Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..

[John Ulrich]

First, you wash everything with Dawn to get old wax, etc off. Second, clay bar with Dawn/water. Third, mix the first coat's hardener in and apply that. Windows, and all. Doesn't matter if you get it on rubber or places you normally try to keep wax off. Forth, mix the second coat's hardener and apply. Same deal. No swirling motion on any of this stuff. Then apply the gloss enhancer. It'll take all afternoon to do a car.. ;D busting your buns. It gives a deep "wet" look.

Let's back up from the fine painting presentation for a second and talk Zaino application times.
You only need to mix your hardeners in if you want to do multiple coats in a day which Chuck is doing.    I'll clay bar once in the spring.  My bimonthly program is... using their AOI (All in One) with a dual action buffer (Flex is my favorite).....45 minutes max to do a minivan.  If I'm feeling anal ... I'll drop on a coat of Z2 or Z5....10 minutes max on a minivan.  Like Chuck said, your just spreading it on as thin as you can, no rubbing.   I'll use the Z-CS Clear Seal a month later between the AOI applications...... if I'm feeling quilty.   
Zaino is the longest lasting sealant (not wax) for the price.  There are some new "coatings" on the market.  I'm going to try one out on a set of wheels in the spring.  The price for half a shot glass worth is an eye opener but I'll be a guinea pig.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Here's a "gotcha". You have to have the brake lever inside bushing installed before installing the frame rails. All that careful aligning and loc tite all for naught. ;D

Looks a little better than it did..

Back on "the box". With any luck at all, it will look like a motorcycle again tomorrow.. ;D

[mwrenn]

Man!  Looking good!!!

[kevdog3019]

Very sharp Chuck. Colors look great. You doing the wheels?
K

[Chuck in Indiana]

Very sharp Chuck. Colors look great. You doing the wheels?
K

Nope, the wheels look good. I'll have to do the front rotors, though..
edit to add picture.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Like I've said before, if you want to get a project done, do something every day.  ;D A short day, today, but productive. The u joint boot looked ok, and re installed it with a small fight from the c clip. It realized I was serious at about the third try and gave up and fell into the groove. ;)

Might as well clean up the rear wheel while it's off. Super Clean and water gives a wet look...

This is the best spooge I've found for splines. There may be a better spline lube available, but you can be sure that the next time you go in, it will still be there. ;-T

So put that stuff on the transmission output shaft, in the u joint splines, and on the drive splines, and install the driveshaft.

Put the spacer that I said to not forget a few weeks ago.. ;) on the D side, slide the swing arm on, put some anti seize on the special bolts and.. uh oh.  :o I had noticed that the S side came out hard when taking it apart, and no matter how I fiddled with it, it wanted to cross thread. Not a good thing. On a big block, if these threads get boogered up, you lose the frame. :o Of course, they are steel and not as easy to do that. You *only* lose the swing arm on a small block, still....

So, I took it back apart, cleaned the threads, saw that without a tap that is probably not readily available.. "Houston..we have a problem."  ;) Fortunately, the threads go all the way through, so I ran the fastener in from the back side, cleaned, ran a stainless steel toothbrush in, turning it to follow the threads, cleaned, and let the bolt cold form the threads back to where they should be. Three times. After that, the pin started normally.  Dodged a bullet, there.  ;D

Might as well clean up the jam nuts. BTW, these shop towels come from the hospital. **Guzzi content** they are FREE.  ;D They are used in the surgical theater, and sent out to the laundry. After a few times, someone decides they are "used" and throws them away. Available in the hospital dumpster, if you know a nurse, etc. ;D If you can get past the thought that Eldo Jon's spleen has been laying on them, they are excellent shop rags.. lint free, and FREE. ;D

Purdy, ain't it?

The driveshaft coupler has a E ring in the middle with a plate that rests against it. The spring at the end of the driveshaft pushes against this to keep the coupler on the proper area of the drive box splines. On the other small block I worked on ( I said I'm an amateur Guzzi mech..) it was installed backwards, doing nothing.

 So spooge up everything, put the coupler on the drive box, angle the nose of it downward, and push it home. You may need to turn the drive box output a little to get all this to align.
Tighten the nuts finger tight.

The only way I've found to get the wheel on is to use the axle to align things, turn the wheel until the rubber and drive nibs line up, and push.

After that, you can remove the axle, grease it liberally, don't forget the dust cover, and drive it home with a rubber hammer. Torque the big nut "until you fart" according to VDG,  ;D or around 80 ft. lbs. Tighten the axle pinch bolt, *then* tighten the 4 acorn nuts that hold the drive box to the swing arm. This assures that everything is in proper alignment.
Be still, my beating heart...  ;D ;-T I love the Guzzi engineering solution. Very "pretty" to my eyes.

edit for errors of omission and commission.. twice  ;D

[balvenie]

  ditto "very pretty" and Exciting too ;D

[IceBlue]

So nice chuck ;-T
Great work - that little bugger was lucky to have you as its next owner.
You just extended her life another 30 years or more  ;-T
...and then her value will start ricing ;D

[JPL]

Lots of familiar stuff here, Chuck. The PO of my V50II used lawn tractor batteries. Among other things the acid ate the frame paint, stained the castings, leaked into the swing arm bearing and froze one of the jamb nuts to it's pin. I had to cut that nut off. Also had similar 'sketchy feeling' starting that pin in; cleaned up the threads pretty much how you did. ;-T


   

[JPL]

As you've found, the swing arm and lower frame rail interfere. Put a towel in there.  :) ;-T


 

[kevdog3019]

That thing looks too purdy to go back on the road.   ;-T 
Looks like you're enjoying semi-retirement.
-Kevin

[Chuck in Indiana]

That thing looks too purdy to go back on the road.   ;-T 
Looks like you're enjoying semi-retirement.
-Kevin

Thanks, but the pictures make it look better than it is. It *will* look better than when I started, though. And, yes, retirement is the best job I've ever had. ;-T

[growler]

I'm following this with great interest...
I've just recently picked up an '86 lario that's gonna need serious work and your excellently documented thread will be a great reference for me. I'll have a lot of tech questions once I've pulled the motor apart, but I won't clog up your thread with them right now, I'll start one of my own when the time comes. Keep up the great work, it's a pleasure to read.  ;-T

[Chuck in Indiana]

I'm following this with great interest...
I've just recently picked up an '86 lario that's gonna need serious work and your excellently documented thread will be a great reference for me. I'll have a lot of tech questions once I've pulled the motor apart, but I won't clog up your thread with them right now, I'll start one of my own when the time comes. Keep up the great work, it's a pleasure to read.  ;-T

Thanks for that, and welcome to WG.. We need more Lario nutters.  ;D I've mentioned before on this thread that when I first got a small block, I didn't find much of this kind of thing on the web, so if someone finds this thread, and it is of use to them, I'm happy.  ;-T

[Chuck in Indiana]

Time to start making it back into a motorcycle. Wheelbarrowed it back over the "propulsor unit" installed frame bolts (some new) with blue thread locker, and had something we can roll around again. Rolled the engine assembly cabinet back into the hanger and brought the lift back in. Backed the Lario on to that so we can eventually pull the front end off, and started putting pieces/parts back on.
No, I never even considered painting the frame.  ;D Beyond here lies madness.. ;D :BEER:
Notice that Guzzi hid a couple of ground wires behind the master cylinder.

Not noticing these would no doubt cause a guy some grief. Take a stainless steel toothbrush and brighten up the back of the master cylider mounts and the ground wire eyelets. Some new toothed washers and Vaseline are the order of the day. As an aside, a couple of drops of brake fluid landed on the swing arm during this operation and left their mark.  ::) If I were to do it over again, I'd probably spring the big bux and get a 2 part enamel to paint the drive train. Live and learn..

Continue putting parts back where you found them.. ;D


And we'll be ready to tackle the forks and brake rotors.

[Pizza Guzzi]

Luigi would be tearing his hair out if he saw these pics - you've used enough grease on one bike for an entire years production from the factory  ;D

Looking fantastic - I wish I had the ability to do what you're doing.

Glenn.

[RaananC]

Really enjoyed following the project. But, you have put so much effort in painting the engine and other parts so, why not repainting the frame and the wheels as well?

[Chuck in Indiana]

Really enjoyed following the project. But, you have put so much effort in painting the engine and other parts so, why not repainting the frame and the wheels as well?

The wheels actually look good, but there is no stopping when you do that sort of thing. I did paint the one frame rail that was nasty, probably should have painted both. <shrug> Painting the frame? Easier said than done. Now we're talking a complete strip and restoration, which this *isn't*.  ;D
Here's the scenario:
Since we have the wiring off of it, might as well put all new wiring on it.  Once you do that, all the body work needs painted, and well, the instruments refreshed, and oh, the hand controls are worn. Darn, this seat doesn't look good enough..and can't have these worn foot pegs. Boy! This thing is really looking good, now..  :drool Except for this exhaust.. need everything new there.  :wife: "The phone just rang, and you've maxed out your plastic.." This bike is too far gone to even consider a restoration, IMHO. It's going to be a rider.
Glad you're following along... ;D

[RaananC]

The wheels actually look good, but there is no stopping when you do that sort of thing. I did paint the one frame rail that was nasty, probably should have painted both. <shrug> Painting the frame? Easier said than done. Now we're talking a complete strip and restoration, which this *isn't*.  ;D
Here's the scenario:
Since we have the wiring off of it, might as well put all new wiring on it.  Once you do that, all the body work needs painted, and well, the instruments refreshed, and oh, the hand controls are worn. Darn, this seat doesn't look good enough..and can't have these worn foot pegs. Boy! This thing is really looking good, now..  :drool Except for this exhaust.. need everything new there.  :wife: "The phone just rang, and you've maxed out your plastic.." This bike is too far gone to even consider a restoration, IMHO. It's going to be a rider.
Glad you're following along... ;D

First, restoration doesn't mean it won't be a rider. Personally I don't like the idea or doing all that work and at the end putting the bike as a vase in the living room.
Second, I said it because you already disassembled it to pieces.

[Offcamber1]

I get what RaananC is saying, but I get Chuck's point as well.  Back 20 years or so I had a 69 Rocket III that I made the mistake of tearing apart down to the frame.  I got as far as the frame and tinwork being repainted (nice job btw) and then started adding up the cost to really do the restoration correctly.  Staggered by the price of completing the bike correctly, I traded it in boxes for a complete running Triumph T100.

I should have never taken the R III apart.  I still miss it.

[lucky phil]

Really enjoyed following the project. But, you have put so much effort in painting the engine and other parts so, why not repainting the frame and the wheels as well?

Because its a Lario and barely worth the cost of the engine paint and stripper. geez you'll be expecting him to use new oil in the engine as well I suppose.
Ciao

[Chuck in Indiana]

First, restoration doesn't mean it won't be a rider. Personally I don't like the idea or doing all that work and at the end putting the bike as a vase in the living room.
Second, I said it because you already disassembled it to pieces.

Because its a Lario and barely worth the cost of the engine paint and stripper. geez you'll be expecting him to use new oil in the engine as well I suppose.
Ciao

New oil??? Crazy talk.. ;)

From page one.. ;D
Quote from: Carlo DeSantis on November 27, 2012, 11:15:41 AM
I look forward to following your progress, Chuck.

History tells me you're going to crank out another winner!

Carlo

Thanks, Carlo, but this one is too far gone for a complete restoration. I'd have *way* more money in it than it would ever be worth, and after all.. I'm one of those cheap small block guys that Charlie mentioned.. Grin Grin I'm just trying to get it in good mechanical order and presentable.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Today is all about tools. There are times that you just have to have em. Why is it that when I pick up one any more it's 50 years old, or more?? :o  ;D

Here's another of about the same age..
I used to have a Yamaha street bike and a Bultaco dirt bike, and one of them (don't remember which) had seemingly pot metal screws. I got tired of rounding out the cross of Phillips head screws and spent the big bucks (for me, at that time) on this impact driver. It came with a couple of common and a couple of Phillips screwdrivers.

When Rosie need a new rear rotor, I milled this out of a 5/16" Allen wrench. Terrible picture, but it is .002" oversize on the hex so it gets a good bite on the screw head. Fits my antique impact driver.

Alrighty, let's fire up this booger. The hottest part of the flame is the point of the cone closest to the nozzle..

Thread locker melts somewhere between 300-425 Degrees, F. depending on which one is used, IIRC. Don't even consider trying to remove these button head screws without the proper tools. You *won't* get it done.  ;D You might think about where the heat is going. No need to burn the paint off of the wheels.

After 3 or 4 minutes, put the impact driver on it, hold torque on the driver as if you were trying to loosen the screw,  and give it a big smack with the copper hammer. You *do* have a copper hammer, don't you? One of the reasons I still have the original propane tank, is that I decided I wanted to build an airplane and rented an oxy acetylene rig. For years. And years. ;D What a racket. At any rate, I haven't used this little propane setup much since. It took me a half hour to get the first rotor off with it.. ;D

Decided to drag the welding rig over, put a small tip on it, and had some *serious* heat available. Don't try this at home, professional use only..you can seriously screw stuff up with a lot of heat..  ;D ;D Took the other side off faster than I can tell about it.
Oh, look. The Lario's second piece of bling. Motorcycle Superstore sent me a closeout flyer with free shipping. I was wanting to get some fork gaiters. Naturally, on closeout the black was sold out, but they had a gaudy red.  ;D Pretty close match *and* made in the USA. ;-T

Here's another place where only the proper tool will do. You can screw an Allen wrench here until the cows come home, and you won't get this cap screw out. Put an impact wrench on it and it just zips off.  ;-T

Now we can paint these nasty looking things.

edit for typo

[kevdog3019]

My rotors came right off both sides.  Call me lucky.  When you bolt them up they may not sit so straight.  Be prepared to adjust the buttons a bit til there is no rubbing on the pads.  
-Kevin

[Chuck in Indiana]

My rotors came right off both sides.  Call me lucky.  When you bolt them up they may not sit so straight.  Be prepared to adjust the buttons a bit til there is no rubbing on the pads.  
-Kevin

Ok, Lucky.  ;D I could have taken the head off those bolts with the impact driver without them budging. Maybe someone else had them off and didn't use any loc tite on reassembly? <shrug> Or Luigi forgot? ;) :BEER:
Adjust the buttons? <scratching head>

[Gregory Bender]

On my Suzuki dirt bike, I could not get enough heat into my button-head bolt heads with a propane torch (even after minutes of directed heat). So, I welded on some low-quality wrenches I had been needing throw away, anyway. I had plenty of heat penetration and leverage then: the bolts turned right out.

Of course, I could have welded nuts on top of the bolt heads, but I didn't want to waste any of my good supply of filthy used nuts sitting in an old coffee can! :> :> :> :>

I really need to invest in a torch or at least some MAPP gas. Some day...



Regards,

Gregory Bender

[kevdog3019]

Ok, Lucky.  ;D I could have taken the head off those bolts with the impact driver without them budging. Maybe someone else had them off and didn't use any loc tite on reassembly? <shrug> Or Luigi forgot? ;) :BEER:
Adjust the buttons? <scratching head>

Unless your rotors and mounting points are true (with regard to casting)<clearing throat>, you may find that things don't fit as they did. Turn your wheel after installation and see if there is any contact. If so, get creative with the buttons.
Kevin

[Chuck in Indiana]

On my Suzuki dirt bike, I could not get enough heat into my button-head bolt heads with a propane torch (even after minutes of directed heat). So, I welded on some low-quality wrenches I had been needing throw away, anyway. I had plenty of heat penetration and leverage then: the bolts turned right out.

Of course, I could have welded nuts on top of the bolt heads, but I didn't want to waste any of my good supply of filthy used nuts sitting in an old coffee can! :> :> :> :>

I really need to invest in a torch or at least some MAPP gas. Some day...



Regards,

Gregory Bender

Hi, Gregory! Yeah the second rotor wasn't wanting to come off easily. I put it down to my 50 year old bottle of propane running on empty. The torch warmed them up in a heartbeat. Most of the time, the proper tool makes easy work of it. Hey! I don't blame you for not wanting to ruin those valuable used nuts.. ;D

[Chuck in Indiana]

My rotors came right off both sides.  Call me lucky.  When you bolt them up they may not sit so straight.  Be prepared to adjust the buttons a bit til there is no rubbing on the pads. 
-Kevin

I've just gotta address this. I *don't* mean to offend you, but if you can change the way the rotors run out by different tension on the buttons something is wrong. Bear with me.
Both the wheel and rotor are machined on massive lathes. The idea being to make everything concentric and flat. Guzzi, and whoever makes the wheel and rotor, now have machining centers that are capable of completely machining the wheel in one operation.
In '87, that wasn't so, but that doesn't mean that the way they were made is any less accurate.
"Probably" here is how the rotor was machined. The rough casting is chucked up in a lathe, and the swept surface, Outside diameter, bore and chamfer is cut. Then, it is turned around, located on the machined surfaces, and the other swept surface and area where the bolts go in is cut.
Make sense? Everything is concentric and flat. You can see on this picture where the rotor and wheel surfaces meet. There are tolerances of course, but they are a very few thousandths of an inch.

When the wheel casting is machined, it is chucked up, and all the diameters will be cut, including where the rotor meets it. Then, it will be turned around, located on these machined surfaces and the other side cut. Again, the idea is flatness, parallelism, and concentricity. That way, when the rotor and wheel are mated, there won't be any run out, either axially or radially. This picture shows the mating surfaces. There are complicated gauges that check these sorts of things in production.

If you *can* change run out by changing torque on the bolts, either the wheel or rotor is machined improperly.. highly unlikely.. the rotor is warped.. possibly.. or there is a burr or piece of dirt, etc. under it on assembly.. most likely.
At any rate, it's your brakes.  :o If it were me, I'd be finding out why.  ;)

[lucky phil]

On my Suzuki dirt bike, I could not get enough heat into my button-head bolt heads with a propane torch (even after minutes of directed heat). So, I welded on some low-quality wrenches I had been needing throw away, anyway. I had plenty of heat penetration and leverage then: the bolts turned right out.

Of course, I could have welded nuts on top of the bolt heads, but I didn't want to waste any of my good supply of filthy used nuts sitting in an old coffee can! :> :> :> :>

I really need to invest in a torch or at least some MAPP gas. Some day...



Regards,

Gregory Bender

No need to throw those away. You can re-use the bolts and grind the wrenches off when installed. Could even save the "open end" part.
Chuck, in the name of good taste and decency please dont use those RED fork gators.....please.
Ciao