Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..

[Gregory Bender]

Thanks Chuck  ;-T - yes Gilardoni kits are available here for Lario's. My cylinder thoug is  750CC ntx barrel. those are close to 800$ here. A replating may be a good road to travel, if on doesn't pop up on eBay. I have a few grade B 8V 750cc pistons, so i like to hang on to my grade B 750cc cylinders.

Cheers

Here are a few services to investigate:
http://thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/moto_guzzi_loopframe_engine.htm#gtb_cylinder_plating_services

Hope this helps!

Regards,

Gregory Bender

[IceBlue]

Thanks Greg ;-T

[Chuck in Indiana]

Ok, here's the secret to assembling this stupid switch.  ;D We were going to Wisconsin to visit the kids and I threw the components in a plastic bag. Brad is 10X the mechanic I am, and I handed him the bag without telling him how I'd tried to assemble it. He originally tried like I did, that is by putting all the parts together at once. No joy. Finally, he snapped the t/s and light switch together as a sub assembly..

Then, dropped the horn button/spring assembly in the housing and it just snapped together.  ::) Easy peasey.

Sometimes, another pair of eyes is all it takes.
Oh, I was looking back through this thread, and the copper piece on the horn button in this picture needs to be turned over.

At any rate, There's no reason to be afraid to take these switches apart to clean them, now.

[gentlemanjim]

If it wasn't so informative this thread would be worth viewing for the clever and whitty prose.  Well done Chuck

[Chuck in Indiana]

If it wasn't so informative this thread would be worth viewing for the clever and whitty prose.  Well done Chuck

Thank you, sir.. ;D

[Chuck in Indiana]

In the spirit of doing something every day, I did a little bit. Spring is coming (believe it, or not)  ::) and I don't have much longer to finish this up if it's going to remain a "Winter" project. Finished up the left switch, hooked everything up, tried the right turn signal, and woo hoo!  ;D That's what we're talkin' about.

Now that I have a high and low beam, it's time to wire in another headlight relay. Grabbed my roll of (pennies on the dollar mil surplus)  ;D tefzel coated 14 gauge aircraft wire, and made some jumpers from the first relay. It's color coated.. white *is* a color, after all.  ;D

An automatic wire stripper makes short work of that job. Another of those tools that you wonder why you haven't had one forever..

Now, the headlight is at battery voltage..much brighter.. but more importantly the switchgear is only carrying the relay trigger load instead of the headlight load.
Still waiting on my parts order and looking for stuff to do...

[Chuck in Indiana]

I couldn't stand it. Remember the loose bolts on the rear drive? I've seen some other things that I didn't much care for on this scooter, and kept wondering if the DPO had been in there, too. Then, there was that picture of a blown up small block rear drive where a crown wheel bolt came loose a week or two ago. I just knew it would eat on me. What if Dorcia was riding with me, and the rear drive locked up? That might end her riding days...
So, I opened it up this morning. These are the updated crown wheel bolts, and they were torqued. No flat plates to remove.  ;-T The crown wheel and pinion look good.

Didn't even tear the paper gaskets taking it apart.  ;D

Just a reminder to not to forget these trapped nuts for the rear caliper when going back together.

Total cost? Two hours of waiting for Spring to get here. Peace of mind? Priceless..
Just goes to show you that if you live long enough, something will turn out right.

[Chuck in Indiana]

25% Free! How could a Guzzi guy pass that up?  ;D Actually, they turned out better than I expected and I never would have tried it without Gregory's recommendation..

El Cheapo Emgos. A friend sold them to me at cost just to try. They are a little heavy, though.  ;) ~; So I added 4 lightening holes on each. Sean Fader, Guzzi small block guru, told me that small blocks really like reverse cone megaphones, so if I like what they sound like after "lightening," I'll see about cutting out the tube that keeps these from being reverse coned. Just might try some more kinda shiny bbq grill paint on them, too.

[canuck750]

Very thorough and proffesional workmanship!!
I am learning a lot from your postings.


Cheers
Jim Carey

[lucky phil]

Chuck,once you introduce baffles into the equation then the shape of the muffler section becomes irrelavant.
For a reverse cone megaphone to deliver any performance gains it has to be without baffles.
Ciao

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck,once you introduce baffles into the equation then the shape of the muffler section becomes irrelavant.
For a reverse cone megaphone to deliver any performance gains it has to be without baffles.
Ciao

Thanks for that, Phil. That will keep me from wasting time on these. The "mufflers" that came with it were just that..a hollow core with a reverse cone welded on. As poorly as it was running, I couldn't tell the difference when I swapped them for the *much* quieter Emgos.

[s_ellinson]

I ran my V50 with Norton "Peashooters" for a long time. They seemed to make it much more peppy. They were straight through, with peripheral absorbtion material, and best of all they were about £70 for a pair, brand new. I'm not sure if the reverse cone or the straight through was the good bit, but they worked.

Stewart

[kevdog3019]

I found the straight-throughs on the Lario to get exceedingly tiring.  If you are going to try to get the most from it that's one thing, but if you like things a bit more peaceful, I suggest baffles.  You gain sound more than anything else, but you already know this.  I'm afraid I'm going to have one of each.   ::)
-Kevin

[Chuck in Indiana]

Finally got my parts this afternoon.  ;D The hold up was the neutral switch for the Mighty Scura that I wanted to take out to California next week. Mrs. Eish asked me, "Do you want the Guzzi $5.65 rotor bolts with loc tite already on them, or the $1 bolt that you have to put your own loc tite on?" Silly girl...  ;D Ran them in.

And torqued them.

I'd needed them so I could put the front end back together, along with the fork seals. The old seals weren't leaking, but I thought I just may as well replace them while I was at it. This is another tool that you just have to have if you're going to work on motorcycles. Don't need one on airplanes, so I had to buy  :o this one. Notice the different radii that you can eyeball to use the correct one.

Pick the wrong one, and it's possible to damage the seal area. Just sayin.. Just put it under the seal and pull. It'll pop right out. Nothin to it. As I've said before, the proper tool is more than half the job most of the time.

There are rings around the new seals to help eyeball them square. Push them in by hand, and then drive them flush with your ever present piece of flat plastic and copper hammer.  ;)
Lubricate them with some Dextron.

Since we are putting gaiters on it, some synthetic grease  ~; will help keep rust at bay..

There are drain holes in gaiters, put them in the back.

The slots in the back of the fork tubes line up with the drain screws in the fork legs.

Carefully slide the fork lowers on, no need of damaging the new seals, align the legs, install the bolts, and give them a shot with the rattle gun.

Now, we can put the wheel on and have a rolling chassis again.  ;D ;-T
Uh oh. The airplane mechanic in me saw a crack.. I certainly didn't expect one here..

Now, somebody that is good with a tig could repair that. I have a tig. I thought, what are *my* chances of repairing this with a tig? Select one.
(1) Slim
(2) None
A guy has to know his limitations.  ;D
So. Out comes the ox acetylene torch again. My probably 30 years old  ::) silver solder flux had dried out. Put some water in it and stirred it up.

Silver solder bonds by molecular attraction, so the surfaces have to be *clean*. Duct tape it up and off to the bead blast.

Liberal flux on it, dip the silver solder in the flux, get a neutral flame going with (probably) your smallest tip.
I set it on the vise, and put a v block that I don't care about on it for a heat sink.

Sorry, no time for pictures during this operation. Heat it to cherry, *keep the flame envelope on the work to prevent oxidation* and touch it with the silver solder. If all goes well, it will flow by capillary action, fill the crack, and end up on the back side.
I quit.

I'll let you know if it was good repair after a few thousand miles.. ;D
Put on the wheel, brake calipers (loc tite there, too) and torque everything down. It took considerably longer to tell about it then to do it. Probably that's why you don't see too much of this on the web. The pros really don't have time to do this. It's play for me..  ;)
100cc Dextron in each fork leg.

And it's a roller again.

Apologies to Lucky Phil. Black gaiters would have looked much better, but Closeout with FREE shipping? I couldn't pass it up.  ;D A certain down under guy I know would have seen the choices, fluorescent green, blue, yellow, and this color, and would have put a blue on one side and green on the other.  ;D 
 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Alrighty, let's finish it up.
Install the previously MIA clutch arm spring..

Make sure there's a little clearance so the throw out bearing isn't  under load all the time. Don't have a picture, but I'd pulled out the bearing and greased the rollers while everything was apart. It can be done now, of course, just by taking the arm off. Just harder to get at.

Pretty fancy for Guzzi.. the intake manifolds are marked.

There was some paint in the threads of this head, and this screw started getting tight after a couple of turns. The temptation is to just keep turning it in. Bad idea.  ;D A tap cleans is out..

On the other side, there was a lot of space between the manifold and head. Hmmm. Took it back off and there was still a gasket in it. The DPO had two of them on it. Wonder why? Leaking at one time? Carelesness?  ~; At any rate, it was really stuck in there, and painted in. Here's another tool that will save much frustration and time. It makes pulling cotter pins a breeze, and hooked the back edge of the old gasket and levered it out.

 
Installed the copper transmission breather line I made the other day.

Exhaust, and miscellaneous bits..

Not much left to do.

Unfortunately, the oil pressure sender has gone udders skyward during all this. <Sigh> Ordered one from Mrs. Eish, and she said, "Boy, Guzzi wants a lot for that switch, I think you could get it cheaper from MG Cycle."  ;D ;D I told her to just send it. After the 20% discount they give MGNOC members, it was only 3 or 4 dollars difference. At any rate, if I had half a brain I wouldn't do the initial start up without a functioning oil pressure sender..  ;) :BEER:
edit for yet another typo..
 

[Morizzi]

 A certain down under guy I know would have seen the choices, fluorescent green, blue, yellow, and this color, and would have put a blue on one side and green on the other.  ;D  
 

Actually Chuck there are a couple of us with colour preferences. I'm sure Pete would have gone for the 'shock' factor.

I'd have gone for the red and green combination for that 'nautical' touch.  :BEER: You could have also gone for the Italian ignition system (reverse nautical) and gone red on the right, green on the left to match the ignition trigger circuits.  :D

IME its quite common to find 2 gaskets for either the inlet or exhaust manifolds. Any poor running is often attributed to air leaks on the inlet side and popping on the over run to the exhaust. I'm not saying they were the reasons but they are often dealt with in the descending order of suspects, just in case.

Mrs Eish? Great to hear her name and know the business is still running in its time honoured manner. I had the privilege to deal with the Eish family when I was there a few years ago. I have a photo of Joe with his Guzzi servi car at the Ohio rally up in the panhandle, priceless.  ;-T

The spring, yes, for such a small inexpensive item it does such a good job. I have found generic springs that fit and suffice.

I usually remove the normal phillips head bolts for the vacuum gauges in the inlets and change them to cap screws. Down the track I just find the allen head gives me the purchase I may need if they decide to get a bit stubborn.

The speedo drive. There is just a wire circlip that holds the whole thing together on the back. Check out the teeth at that point. If the 'tang' was split then there is a good chance that the helical teeth are worn. You can change the contact point by placing a washer under the long drive pin. You may need to pull the brass part off the draw file it down to size t reduce friction. Grease it good before putting it back together. I'm not too sure I was clear in my description but I am more than confident that you will understand as soon as you undo the drive.

Looking good Chuck.

Cheers

Rod

[Chuck in Indiana]

Thanks, Rod. I try to buy from the local people.. Ohio and Wisconsin  ;D whenever possible. The Eish's have many unusual parts. For instance, a few cents got me the rubber tip for the kickstand deployment arm. Gordon and Cheeshead don't deal with that sort of stuff.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I've heeded the warnings about making sure to get a full 1 liter of 80-145 in the transmission, even though "the book" says 900cc, so I put it on the sidestand, and used this leftover container for a measure. 900cc, then 100cc. Let it drain for a while to make sure all was in. Just for sh!ts and giggles, I capped it, put it on the center stand, and pulled the plug. Sure enough, the oil level was right at the bottom of the level plug.  ;-T

A few pages back Ron was talking up Maguire's Ultimate compound, so since I'm a believer too, here's the before and after. It doesn't show as well in pictures as in real life. What it *does* show is how well the kid's mom matched the color.  ;-T I need to go to the paint store and give her props.

After

Putting more pieces on, and the Gaudy Gaiters aren't so Ghastly now.  ;D At least, to my eye..

Dummied up the new Lemon 4 windscreen, and I don't hate it as much as I thought. I was fully prepared to saw off the kickup.

Hmm, I like the view from the pilot's seat.

Time to set it on the floor, put the seat on it, and sit on it and make vroom vroom noises.  ;D
First picture of it on the floor with most of the stuff on it.. be still, my beating heart.  ;D I love the dated classic 80s Italian sport bike styling.. ;-T

Juan motime.

Decided to go ahead and mount the windshield. It's real fun to hold that bottom nut without breaking the windshield. The DPO had already done that on both the lower screws on the OEM one..

Uh oh.. the other 5 holes lined up ok.

Here's a trick I learned many years ago. I machine lots of plastic, and was looking for a drill bit to do deep holes. These 1 flute drills were designed to drill deep holes in brass, a grabby material, and I gave them a try. They worked..ok.. for what I was doing at the time, but just for grins I tried them in thin plexiglass. You know how if you try to drill plexiglass with a standard drill it will grab and crack it? Normally, you grind a negative rake on the drill bit and melt your way through, or use a soldering iron.
These 1 flute drills will drill through plexiglass with impunity, even when there's an interrupted cut like a partial hole.  :o  I've used them on (outrageously expensive where you *absolutely* don't want to screw up) aircraft windshields for years without a glitch. That's my very own discovery, patent pending.  ;)

Of course, the fairing material isn't as fragile, but still....

That's my Tool Tip for the Day.  ;D
Windshield done.
Not much left to do. I scrounged a pretty beat up chin fairing off Ebay.. Cheap.. ;D and will take a look at mounting it tomorrow.

[Mark West]

I found the fairing to work amazingly well on my LMIV. Very easy to ride at high speeds.

[s_ellinson]

It's all looking very good. A word of warning on the speedo drive boxes (I'm sure you know this already though) they're flimsy little things and the tang often breaks because they lose all their lubrication and get stiff - there should be a grease point on the top, but failing that they can be stripped carfully and packed with lubricant. The teeth have been known to strip if the get too stiff, but the drive tang usually fails first!..

Stewart

[Chuck in Indiana]

I found the fairing to work amazingly well on my LMIV. Very easy to ride at high speeds.

Agreed. I was surprised at how well the fairing and short windscreen worked for me. I'll ride it with this extended windscreen and see what it is like.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Well, the oil pressure sender is supposed to arrive today, so the plan was to do the break in and take her for a ride. Looking out the window this morning..

[Pizza Guzzi]

That bike is a credit to you sir and I admit that I have never heard of a 1 flute drill - thank you for enlightening me !

Glenn.

[kevdog3019]

It is my understanding that the tranny fill/check plug is lower on earlier bikes and moved up on later bikes. I believe this is stated in Guzziology. Just saying its important to know if you check fluid levels via the hole.

I like the shine factor of that Maguires. Will look into that.

Report back about that screen. I had the MRI on my V11 Lemans that swept up like that. Found the stock screen to run much smoother air. Wondering if this will be the case with yours. Air is not the problem. Turbulent air is.

I had my oil sender go belly up also. Seems they don't last forever.

I don't have a tang on my speed from PO. Made up something on my own. Works fine.

Great job and hope start-up happens soon.

Kevin

[Chuck in Indiana]

It is my understanding that the tranny fill/check plug is lower on earlier bikes and moved up on later bikes. I believe this is stated in Guzziology. Just saying its important to know if you check fluid levels via the hole.

I like the shine factor of that Maguires. Will look into that.

Report back about that screen. I had the MRI on my V11 Lemans that swept up like that. Found the stock screen to run much smoother air. Wondering if this will be the case with yours. Air is not the problem. Turbulent air is.

I had my oil sender go belly up also. Seems they don't last forever.

I don't have a tang on my speed from PO. Made up something on my own. Works fine.

Great job and hope start-up happens soon.

Kevin

Yeah, I liked the short screen because of my helmet being in smooth air. The jury is out on the extended one, but I'll report back. I *think* I got a good repair with the silver brazing.. we'll see.  First startup will probably delayed while we go to California and visit the Scura, roar around in the canyons, and hang out with SoCal Guzzi hooligans grandkids.  ;D :BEER:

[canuck750]

Looking great Chuck, you have worked wonders on this bike!

Cheers
Jim

[Chuck in Indiana]

Looking great Chuck, you have worked wonders on this bike!

Cheers
Jim

Thanks, Jim. It *does* look better than it did, but wouldn't have taken much.. ;D

[jdgretz]

Give a shout when you get out here, Chuck.

jdg

[Chuck in Indiana]

Ran into a snag when I started to install the chin fairing. The mounts came with the bike, but were bent up. I straightened them and installed them the way they were when I put the frame on the engine. Giving it a good look, the D side goes on the outside of the frame... so, off with the exhaust, support the engine, tap the bolt back, put the mount on the other side of the frame.

Install the fairing, and put the exhaust back on.
Unfortunately, now it'll be necessary to *pull the freakin exhaust to remove the chin fairing to change the oil filter.*  ::) No, using a hex bolt won't help. There's not enough clearance between the header and fairing to get a bolt of any kind in there. See Norge, 07, checking the oil, for service accessibility problems, just another in a long tradition..  ;D

Well, I'm going to run it anyway. I think it *could* help cool the oil a little. I can see why you don't see many chin fairings in service, though. What a PITA..

That said, it took less than an hour to do the whole deal and take pictures.
I'm seriously running out of things to do, now. One other thing. The front fender mount is just that. They use a rubber bushing, and the nicely made stamped with stiffeners steel mount does nothing for fork stiffness. I would think that making delrin bushings *might* stiffen up the front end. A little. <shrug> I don't have any black delrin, but maybe Ed the Rocket Scientist does..down at the other shop. Back later.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Give a shout when you get out here, Chuck.

jdg

I'll do that. Rock Store Friday for lunch?