The New Indian Chief Thunder Stroke 111 merged threadfest

[rocker59]

Standing at the finish line of a drag strip, a half-second or a second are huge distances. At 90mph a second is 117 feet, if I'm not mistaken.

However, in the real world of riding, these behemouths aren't drag racing.  Mid-range roll-on performance is what's important.

Weight and gearing have a huge impact on how a bike feels.  A half second on a theoretical quarter mile doesn't really mean jack.

I doubt there's much "real world" performance difference between a Chieftain and a Road Glide.  Or, between a Chief Vintage and a Road King Classic.

[Kev m]

Standing at the finish line of a drag strip, a half-second or a second are huge distances. At 90mph a second is 117 feet, if I'm not mistaken.

However, in the real world of riding, these behemouths aren't drag racing.  Mid-range roll-on performance is what's important.

Weight and gearing have a huge impact on how a bike feels.  A half second on a theoretical quarter mile doesn't really mean jack.

I doubt there's much "real world" performance difference between a Chieftain and a Road Glide.  Or, between a Chief Vintage and a Road King Classic.

BINGO... not to mention IF one does drag race these behemoths then state of tune and rider come into play too.

[oldbike54]

A 650 Burgman will run an honest 115 MPH and carry a bag of groceries under the seat . My HD selling nephew works with a guy who has one , he outran several Harleys belonging to co workers in block to block match races . Just a point of reference . Pro Stock scooters anyone ? A good Pushrod Trident would run high 12 second quarter miles , and they were antiques when new .
Dusty

[Kev m]

A 650 Burgman will run an honest 115 MPH and carry a bag of groceries under the seat.

Funny you should mention it.

Looking into these bikes lately I got interested in capabilities - specifically bags.

I prefer the Custom to the Touring, and I don't really like the Touring bags so I'd be looking to go aftermarket - but that currently limits me to the HB C-Bow bags, and the only one I kinda care for is the Stryker. But it is only 23L.

I thought about perhaps putting bags on a Fat Bob for a smaller chassis (100 lbs less than an RK, and almost 50 lbs less than a Cali 1400 Touring), but it looks like I'd have to go with either Leather Covered Rigid bags from Harley that I THINK are listed at 19.5L or LeatherLyke bags which are (yes, you guessed it) 23L (actually 23.6L).

I don't have dimensions on the Indian bags yet, but they seem of decent size.

Harley lists the FLH bags as a total of 2.3 cu. ft. - meaning 65L total or 32.5L per side.

So the great irony is that - MY V7 with 30L HBs has more carrying capacity than the Cali 1400 Custom w/ those HBs or the Fat Bob with accessory bags, and only 2.5L less per side than the RK.

Of course my V7 ALSO has an HB topcase rack, so it has MORE CARRYING CAPACITY than any of these bikes if you don't add a topcase.  :BEER:


Ah, I see the OEM fiberglass or OEM Leather covered fiberglass bags for the Cali are 35L - so they are bigger than the RK's by 2.5L per side.... not bad, though as Pete has noted the shape isn't the best.

[rocker59]

Burgmans and Tridents don't weigh 800 lbs.

My Sport 1100 will out run all these touring cruisers, too.

Doesn't really matter, though.

[oldbike54]

Burgmans and Tridents don't weigh 800 lbs.

My Sport 1100 will out run all these touring cruisers, too.

Doesn't really matter, though.

True , they don't weigh 800lbs , but they have much smaller displacement also . My point is , we are getting worked up over antiquated performance figures , if one wants power and speed , buy a Rocket 3 , of course a good size inheritance will be needed to keep tires on it .
Dusty

[Kev m]

True , they don't weigh 800lbs , but they have much smaller displacement also . My point is , we are getting worked up over antiquated performance figures , if one wants power and speed , buy a Rocket 3 , of course a good size inheritance will be needed to keep tires on it .
Dusty

Now you're just trolling with the term "antiquated performance specs".

There's nothing "antiquated" about doing the job the bike is intended to do, and only offering a similar amount of get-up-and-go as most of the market.

Comparing the relative power/speed of touring bikes to each other is fine.

Comparing them to other segments doesn't really make a lot of sense, other than to note the relative differences in the market segments.

[rocker59]

if one wants power and speed , buy a Rocket 3 ,  Dusty

11.99 sec. @ 111.00mph is slow in the motorcycle world.  

If I was drag racing, I surely wouldn't pick Triumph's big pig for the job.

[Kev m]

11.99 sec. @ 111.00mph is slow in the motorcycle world. 

There is really a lot to like about the RIII.

It feel pretty nimble for its size, and obviously has power to spare.

But it still wouldn't be my choice because of a couple of things - not the least of which is that it is a larger engine than my car, I really don't want/need that. Not to mention the same trouble the T-bird has in my eyes - it's LC, and I just don't want that.

Still I totally get why people would like em.

[Kev m]

No trolling here , and I understand the different market segments , but what is baffling to me is why does everyone get all worked up over 800lb cruiser bikes that need car size engines to achieve "antiquated" performance figures

You KNOW you're getting my dander up now right?  >:(

Define Performance?

The most important metric to me in a motorcycle is how a bike accomplishes the tasks to which it is going to be used.

As we already said, touring bikes aren't really meant to be racing (drag or road race) and therefore how fast it makes it to 60 or 100 or how well it might perform in a slalom test aren't really good yard sticks.

And if you call their "performance" antiquated based on the fact that they do not accomplish THOSE specific tasks as well as any bike that doesn't perform a TOURING BIKE'S SPECIFIC tasks as well, then you're being myopic in that you are looking at only one tangentially related ability to the primary purpose of the bike.

I would say these bikes DEFINE MODERN TOUR BIKE PERFORMANCE - as they offer heretofore unparalleled comfort, convenience, capabilities, safety etc. All things most relevant to their primary purpose.

That some might chose a Norge 8V for touring over them and have much more capability in the twisties or on a drag strip doesn't change that. And the great irony is that you could just as equally make the same misguided comment of "Antiquated Performance" of a Norge 8V based again on bikes that just aren't relevant to its primary purpose and it would be just as silly.

[youcanrunnaked]

It's simple, really. Within the design and esthetic preferences of cruiser riders, the incorporation of modern engine attributes leading to improved performance and reliability is an interesting technological development..

Just as in the automotive world, where not everybody drives a sports car, for consumers who like, say, pickup trucks, a new truck that offers better engine performance is of interest to the target audience, even if it may bore you.


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[oldbike54]

So you mean like the now discontinued 1800 VTX ? Look , never said these things bored me , kind of neutral about them really . But the reality is that most people who buy these things will not be interested in how fast they are .
Dusty

[Kev m]

But the reality is that most people who buy these things will not be interested in how fast they are .
Dusty

That contradicts what you said earlier...

The reality is those of us who buy these only care how fast they are relative to one another.  ;)

[Andrew Thomas Evans]

Saw one of the Chieftains last weekend, what a good looking bike! It'd be fun to ride one, and if the money is there, would be fun to buy one!

[LowRyter]

Geez , I never said they have no right to exist , I merely said all of the excitement baffles me . Someone's choice in MCs is a personal matter , and many choose oversized over engined barges , fine by me . Once again , just do not understand the excitement .
Dusty

we're gettin' nowhere fast my friend......   :beat_horse

[rocker59]

Geez , I never said they have no right to exist , I merely said all of the excitement baffles me . Someone's choice in MCs is a personal matter , and many choose oversized over engined barges , fine by me . Once again , just do not understand the excitement .
Dusty

My Suburban does not handle as well as my Miata, nor return nearly the fuel economy.

My Miata does not tow 8400 lbs and carry six passengers and thier gear.

They both do thier jobs admirably.

[rboe]

So what oil do you recommend to get good quarter mile times out of your land barge?   ~;




 :pop

[rboe]

All these speed numbers are fine and dandy for bragging over beers and such after riding all day. But unlike sport bikes, these guys are designed to eat up miles of slab in comfort and safety. That is where the real comparisons will hold weight with the owners.

Still, a good ol' pissing contest in bar can be fun; just to have a pissing contest.

I'd really like to prefer the 1400 Cali, but the ergo's tell me the Indian is probably a better choice. The wallet says get a used Vulcan.

 :winer  (just noticed this graemlin, gotta use it!)

[rocker59]

  Isn't it you who stated that lighter bikes are more fun . 
Dusty

Yes.  My enjoyment level goes down quickly as the weight passes 500 lbs. 

For me, the perfect bike has two cylinders.  Is between 450 and 500 lbs.  Has between 80 and 100 bhp.  And, has the ability to accept Givi or H+B luggage.  I don't care what the quarter mile time is, only how quickly and comfortably it will transport my passenger and me around The Ozarks and The Rockies.

It's not a matter of my size or my strength.  I "can" handle any motorcycle.  I just don't "enjoy" the heavier ones as much as the lighter ones.

The '09-up Road Kings are nice.  The new California 1400 is nice.  I've ridden them both.  The new Indian looks like it's going to be right in the fight.  Heck, I even entered to win one.  If I were to win an Indian, I'd probably ride it for awhile just to experience it.  Don't know if I'd keep it as long as I've kept my other bikes, though...

 :BEER:

[Kev m]

Yes.  My enjoyment level goes down quickly as the weight passes 500 lbs.  

For me, the perfect bike has two cylinders.  Is between 450 and 500 lbs.  Has between 80 and 100 bhp.  And, has the ability to accept Givi or H+B luggage.  I don't care what the quarter mile time is, only how quickly and comfortably it will transport my passenger and me around The Ozarks and The Rockies.

It's not a matter of my size or my strength.  I "can" handle any motorcycle.  I just don't "enjoy" the heavier ones as much as the lighter ones.

Honestly we probably have very similar tastes in this regard, though I might be ok with a little more weight and a little less power even on the "perfect" bike for me. Still we're closer than we are further apart.

The '09-up Road Kings are nice.  The new California 1400 is nice.  I've ridden them both.  The new Indian looks like it's going to be right in the fight.  Heck, I even entered to win one.  If I were to win an Indian, I'd probably ride it for awhile just to experience it.  Don't know if I'd keep it as long as I've kept my other bikes, though...

The 14+ RKs are sure to be similar to the 09-13, at least from a frame standpoint, and mostly from an engine standpoint (when did the base 103" TC motor become the standard in that chassis?). The new HO motor should have a little more umph.

And they changed a host of other things.

* The Brembo ABS brakes are now linked - though I'm told it's an electronic linking that only links under certain conditions/speeds.
* New larger (49mm) Forks.
* New saddlebag lids/latches - allow one handed operation.
* New switchgear - I THINK you can now toggle through the dash display from the handlebar and it looks like they've changed to a 1-touch hazard light.
* New lighting - LED or halogen depending on the model/application (halogens in the passing lamps on the RK, LED on some of the fairing models).

And obviously it retains the other items that made it such a versatile machine. Things like the quick detach bags and shield are great for service or for changing wind protection.

Though I'm sure some are going to chose the Indian Vintage over it - others are going to want to pass on the full fenders, fringe, and leather bags and I can understand that. I'm somewhere in the middle.

[Rotten Ralph]

I can also "ride" anything , and have done seat time on everything from AJS to Zundapp , even a Chang Jiang and a Mustang MC . That ain't the problem , it is the pushing part that I find objectionable about land barges , or if a foot slips on an oil patch while stopped .
Dusty

Us hackers don't worry about foot slips on oil! ;D ;D

Plus the sidecar holds a wife/SO who can push if needed.

BTW - the RK/TLE does the 1/4 in 37 seconds if I slip the clutch. ::(

Actually I 'm not sure of that time - they were resetting the traps by the time I got through.  ???

[custimguitarman]

I'm sure I'm not much different than most enthusiasts. Since I was a child I e loved the ole Indians! But what then and still does draw me in was the design and engineering of the power plant. It was different and it worked. I love flatheads! I'm sure the days are gone of flatheads but that was and to many still is an Indian.
I wish with our modern technology that we COULD once again dabble into the flathead world.
The one thing I hope for the new Indian is that it IS different ; not an S&S engine or a victory engine dressed up differently. Just different!

[LowRyter]

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/113/16899/Motorcycle-Article/2014-Harley-Davidson-Touring-First-Rides.aspx

"(Motorcycle USA) sampled both the air- and twin-cooled 103 platforms during our test ride, with no discernable difference in performance. Throttling out of Denver on I-70 (incidentally, probably the most beautiful stretch of interstate in the entire nation) I found acceleration adequate but underwhelming. Turned out my bike was an international version, which is geared taller, for the stricter emissions and the high-speed autobahns of Europe. The U.S. version I later switched to seemed to have a little more giddy-up, although acceleration still isn’t overwhelming."

my turn    :beat_horse

[Rotten Ralph]

HA !
Dusty

HA! You say! Let's see you take an RK / TLE through the traps at 37 seconds!!
(It was scary!)

[Kev m]

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/113/16899/Motorcycle-Article/2014-Harley-Davidson-Touring-First-Rides.aspx

"(Motorcycle USA) sampled both the air- and twin-cooled 103 platforms during our test ride, with no discernable difference in performance. Throttling out of Denver on I-70 (incidentally, probably the most beautiful stretch of interstate in the entire nation) I found acceleration adequate but underwhelming. Turned out my bike was an international version, which is geared taller, for the stricter emissions and the high-speed autobahns of Europe. The U.S. version I later switched to seemed to have a little more giddy-up, although acceleration still isn’t overwhelming."

my turn    :beat_horse

Wow, a fluff first impression from a jaded moto-journalist riding at altitude, it's practically a peer reviewed study.  ::)

I love how you cut the last line out of your quote paragraph:

The lean mountain air probably didn’t help matters in this regard.

Or his follow up statement saying that his bike was having problems.

Still waiting for some numbers or your experience.

Get back to us when you have either.

Meanwhile the way you seem obsessed with that horse beating emoticon is starting to remind me of a play...Equus   :o

[LongRanger]

Throttling out of Denver on I-70 (incidentally, probably the most beautiful stretch of interstate in the entire nation)

Westbound I trust. Eastbound, not so much.

Really good banter on this thread. Just one stupid question: What ever happened to Ridley? As Jerry once said, "Not that there's anything wrong with that."

[oldbike54]

Westbound I trust. Eastbound, not so much.

Really good banter on this thread. Just one stupid question: What ever happened to Ridley? As Jerry once said, "Not that there's anything wrong with that."

Sadly Ridley is no Moore .
Dusty
Edit , HD sued them successfully for 1/2 million dollars for the use of Auto Glide . Poor HD , so much for the freedom machine .

[LongRanger]

Huh, I had no idea. Anyway, I don't recall quarter-mile times being a selling point on these bikes either.

Sorry for the drift. We now return to our regularly scheduled program.

[LowRyter]

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/113/16899/Motorcycle-Article/2014-Harley-Davidson-Touring-First-Rides.aspx

"(Motorcycle USA) sampled both the air- and twin-cooled 103 platforms during our test ride, with no discernable difference in performance. Throttling out of Denver on I-70 (incidentally, probably the most beautiful stretch of interstate in the entire nation) I found acceleration adequate but underwhelming. Turned out my bike was an international version, which is geared taller, for the stricter emissions and the high-speed autobahns of Europe. The U.S. version I later switched to seemed to have a little more giddy-up, although acceleration still isn’t overwhelming."
my turn    :beat_horse

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/19/16349/Motorcycle-Article/2013-Moto-Guzzi-California-1400-Custom-Review.aspx

"In its full-power setting the California (1400) springs to life, throttle response snaps, it launches with authority and pulls like a mule. Wringing out first gear will jet you up to almost 50 mph in a flash. In Veloce/Sport mode, more torque is available earlier in the rev range similar to the engine output of its American counterparts." .........

"Because at 709 pounds, it is a heavy bike. Surprisingly, this doesn’t prohibit the California from sticking like glue through sweepers and doesn’t require manhandling at parking lot speeds. The engine is a load-bearing member of the frame and the bike feels like most of its bulk is carried low and forward so it does fall into corners on some of the tighter radiuses. Its floor boards are up high and allow plenty of clearance when banked over."


of course, I've ridden this bike so the words only confirm what I already know.

seems like the Harley still performs like a Harley, no match for the Cal 14.  Someone that's ridden the Cal and the Indian might let us know how they stack up.  In lieu of that I tend to agree with Rocker saying that the Indian and Harley are probably pretty close.  

[youcanrunnaked]

FYI, the "fringe" on the new Indian Chief Vintage is detachable.