNOC monthly magazine costs went up and Frank asked his customers what they preferred paper or e-mail.  That's when I left the club, but apparently the consensus was to go the way it is now.   :-\
[/quote

Frank did not ask his customers, I know because I used to be one.  I have talked to many current and former members none of whom ever said they were consulted. I found out that the newsletter went digita, after several months of not receiving my hardcopy I sent an email to Frank asking why.  He responded with something to the effect of "don't worry about it you can get the digital newsletter now."

[bad Chad]

There will be and are rallies without MGNOC.

[Markcarovilli]

I have a suggestion that might help MGNOC a lot -- it's certainly helping to grow my organization, the International Skiing History Association.

Digitize the back issues of the newsletter and make them available through the website to paying members.  It's a matter of scanning each page into a text-searchable pdf. Takes about a minute per page. The resulting online library would be a treasure trove of technical advice and great stories. And you could search the archive for text strings just as you do with the search function on WG.

To see how this works visit https://skiinghistory.org/explore/issues

I believe all the back issues have been digitized and available to members.  Not sure if they are searchable....

Mark

The other thing I'd love to see is Guzziology available as an e-book. Sell it for $50 through Amazon; no printing costs, and no shipping. Maybe sell an annual subscription for updates. Are you listening, Dave Richardson?

I have a suggestion that might help MGNOC a lot -- it's certainly helping to grow my organization, the International Skiing History Association.

That is a good idea!

Digitize the back issues of the newsletter and make them available through the website to paying members.  It's a matter of scanning each page into a text-searchable pdf. Takes about a minute per page. The resulting online library would be a treasure trove of technical advice and great stories. And you could search the archive for text strings just as you do with the search function on WG.

To see how this works visit https://skiinghistory.org/explore/issues

The other thing I'd love to see is Guzziology available as an e-book. Sell it for $50 through Amazon; no printing costs, and no shipping. Maybe sell an annual subscription for updates. Are you listening, Dave Richardson?

I have a suggestion that might help MGNOC a lot -- it's certainly helping to grow my organization, the International Skiing History Association.

Digitize the back issues of the newsletter and make them available through the website to paying members.  It's a matter of scanning each page into a text-searchable pdf. Takes about a minute per page. The resulting online library would be a treasure trove of technical advice and great stories. And you could search the archive for text strings just as you do with the search function on WG.

To see how this works visit https://skiinghistory.org/explore/issues

The other thing I'd love to see is Guzziology available as an e-book. Sell it for $50 through Amazon; no printing costs, and no shipping. Maybe sell an annual subscription for updates. Are you listening, Dave Richardson?

[dilligaf]

My understanding, from Frank, that it was was a cost cutting move due to an increase in postage. I like to play with my computer but  magazines I prefer to read when the commercials come on. So, I seldom read the digital MGNOC news letter.  And since I'm a member of the club, I just don't see the problem.  The only MG rallies I know about are the ones listed in the MGNOC news letter. The BMW rallies I like to attend (Buzzard Bottom, A gathering of the Clans and so forth)  are held in locations I enjoy and are listed on the venue's webpage. I'm not a member of the BMWMOA so looks like I'm a a free loader when it comes to that club when I apply the same criteria for being a member of MGNOC.  But, should the BMWMOA go away tomorrow I wouldn't miss it.

My South Carolina ABATE dues are the same as MGNOC and I receive a nice printed, in color, news letter each month.  It's down in the den and when a commercial comes on I grab it up and read. I do Same with the Antique Motorcycle Club. I do miss the printed MGNOC news letter.  :BEER:
Matt     

[Brightblade]

You want my contact info send me a P.M.  My offer stands because the more I read through information you all seem like a good group. I'm one of those guys that see someone broke down on the road I'll stop, make sure the person has help coming, help change a tire, you know just help if I can.  Too many people just drive by anymore...

No I didn't make it to the rally, but I saw a few of you driving around which is why I started looking at Guzzi's.  The next one thats there I'll make the time to stop by.

[bad Chad]

One way to put relevancy on what MGNOC is offering in the way of value is to ask, " If MGNOC where to show up as a brand new offering tomorrow, how well would it be received?" 

[Randown]

Yep, part of "Real" is that even when people see the same situation and have all the facts, they may very well come to different conclusions about "how it got there" and "what ought to be done" .... that's how you know it's real and not just a mutual admiration society.

I WOULD say I like you too, but there are too many guys watching and it would feel sort of funny so I'll say instead,

"See that Bears game last week?   Yeah. Hell of a game. Hell of a game.  Bears gonna go all the way this year ....."     :D  :D

Lannis

I’m not afraid to publicly profess my like for YOU Lannis. I want to SHOUT it from the rooftops…I LIKE LANNIS & I DON’T CARE WHO KNOWS!

It’s true, I’ve had a man-crush ever since you described the care you use to strip your brit-bikes of their chains to bathe & cleanse them in hot oil. Oh, those were some lucky chains.

 :-* :-* :-*

[Randown]

So I'm "watching the jar".

"Seeking to prevent".

"Sabotaging".

Dang, I had no idea I was so powerful and influential.   Either that, or there's some paranoia in the air.

I know that it absolutely worries some people to DEATH when they see an opinion expressed on WG that is different from theirs.   Rocker's and Luap's opinion (the ones that count) are that everyone is welcome whether they contribute anything or not.  My opinion (which doesn't count, sabotage, prevent, etc) is that people who use the forum to communicate, buy, sell, express opinions, trash-talk, learn, look at pictures, etc maybe should contribute a little something toward the costs of doing all that.  

Sorry if that bothers you.

Lannis

That is PERFECTLY FINE & REASONABLE for you to have that opinion!

Where you go off track is characterizing guests as FREE-LOADERS. They are not. They are 100% in accordance with the hosts wishes. As guests of the hosts you have no right to disparage or alienate them.

It would be a nice gesture & in the spirit of the season if you could find it in your heart to extend an olive branch for your trespasses.

[Lannis]

That is PERFECTLY FINE & REASONABLE for you to have that opinion!

That's good, then.

Where you go off track is characterizing guests as FREE-LOADERS. They are not.

What if I say they are?  What happens then?    ???

Admiral Rickover, in his Naval Nuclear program, was always interested in hearing "The Dissenting Opinion".   He got worried when everyone was agreeing with each other ... he knew that some major cock-up was on its way ...

Lannis 

[rodekyll]

That's good, then.

What if I say they are?  What happens then?    ???

Admiral Rickover, in his Naval Nuclear program, was always interested in hearing "The Dissenting Opinion".   He got worried when everyone was agreeing with each other ... he knew that some major cock-up was on its way ...

Lannis 

If you were to keep saying there are freeloaders on this site when you know for a fact that it's not true, then you are not offering a dissenting opinion.  Regardless of how you spin it, you are repeating a lie.

 . ..and speaking of spin . . .  Admiral Rickover didn't take lunch with folks like you or me to get their read on the nuclear navy.  He had a qualified staff giving him opinions.  I seriously doubt that they'd last long repeatedly pitching a dissenting opinion to Rickover if Rickover had already explained to them that they were mistaken.

[Lannis]

If you were to keep saying there are freeloaders on this site when you know for a fact that it's not true, then you are not offering a dissenting opinion.  Regardless of how you spin it, you are repeating a lie.

 

A freeloader is someone who participates in an activity that other people pay for, and that they are welcome to pay for if they like, but who decline to help. 

We had a guy come up to the Guzzi rally one year, not associated with the rally, while dinner was being served. 

"Hey, what's going on here?  Looks good!"   

"It's a Moto Guzzi motorcycle rally"

"Well, what do I have to do to get dinner?"

"Well, we've been asking for $5  from people who didn't pay for dinner in the rally fee."

"I don't see any of these other people paying $5 to eat!"

"Well, that's because they already paid in their rally fee."

"So you're telling me you're serving dinner, and a hundred people are here eating, and you're not going to let me eat unless I cough up money ...?"

And the answer was ...

"No, come on ahead, grab a plate.   Food is here, dessert is over there, and drinks are in the cooler."   I've got a name for that; sorry if you don't like it.

And when I made a presentation to the Admiral in 1982 at Babcock and Wilcox on the progress of his new automated fuel manufacturing facility, I don't remember you being there.   Maybe you were back in Washington?

Lannis

[Randown]

He wasn't an Admiral he was a Baron & his name was spelled Richtofen, get your history right!

[rocker59]

He wasn't an Admiral he was a Baron & his name was spelled Richtofen, get your history right!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_G._Rickover

[dilligaf]

He came aboard the submarine I was serving in. We knew he was coming and I think we started cleaning that boat about two week ahead. I don't know if it was out of respect, fear or both. I know we breathed a sigh of relief when he left. The CO made 0-6 so must have been OK. You know I remember all the preparations for the Admiral's visit but I don't remember him.  :BEER:
Matt

[EldoMike]

back to the subject.....I think Moto Guzzi fans owe a lot to Frank Wedge for keeping it together for many years...I think he has been paid for that and now believe he should have turned it over to a more tradition form of club years ago.

[Brightblade]

He wasn't an Admiral he was a Baron & his name was spelled Richtofen, get your history right!

Maybe your thinking of Manfred Von Richtofen?

[redrider90]

That is PERFECTLY FINE & REASONABLE for you to have that opinion!

Where you go off track is characterizing guests as FREE-LOADERS. They are not. They are 100% in accordance with the hosts wishes. As guests of the hosts you have no right to disparage or alienate them.

It would be a nice gesture & in the spirit of the season if you could find it in your heart to extend an olive branch for your trespasses.

Randown,
 I guess under the recent "freeloader" standard you are a freeloader because you are not a board donor??  Hence your substandard status in the eyes of some  :+=copcar  +  :winer  ~; whose frowns  ::(  are quite evident. I myself, that is if I felt strongly about "freeloaders" would "ignore" them all and see how threads would read deleting all non-board donor "freeloaders".  ;D  :D  ;)
Heck I did not even notice there was a board donor icon until after belonging to the group for quite awhile. None the less I never look at the status of a poster to see if they are a donor except just now. It made me understand the donor part is totally voluntary and good for Rocker/LUAP for running a class act.
The group is far more diverse as a result as there a lot of lurkers just reading for fun and no doubt in the long run more people choose to donate as result.
Regardless of all this carping about freeloading I could care less. This is not about getting a free meal at a Guzzi rally when some jerk should have offered up his $5er.
This is a free list and I like WG all the more because of it.

[Lannis]

Randown,
 I guess under the recent "freeloader" standard you are a freeloader because you are not a board donor??  

No.  Only the guy who is "freeloading" knows if he is a "freeloader" or not.   

I can't tell you WHO they are.   Some contribute their time, or their computer expertise, or contribute in some other way we can't see.   

And even if they DON'T, Luap's and Rocker's rule is "They're welcome anyway".   That's good.  It's their board, and I like it.

But it doesn't change my OPINION, which can't be right, or wrong, or impugn anyone.   It's my expressed OPINION, and, as I express it,  it looks like to me there are a lot of guilty consciences around.    It's OK for other people to opine that it's perfectly fine to never contribute anything to something you're a part of, or using, or doing, and it's OK to have that opinion.

So if you know that you are not a freeloader, that's great.   I never said that anyone in particular is, so if they're suddenly worried that they're being accused of it, that's between them and their conscience.

Maybe another example will help (or maybe not).   You meet a guy who is down on his luck this week, he's "outdoors", nothing to eat, his job starts next week.    So you take him home and give him dinner and give him a room; he doesn't have the wherewithal to do it himself, so we call that "charity".   It's a great thing and we ought to do more of it.

So after a couple of weeks, he's got his first paycheck, he's got some money now.   He's still living in your house and you're riding him to work.   He's now a "Guest".   We all like having guests for a while, and you've got one.

Now it's six months later.  He's still living in your house, eating your food, driving your car, and your wife is washing his clothes.   He's got lots of money in his pocket now, but he hasn't helped out with groceries, gas, anything.    Just takes everything you give him, and gives nothing back; doesn't cut the grass, doesn't change the oil in the car, doesn't cook dinner.   He's just happy to be a part of this forum home because there are no dues, no commitments, and no oily demands for money or anything.

He's not someone you're helping, he's no longer a guest.   He's a freeloader.   I don't know who they are here on WG.    And it doesn't matter, because it's not my forum.   But my opinion doesn't change because of that.

Lannis

[oldmxdog61u]

Traditional clubs are dinosaurs. Change is needed. What change? I'm not the right demographic as my generation is becoming extinct.  I would like to hear from the younger folks what they are looking for. If I can help pass the torch of enthusiasm I would be happy.

[Randown]

He wasn't an Admiral he was a Baron & his name was spelled Richtofen, get your history right!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_G._Rickover

[begin WWLD dream sequence]

Thank you for the link Rocker but I hear that site is full of facts & I have ALREADY made up my mind on this.

Some of you may delight evolving your perceptions in light of facts but I find great consternation lies that way - my views were decided long ago with indoctrination, leanings & emotion.

If I opened that link by my own definition I would be a FREE-LOADER since they too ask for donations. I prefer to do my internet FREE-LOADING in private if you know what I mean, thank you!

[end of WWLD dream sequence]

[rodekyll]

Lannis -- There are matters of fact and matters of opinion.  That this board is free is a matter of fact.  To continue repeating the opinion in the face of the facts is to repeat a lie.  You keep on with the jiminy cricket thing -- throwing out the vague, nonspecific innuendo and then "let your conscience be your guide."  What does your conscience say about lying?

Luap's welcome says there are four rules, none of which are to give him money.  He doesn't say "I really want your money, but if you refuse, you're welcome here anyway".  He says "You're welcome here."  

Your examples of freeloading have no relevance to the WG model.  WG is not a rally with attendance fees.  It's not a potluck where the expectation is to bring a salad.  It's not a $5 dinner.  There is no cover charge -- It's a free campfire.  Folks who pull in can contribute money if they want to, but they can also contribute by participating, by helping out another member, or by just adding their number to the role and lurking.  How can WG grow if the self-appointed fee gestapo is enforcing nonexistent requirements?  Who would want to belong to a site that belittles and shames them for not complying with an imaginary rule?

There was a guy a while back who felt that the accepted standards of contribution and loyalty were unacceptable to him.  In his opinion the membership needed to be held to a higher standard.  So he invented new criteria and forced his opinion on the membership -- loyalty oaths needed to be signed, blacklists and lower classes of members emerged, all based on his opinion.  People were punished for crossing his opinion even though they were following the published rules.  Members became suspicious of who might be undermining their membership by reporting their opinion-defying activities and beliefs.  Participation fell as regular voices became silent and the normally quiet became absent.  I don't think the USA ever recovered from the McCarthy era.  Let's not let history repeat itself here.

[Randown]

Maybe your thinking of Manfred Von Richtofen?

Old dudes can be pretty facetious at times, stick around a while. And thanks for your offer to help.

[Lannis]

Old dudes can be pretty facetious at times, stick around a while. And thanks for your offer to help.

Sometimes we forget that we know each other's game to a nicety, and that sometimes the exchanges won't make too much sense to someone who hasn't seen it run a few cycles ... !   ;-T

Lannis

[rocker59]

If ever there was a waste of bandwidth, I think this thread is it.

[Dean Rose]

If ever there was a waste of bandwidth, I think this thread is it.

 :+1

Dean

[redge]

If ever there was a waste of bandwidth, I think this thread is it.

I think that it had a lot of potential until someone decided to demonstrate that he doesn't understand the Internet by trying to turn it into a discussion about alleged "freeloaders".

Have a look at the Moto Guzzi websites and social media platforms (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram,  YouTube, etc).

Now look at the Moto Guzzi National Owners' website, and this forum's website, and the two sites' associated social media platforms (oh, there aren't any).

Consider the rather dramatic disconnect between Moto Guzzi's internet presence and the really tired, dated (circa mid-90s) internet presence of the owners' group site and this site. Indeed, if one looks at the "history" section of the owners' group site, it's clear that it was last updated 15 years ago.

Are the younger people who Moto Guzzi is targeting and who are apparently buying the V7s that are keeping the company afloat here? Doesn't look like it. The why is pretty obvious.

[dilligaf]

If ever there was a waste of bandwidth, I think this thread is it.

And we are up to seven pages and counting.  :BEER:
Matt