To MGNOC, or not to MGNOC, the threadfest

[Lannis]

There's however a 4th group -- the FW personality cult, who get combative if anything other than glowing eulagies of FW are given, or if folks disagree with what they imagine FW and his 'club' might be.  This group can be identified by their baseless, unverifiable insistence that FW is the yahweh of north american guzzi, and that we should either drink his kool-aid without question or turn in our titles.

Really?  And you see evidence of this group innnn ... the Aurora?   The Misty Mountains?  The Hills of Hyperbole?

Anyway, that sort of makes my point.   You're right, no use fighting that dog any more ...

[oldbike54]

 Craig , that is troubling . Maybe they should have listed the event here , the folks that run WG seem to not mind letting us promote camp outs .

  Dusty

[rodekyll]

Really?  And you see evidence of this group innnn ... the Aurora?   The Misty Mountains?  The Hills of Hyperbole?

Anyway, that sort of makes my point.   You're right, no use fighting that dog any more ...

I saw it as a published comment by a WGNOC member here on this very site who flat out told me in a rather abusive way that if I didn't join the mgnoc and pay my dues because I owe Frank, without whom there would be no guzzis in the usa, then I should sell the bike and buy something else.  You were involved in that deleted topic.  You should remember it.  I compared his position to some SOA enforcer telling me I can't ride a harley unless I pay his club 'protection'.  The guy quit WG over it.

So you think this proves that there is a
"core of people [who] seem genuinely hostile toward the MGNOC, toward Frank Wedge, indeed toward the very IDEA of a MGNOC.   There is almost virtual spit flying out of their mouths as they damn it up street and down alley for a time-wasting, money-wasting, irrelevant scam, and they want it to go away, and they don't want anyone to belong to it"? 
Where is this virolent group?  They're not here.  Every objection a commenter has had in this topic has been specific and backed up.  Until you grabbed the thesarus, everyone was being reasoned and coherent -- nothing hateful or spittle-mouthed about it.

On the other hand, my 4th and 5th groups are here and active.  So how about we delete your imaginary third one and move these others up a notch?

[davedel44]

In the immortal words of Rodney King "Why can we all get along?"  I am heartily welcomed by members and nonmembers at officially sanctioned rallys and non official NARS.  I just want to ride and I want to ride Guzzis.  Like any organization join if you like or don't join.  :beat_horse  Predicting good weather here today, think I'll  take a ride through the Misty Mountains up the Hill of Hyperbole.  ;D

[oldbike54]

In the immortal words of Rodney King "Why can we all get along?"  I am heartily welcomed by members and nonmembers at officially sanctioned rallys and non official NARS.  I just want to ride and I want to ride Guzzis.  Like any organization join if you like or don't join.  :beat_horse  Predicting good weather here today, think I'll  take a ride through the Misty Mountains up the Hill of Hyperbole.  ;D

 To the Plains of Peace and Plenty . Located just Northwest of the Bolivar Peninsula

 Dusty

 


Sent from a submarine in Oklahoma .

[HDGoose]

It was a hassle for me too, signing back up every year, so I signed up for a Life Membership.   No more hassle!!

Lannis

yup.

[youcanrunnaked]

Here is another example of why I think that the MGNOC is much less than it pretends to be (or maybe just less than what it used to be), and how this misleads people:

One of my Guzzi friends on Facebook, Reima Saarinen of Finland, recently joined the MGNOC and posted a photo of his "membership kit" on the MGNOC's Facebook page -- a membership card and a sticker, plus the envelope that they came in. (The content is a little bit less than what I got when I joined the ABC Super Saturday Club when I was 8 years old.)  Aside form the expected comments -- "I want to join;"  "How do I join?" "I joined but never got those, and I can't sign on to the web site(!?)" -- was this gem:

Jimmy Connors: I think it's time we evolved into the MGIOC..... becoming International.. I think the time has come. What say you fellows?

Jimmy Connors: The name change alone would be good enough... but it might encourage those outside the US to form various more local groups... would it be a more welcome gesture? Those outside the US should voice their opinions. Thanks.

Jimmy Connors: The US founders and directors should also say something about this?


Bwhahahaha!  Oh, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy....  You obviously have no idea what kind of "organization" the MGNOC is.  First and foremost, there is no "we."  Second, based on prior examples and incidents, the organization is probably never going to "evolve."  Third, "voic[ing]... opinions" will probably have no effect on how the MGNOC is run.  Finally, there are no "founders" or "directors" (plural); there is, has been, and always will be one guy calling the shots -- Frank Wedge.  He treats the MGNOC like it is his personal property, because... well, because it is.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/328264358708/?fref=nf

[blackcat]

 :beat_horse

Give it up.

I don't begrudge Frank in the least bit. It's his business and if there was a bigger pie to cut there would be another organization in the USA but I'm not thinking that is going to happen too soon.

Frank seems like a nice guy, met him once;he helped me get my CX on the center stand. Chuck quote,"shrug"

[bad Chad]

Funny how this works.  You think Frank is a nice guy because he helped you put your bike on the center stand once.

Chuck has a bad run in with him, where he treats chuck poorly, but Lannis says that's no reason for Chuck not to think Frank is a wonderful human being. ???

[Lannis]

Chuck has a bad run in with him, where he treats chuck poorly, but Lannis says that's no reason for Chuck not to think Frank is a wonderful human being. ???

Is that what I said?   Damn, where's the "you changed my words around" critics when you need them so bad?   Looks like it's OK sometimes, not OK others.   

What's that on the inside of my computer screen?   Looks wet ....

Lannis

[dilligaf]

 ::)  :pop  :BEER:
Matt

[blackcat]

You think Frank is a nice guy because he helped you put your bike on the center stand once.

Brad, If you or Chuck helped me put the CX on the center stand I'd think you were a nice guy too.  ;)

PS. And if Frank did to me what he did to Chuck, I wouldn't think that Frank was a nice guy.  8)

[nunzio]

What was the question again?   ;D

[youcanrunnaked]

:beat_horse

I don't begrudge Frank in the least bit...

For someone who thinks the discussion is played out, you seem oblivious to my point.

I do not "begrudge" Frank the MGNOC, any more than I begrudge you any of your personal possessions.  

My point is, from the perspective of its members and the benefits of membership, as well as the image of the organization and the marque that it serves, I believe it is less than an ideal situation for a national owner's "club" to belong to any one individual as a for-profit entity.  

The basis of my belief is two-fold:
(1) It is antithetical to the nature of a voluntary association for it to be organized and run by one owner as a for-profit entity; and
(2) It is potentially misleading for an entity to solicit money from potential members and receive money from members as a "club," where the normal connotation of that word is that the organization exists as a not-for-profit entity, run by members elected by the general membership, and where those in charge are directly answerable to the members, when such is not the case.

Also, note that nowhere do my concerns reflect whether Frank's is a "good guy" or a "bad guy."  I don't know the guy, so I truly have no opinion on that subject.  

[blackcat]

For someone who thinks the discussion is played out, you seem oblivious to my point.

I do not "begrudge" Frank the MGNOC, any more than I begrudge you any of your personal possessions.  

My point is, from the perspective of its members and the benefits of membership, as well as the image of the organization and the marque that it serves, I believe it is less than an ideal situation for a national owner's "club" to belong to any one individual as a for-profit entity.  

The basis of my belief is two-fold:
(1) It is antithetical to the nature of a voluntary association for it to be organized and run by one owner as a for-profit entity; and
(2) It is potentially misleading for an entity to solicit money from potential members and receive money from members as a "club," where the normal connotation of that word is that the organization exists as a not-for-profit entity, run by members elected by the general membership, and where those in charge are directly answerable to the members, when such is not the case.

Also, note that nowhere do my concerns reflect whether Frank's is a "good guy" or a "bad guy."  I don't know the guy, so I truly have no opinion on that subject.  

Jeez, You don't seem to understand what is going on here. Frank started this business 30+ years ago when no one gave a flying F about the brand. His business, he makes money from it. So what?  If you think you want to beat Frank out of his business why don't you just start another organization and drive him into the ground with your blazing vision? Like I said above, there are probably not enough people around to move on to your organization but if you want to spend your time and your money to get it off the ground then have at it.

I haven't looked at MGNOC since I dropped the membership years ago but I don't remember anything in the fine print that said it was a Not For Profit organization. 


Once again, this is a  :beat_horse but please, continue to beat it if you must.  ::)

[youcanrunnaked]

Jeez, You don't seem to understand what is going on here. Frank started this business 30+ years ago when no one gave a flying F about the brand. His business, he makes money from it. So what?  If you think you want to beat Frank out of his business why don't you just start another organization and drive him into the ground with your blazing vision? Like I said above, there are probably not enough people around to move on to your organization but if you want to spend your time and your money to get it off the ground then have at it.

I haven't looked at MGNOC since I dropped the membership years ago but I don't remember anything in the fine print that said it was a Not For Profit organization.  

Once again, this is a  :beat_horse but please, continue to beat it if you must.  ::)

Do you understand "what is going on here?"  I don't think so, otherwise you would recognize that Frank starting "this business 30+ years ago... " is irrelevant to the issues that I raised.  If people want to send Frank their money in recognition of his past service, that's an honorarium, not a fee for "club" membership.  What Frank did with his "club" thirty years ago is not a rational basis for membership in a marque club TODAY, or a reflection of the value of such membership TODAY, or an answer to, or justification for, the flaws in "this business."

It's also not about whether Frank "makes money" from "this business."  While I believe that an entity such as the MGNOC should be organized as a not-for-profit corporation, I make this assertion based on the legal requirements that a not-for profit corporation has to follow concerning self-governance, operational formalities, record-keeping, reporting, and transparency, all of which are designed to benefit the membership of such an organization, and none of which apply to a for-profit sole proprietorship or close corporation.  It appears that you have made the common mistake of confusing not-for-profit with "not profitable."

I have no interest in "beat[ing] Frank out of his business."  What I would like to see is the MGNOC evolve into a not-for-profit corporation, for the benefits that this would bring to the membership, potential new and returning members, and the marque, including the ability of the "club" to carry on after Frank is no longer able to continue.  I don't think that a competing organization, and the internecine warfare that might result, is the answer.  I do not know if such an evolution of the club is possible, but I'd still like to see it happen.

Finally, I never said that Frank was actively misrepresenting the MGNOC as a not-for-profit corporation.  What I am concerned about is that it is all too easy for people joining the MGNOC to make that false assumption, given that the business has the words "owner's club" in its name.  My concern is based on the fact that an "owner's club" implies a voluntary association, organized as a not-for-profit corporation, owned and controlled by its members.  One need only look at the Facebook comments that I copied in my prior post to see that this concern is real.

Stop beating that poor horse and THINK.    

[Lannis]

::)  :pop  :BEER:
Matt

 :pop   :pop   :bow  ;-T

[oldbike54]

 Geez , Luap may have to ban discussion of Frank and MGNOC for the same reason religous topics are banned  :o ;)

  Dusty

[blackcat]

Do you understand "what is going on here?"  I don't think so, otherwise you would recognize that Frank starting "this business 30+ years ago... " is irrelevant to the issues that I raised.  If people want to send Frank their money in recognition of his past service, that's an honorarium, not a fee for "club" membership.  What Frank did with his "club" thirty years ago is not a rational basis for membership in a marque club TODAY, or a reflection of the value of such membership TODAY, or an answer to, or justification for, the flaws in "this business."

It's also not about whether Frank "makes money" from "this business."  While I believe that an entity such as the MGNOC should be organized as a not-for-profit corporation, I make this assertion based on the legal requirements that a not-for profit corporation has to follow concerning self-governance, operational formalities, record-keeping, reporting, and transparency, all of which are designed to benefit the membership of such an organization, and none of which apply to a for-profit sole proprietorship or close corporation.  It appears that you have made the common mistake of confusing not-for-profit with "not profitable."

I have no interest in "beat[ing] Frank out of his business."  What I would like to see is the MGNOC evolve into a not-for-profit corporation, for the benefits that this would bring to the membership, potential new and returning members, and the marque, including the ability of the "club" to carry on after Frank is no longer able to continue.  I don't think that a competing organization, and the internecine warfare that might result, is the answer.  I do not know if such an evolution of the club is possible, but I'd still like to see it happen.

Finally, I never said that Frank was actively misrepresenting the MGNOC as a not-for-profit corporation.  What I am concerned about is that it is all too easy for people joining the MGNOC to make that false assumption, given that the business has the words "owner's club" in its name.  My concern is based on the fact that an "owner's club" implies a voluntary association, organized as a not-for-profit corporation, owned and controlled by its members.  One need only look at the Facebook comments that I copied in my prior post to see that this concern is real.

Stop beating that poor horse and THINK.    

I understand exactly what you are saying and I can't disagree with it and I can hardly wait for you to start your version of an Owner's Club. I won't join that one either but I will support your effort.

[youcanrunnaked]

I understand exactly what you are saying and I can't disagree with it and I can hardly wait for you to start your version of an Owner's Club. I won't join that one either but I will support your effort.

LOL.  I am reminded of this:

[Nick]

Geez , Luap may have to ban discussion of Frank and MGNOC for the same reason religous topics are banned  :o ;)

  Dusty

Hey Dusty,

How's the weather in Okie land??? We're getting more snow tomorrow up here...
....and by the way I agree with you  ;-T I just did a search on this same subject and found the same BS in every thread/post. The same people pro and con, and at this point I much prefer another oil thread.....

Have a great weekend!

Nick

[oldbike54]

Hey Dusty,

How's the weather in Okie land??? We're getting more snow tomorrow up here...
....and by the way I agree with you  ;-T I just did a search on this same subject and found the same BS in every thread/post. The same people pro and con, and at this point I much prefer another oil thread.....

Have a great weekend!

Nick

 Hello Nick , 50 degrees and rainy here . how bout them ... uh , flat track racers  ;D

 Dusty

[blackcat]

LOL.  I am reminded of this:

I was thinking of Groucho when I wrote that line.  ;D

[Guzzistajohn]

The epitome of :beat_horse ;D

[Guzzistajohn]

Tazio and I feel kinda sorry for the horse  ;D Hey John , where do you stand on the red/blue controversy ? :D

  Dusty

I'm cool with BOTH red AND blue as long as it's in Buddy Guy style polka dots!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o5rJ5PetgY

[Ambogal]

I've been a member since 1972 and I renewed my membership in December.  It was very difficult to send in that check.  I really
don't get anything out of the club anymore.  I miss the printed version of the newsletter.  Haven't read the on line version in
probably 10 months.   Yes I know I can print it out but I don't think I should have to.  Every other riding organization
I belong to gives me a paper version to read.  I thank  Frank for all he's done for the organization.  I think without him,
it would have taken many more years before we'd be experiencing the fellowship of riding Moto Guzzis.     

My point in responding to this thread is regarding the Help list.  It's only good if the people listed keep their data
updated.   I desperately needed help a few years ago riding back from the  NY rally.   I probably called at least
6 people in the immediate area.  No one answered the phone.  Later that year, I recalled my need of help to
a few people and their reply was "why didn't you call my cell number - I was out riding".   WELL....your cell
number was not listed.   PLEASE....if you're on the list, make sure it's got your current info.   

[Chuck in Indiana]

It took me several years of emails to get *on* the list. It is still probably on the list. Don't know. Haven't belonged since "the Incident".  ;D
I'd still do "whatever it takes" to help a Guzzisti in duress, whether I "belong" or not.. <shrug>

[LowRyter]

hey ... I will tell you that Chuck offered to weld the saddle bag rack on my EV.

Since I was trailering & not riding, it wasn't a big deal for me.  But KNOWING that it could be fixed eased my mind vs trying to find another rack. 

Heck, I'd return the favor and help him to hammer out that bad stud on the drone Guzzi if he needed it and I was there.  I'd bring a ball peen with me too.

[oldbike54]

 Wait John , are you saying Chuckie is a stud hisownbadself  :o :D

  Dusty

[LowRyter]

well all know that Chuck's a stud.