The New Indian Chief Thunder Stroke 111 merged threadfest

[Kev m]

I was gonna skip this cause I thought it was a silly nit-picky point, but I'm a silly nit-picky guy so:

Harley and Moto Guzzi have been in business continuously for many years (regardless of who owned the company) so a retro bike from them is still a Guzzi or Harley.

I wish Polaris luck with their marketing but I still just don't get the concept. Remember the Excelsior?

I see you left out Triumph... I guess I just don't get, not getting the concept. People loved the looks and function of the old Indians.

IF they HAD been in business this entire time they would have evolved and changed in some ways.

I don't see the negative of trying to ressurect the brand name with bikes styled after their great bikes of old but using a modern designed motor and new chassis with modern components. What's the downside?

I mean, it's like saying that the V7 retros are OK ONLY BECAUSE Guzzi stayed in business all that time. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOO?

[rocker59]

I've seen those pix, before, of your bud's black/green Scout.

Good looking bike!  ;-T

[rocker59]

FWIW, the Gilroy Indians basically were using a copy of a Harley Softail frame, many parts were interchangeable between the chassis and motor on my bud's bike.
 

I forgot about that.  You're right.  I just Googled up some images.  Softail clone.

My comment about "4-speed frame" would refer to a bike with a Duo-Glide swingarm frame.

[Kev m]

I've seen those pix, before, of your bud's black/green Scout.

Good looking bike!  ;-T

I'm sure I've shared them here after the Heath rallye. I really kinda like the one at the gas station with my old Jackal next to it.

He feels a real kindred with Guzzi guys, as shortly after purchasing his then new Gilroy Indian he found himself without any dealers (or parts, or warranty  :BEER:).

That bike is a rider and he enjoys it for what it is. Keeps up with whatever I was doing on the Jackal or his bud on the GS too.

It's a bit low, and a bit loud for my taste, but that's fine, it's not mine...

[Andrew Thomas Evans]

I mean, it's like saying that the V7 retros are OK ONLY BECAUSE Guzzi stayed in business all that time. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOO?

LOL

 ;-T

[rboe]

Crocker and Henderson would be nice niche brand names to bring back.  ;D

[keithl]

The Miata was based on the original Lotus Elan is what I heard.   Is does look more like the elan than anything else.

Well, thanks for the correction.  I recall reading that Mazda bought the MG design, then went through it, and modernized the electrical and sheet metal.  But if that's incorrect, then I'm wrong.

Matt

[barenekd]

It looks like an Elan, which isn't a bad deal, however it as a clean sheet design done in Irvine CA. There certainly isn't anything MG about it. that's about like the accusations that the original Hinckley Triumphs were Kawasakis. There were some engineering consults there, but certainly nothing that was Kawasaki imitated.
Royal Enfield has been around basically longer than anyone and they have evolved into a Unit construction engine with EFI and electronic ignition with a totally modern design. they've even gone to hydraulic lifters, puts them ahead of MG! It's still based on the old engine, but is far better. It's a bit hard to call it retro, because it's never really looked much different. They ever went to a more modern design, then stepped back. They've always looked about the same.
Unfortunately,  my cafe racer version was run off the road a few months ago and totaled. I was waiting for their new Cafe Racer to get here, but I got tired of waiting and bought the Guzzi V7R. I gotta have something to ride!
As for the real theme of this thread, Polaris is selling off the left over stuff from the last company that built Indians until they get their new one out. Polaris' bikes will be totally new and original and more Indian like, including the engine. Not a customized Hardly Ableson.

[Rotten Ralph]

I mean, it's like saying that the V7 retros are OK ONLY BECAUSE Guzzi stayed in business all that time. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOO?

No, it's like saying that the V7 retros are still Guzzis made by Guzzi. The retro Indian is a brand new motorcycle with some styling features of a long defunct company. It's not an Indian except in a purchased name.

I never said there was anything wrong with trying that approach and I said I wish them luck. I still just don't get it. ::)

[Kev m]

No, it's like saying that the V7 retros are still Guzzis made by Guzzi. The retro Indian is a brand new motorcycle with some styling features of a long defunct company. It's not an Indian except in a purchased name.

I never said there was anything wrong with trying that approach and I said I wish them luck. I still just don't get it. ::)

But how is it still made by "Guzzi"?

Because the assembly point is the same factory?

Even though the engines are built elsewhere, and someone else designed nearly everything the current bike?

The "Guzzi" that built the V7 Sport, Eldo, Ambo etc is long gone.

Is the fact that the bankrupt business was bought by someone, and then someone else somehow a more significant direct lineage to the sacred cow?

There's no real DNA being handed down in either case.

[Andrew Thomas Evans]

Is the fact that the bankrupt business was bought by someone, and then someone else somehow a more significant direct lineage to the sacred cow?

There's no real DNA being handed down in either case.

It's amazing Guzzi is still around.

[Nick]

The "Guzzi" that built the V7 Sport, Eldo, Ambo etc is long gone.

Wow Kev, you are reaaaallllly stretching it there.

What if Kawasaki would have purchased the "sacred INDIAN name" and came out with this ad



would we have called it a Drifter or an Indian?   ;)

[Rotten Ralph]

Wow Kev, you are reaaaallllly stretching it there.

What if Kawasaki would have purchased the "sacred INDIAN name" and came out with this ad



would we have called it a Drifter or an Indian?   ;)

 :+1 :+1

[Kev m]

Then Kawi finally would have had the right to build bikes shaped like that AND to call them Indian to boot!  ;-T

[Andrew Thomas Evans]

Wow Kev, you are reaaaallllly stretching it there.

How is he stretching it?

The company has been though a few owners since then, and now has a recent model line with all (or almost all) products being new within the last 10 years - sure names are re-badged but that's about it.

[Nick]

How is he stretching it?

The company has been though a few owners since then, and now has a recent model line with all (or almost all) products being new within the last 10 years - sure names are re-badged but that's about it.

And isn't that true for the entire car/motorcycle industry?

Since Audi purchased Ducati, is it still Ducati?

As far as the Guzzi model line-up, Thank God for Piaggio or Moto Guzzi would now be where Indian has been since 1953, Out Of Business.

The fact of the matter is: Polaris bought a "name", that's it.
I wish them good luck!

Ooops...dinner is ready  :food

[Andrew Thomas Evans]

The fact of the matter is: Polaris bought a "name", that's it.

So?


=/

[John Ulrich]

Skidoo could buy the Orange County Chopper name and restart that brand!

[bad Chad]

[/quote]

But how is it still made by "Guzzi"?

Because the assembly point is the same factory?

Even though the engines are built elsewhere, and someone else designed nearly everything the current bike?

The "Guzzi" that built the V7 Sport, Eldo, Ambo etc is long gone.

Is the fact that the bankrupt business was bought by someone, and then someone else somehow a more significant direct lineage to the sacred cow?

There's no real DNA being handed down in either case.

I'm pretty sure that small block engines have always been manufactured outside Mandelo.    I think there is real Old school Guzzi DNA in the current small block line to be sure.  It is still the same block that one of the famous Guzzi engineers designed.  It is still the same architecture for the trans and drive train as well.  That's not to say their has not be a great deal of refinements and changes made, but the big heavy hard parts are essentially the same as those first put out in the 70s.

[Nick]

OK, I am stating the obvious , but this is not an Indian , no heritage , no history . Polaris is a wonderful company , fine products , but they are not the Hendee Manufacturing ,co. builders of the Indian Motocycle ,no R . I hope Polaris can sell these , but marketing the heritage is ,well , marketing .
Dusty

Dusty, you da man!

....and please don't blush! ;D

[Kev m]

 :-* I wasn't being metaphorical with my DNA comment.  :BEER:

[Steph]

Video 0:59:
 "Choice is coming to American motorcycles"
Great PR, what a bunch of BS!

I wouldn't buy a start up retro. I've seen too many corporate swindles: Norton, DeLorean...

[rocker59]

I wouldn't buy a start up retro. I've seen too many corporate swindles: Norton, DeLorean...

But, Polaris is not a "startup".  They've been around since 1954.

[Steph]

But, Polaris is not a "startup".  They've been around since 1954.

yep, selling skidoo (sic)  ;)

[Kev m]

yep, selling skidoo (sic)  ;)

Uh, no... that's Bombardier...who ironically now owns Johnson/Evinrude...

[Kev m]

Wait a minute Bombardier is Canadian , and French Canadian at that , is this all a conspiracy ?
Dusty

Mon Dieu!

[Kev m]

Mon Dieu back at ya . And several other French words you silly Englishman .
Dusty

Don't call me English you bastid... Dad was born/raised in Dublin, Ireland and mom's dad was born in Borgatoro, Italy.  ~;

[Steph]

I don't know sh*t about Polaris making V twin motorcycles.
I do remember them making skidoo wantabee snowmobiles tho :-*

[Kev m]

The Vics do really seem to be a quality product.  ;-T

[Steph]

Actually Polaris snowmobiles are pretty highly regarded as are their 4 wheelers . The Victory brand , despite a slow start , is also a critical success , modern , and reliable . OK , so the styling is a matter of taste , but so are Hondas and Triumphs .
Dusty

Ok, so we agree that they have been around 1954 making highly regarded skidoo copies and are now looking into American motorcycle shopper buying powers  ;D