Project Live Wire - Electric Harley Davidson merged threadfest

[twowheeladdict]

I give credit to Harley for offering such a radical departure from their established brand of V-Twin cruiser style bike. This is so far removed from a typical H-D product and I suspect even further removed from what a H-D buyer is looking for. I like the idea of H-D selling an electric bike with sleek styling but I can't see how the H-D market could embrace this.

If the sales history of the Street Rod or Buel are any indication this is going to be a very tough sale.

I could see BMW selling a few, appealing to the tech side of their market base, but Harley Davidson ????

The street rod is a 750cc bike.  Are you talking about the Vrod?  I rode the Vrod and it was fun, but didn't feel like a Harley.  For a 3rd of the money I bought the less prestigious Vulcan Mean Streak power cruiser. 

[twowheeladdict]

Twowheel, you need to check your facts.  The most powerfully equiped Zero has significantly more of everything you want than the HD and for FAR less money.

Equipped for maximum run time MSRP $16,890.

https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/   click SPEC at top of page

You forgot to check the options to get to the range you talked about and the extra charging.  The starting MSRP is now $19,990.

I would need to compare all the features side by side before I decided that the Harley has enough extra features to justify the extra cost.  I don't care enough to do that though.  But it would be interesting to know how they stack up feature to feature. 


 

[Perazzimx14]

I don’t know what region you live in, but based on your claim,  you don’t live where the large majority of Americans live.

I live in the North East. I am located within less than 2 hours of Baltimore, Washington DC, and Allentown. 3 hours from either Pittsburgh or Philly and 4 hours of NYC.

[Rick in WNY]

I don't like to sound like a hater, but IMHO, HD is doing this wrong.

They released the price tag and the "urban range" numbers.

The first is far too high, the second, far too low.

Yet, we have no specs from them on important things on this machine. Wheelbase, seat height, weight, battery capacity, and especially, they're mum about HP and torque numbers. They say it will go from zero to 60 in "under 3.5 seconds" and that's nice... but how many times can you do that before the battery is flat? How long does it take to recharge? Can we add more battery packs for more range like Zero?

I remain underwhelmed with this bike, and I don't have great expectations for it's longevity.

Alta was building better machines than this, for less money, and now they're out of business.

And as for the Zero, if you get their long range model and add the extra battery pack, the "power tank" option, you get 223 miles urban or 112 miles highway at 70 mph.

https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/

Kudos to them for understanding the difference between stop and go 30-45 mph urban driving and 60-70 mph open road cruising. HD could learn a few things about electric bikes from reading their competitors websites. My internal pessimist says this will not end well... and we, the consumers, will be forced to accept whatever crappy options the manufactures deem worth building.

FWIW, I would love an electric bike for daily commuting. My ride is 42 miles each way. One way is all up and down hills, the other is mostly flat, but the last 20 miles would require driving on a divided highway that while posted at 65, if you're not doing 75-80 you're risking getting ran over. So, the high end zero would just nicely cover my commute. Add the Power Tank and I'd have a decent reserve. Depending on how the V85 is doing in two more years, well, the price tags are similar enough, so I can easily see one or the other coming home with me.

[Gliderjohn]

It almost like H-D is setting this up to fail. It would make more sense to me for them to initially sell under cost to possibly get the ball rolling a bit. Wonder what audience they will target with the marketing? Between being electric and the styling I don't see hardly any interest from the faithful. I could see a H-D rider that is a serious rider than happens to prefer H-D road bikes buying an electric for daily commuting but that is going to be a small group.
GliderJohn

[rocker59]

Sort of like the Chevy Volt. 

HD has checked the box.

That's about it...

[bad Chad]

Twowheel you still don’t have it right.   I was correct.  The SR with the zf14 battery and power pack option does provide the mileage I quoted for less than $17,000.   I never claimed it had high speed charging in this configuration.

I believe you are coming up with the inflated price by adding the $2295 Power Tank, which is not compatible with the Power Pack option. As well ass adding the $600 Quck Charger accessory. 

[Lannis]

Twowheel you still don’t have it right.   I was correct.  The SR with the zf14 battery and power pack option does provide the mileage I quoted for less than $14,000.   I never claimed it had high speed charging in this configuration.

I believe you are coming up with the inflated price by adding the $2295 Power Tank, which is not compatible with the Power Pack option. As well ass adding the $600 Quck Charger accessory.  Yet even with those options which you can’t do the price would still be a sub $17,000 msrp, where are you getting $19,990??

As we were saying on another thread, any bike with an "MSRP" (aka "FOB Factory Loading Dock") of $16,999 is going to be north of $19K "out the door", once preparation, set up, document charges, freight, and all the other delightful "dealer costs that have to be charged" are added in.   That's probably where it comes from ....

Lannis

[bad Chad]

No Lannis that is not what he said, and I assume he means what he says,

His quote is as follows, "You forgot to check the options to get to the range you talked about and the extra charging.  The starting MSRP is now $19,990."   

We all know we have to add shipping, tax, maybe some doc, but that goes into every new sale, it is not part of any MSRP.  We are still talking about a $13,000 difference in list price between the two bikes.

[Toecutter]

It almost like H-D is setting this up to fail. It would make more sense to me for them to initially sell under cost to possibly get the ball rolling a bit. Wonder what audience they will target with the marketing? Between being electric and the styling I don't see hardly any interest from the faithful. I could see a H-D rider that is a serious rider than happens to prefer H-D road bikes buying an electric for daily commuting but that is going to be a small group.
GliderJohn

The same market that buys in early to all modern tech. The same folks that bought a Betamax machine when it first dropped, and were first in line for a plasma TV, and stood in line for the latest and greatest phone... .the same market that will pay a premium to be first, always. and then, slowly, the tech standardizes, R&D costs are recovered, and it slowly becomes commonplace.

[Lannis]

No Lannis that is not what he said, and I assume he means what he says,

His quote is as follows, "You forgot to check the options to get to the range you talked about and the extra charging.  The starting MSRP is now $19,990."   

We all know we have to add shipping, tax, maybe some doc, but that goes into every new sale, it is not part of any MSRP.  We are still talking about a $13,000 difference in list price between the two bikes.

Busted.

[s1120]

Well there will always be some sales... The big buck collectors will buy one because then can, and no one else will have one.. That being said there are a LOT of riders out there that think 100 miles is a long tour..I think the tech would be awesome for a nice little mid size commuter. the problem is hiding the high cost of the new tech. its a lot easier to hide a few extra grad in a fancy wiz-bang bike, then a basic sub 10grand everyday bike..  So I think in years to come it will be a thing.. and maybe a few of these specials will come and go, and get some miles on them, and "trickle down" sort of.. I think there IS a future for them.. odds are not my generation...  And odds are not the next...  with Millennials not being much for riding... but things like this tend to jump generations...  Our grand lids will be loving them.

[JeffOlson]

It is expensive, no doubt, but its Achilles Heel is it limited range (to say nothing of the lack of infrastructure/charging stations). For me, with my 300-mile commute and no charging station at my office, electric vehicles are interesting at best. Perhaps one day...

[oldbike54]

 Uh , Jeff old buddy , 300 miles isn't a commute , that is a relocation 

 Dusty

[s1120]

300 mile commute is pretty aggressive!!  really though most people live within 30 miles from work. Granted noone is commuting on this 30K HD!!!   

[Aaron D.]

I think the real purpose of this bike is to bump share price-the people at HD know this isn't going to pay for itself in sale/profit, but showing that they have the virtuous technology might bump the stock price up a few dollars.

Happens a lot.

[Lannis]

..... showing that they have the virtuous technology .....

I think you've summarized this bike's raison d'être right there ....

Lannis

[old as dirt 2]

oh look at me I have a electric HD. looks great on the trailer don't ya think?

[TimmyTheHog]

Uh , Jeff old buddy , 300 miles isn't a commute , that is a relocation 

 Dusty

2ND THAT!

I already bitch at my 80 miles commute...I can't imagine 300...

[Gliderjohn]

old as dirt 2:

oh look at me I have a electric HD. looks great on the trailer don't ya think?

Well...it's not safe to ride on the street. Loud pipes save lives and there ain't no loud. 
GliderJohn

[JeffOlson]

Uh , Jeff old buddy , 300 miles isn't a commute , that is a relocation 

 Dusty

It is not too bad: 150 miles in each direction, with a long stop in between for work. On average, I do it just once or twice each week for a total of 5 to 10 hours of travel.

When we lived "in town" (the country, really) and I commuted 5 days a week, it often took 90 minutes to travel 20 miles each way, or 15 hours per week in total... So, I am traveling fewer hours each week (though at a much faster average speed).

When the weather is fine and I decide to ride, it is a nice warmup for my bike.

[Kiwi_Roy]

How many of you actually watched the video Pressureangle posted?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjANznPknyM

I can see a lot of bugs being impressed by that LOL

[twowheeladdict]

Twowheel you still don’t have it right.   I was correct.  The SR with the zf14 battery and power pack option does provide the mileage I quoted for less than $17,000.   I never claimed it had high speed charging in this configuration.

I believe you are coming up with the inflated price by adding the $2295 Power Tank, which is not compatible with the Power Pack option. As well ass adding the $600 Quck Charger accessory.

I just clicked on the options available and read the price at the bottom.  If Zero let me select competing options then shame on them for not building a good website. 

[pressureangle]

How many of you actually watched the video Pressureangle posted?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjANznPknyM

I can see a lot of bugs being impressed by that LOL

I rode the thing. I talked to the engineers for 4 hours. I talked to the marketing people, and the design people.

This is not a checkbox. This is a very serious entry into an untapped market.

FWIW, in the after-ride opinion survey, asked 'what would you pay for this' I said ~$18k. I think the price reflects the balance between initial production numbers, red ink, and demographics.

I said I'd have the first one that day, and I still mean to. It's that cool, and I haven't bought but 2 new motorcycles in my entire life, both for racing.
Given that I rarely ride more than 100 miles a day, distance isn't an issue. What it feels like on those short trips is everything- otherwise, I'll take the car, right? No gas, no starter, no clutch or shifter.

This bike, given the ability to remove the controls, is the absolute in Hooliganism.

[Lannis]

How many of you actually watched the video Pressureangle posted?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjANznPknyM

I can see a lot of bugs being impressed by that LOL

I was too busy watching this one ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF9AC2Ce2ow

If fantasy movie scenes work, Ducati ought to be outselling everyone ... !

Lannis

[kballowe]

- just my casual observance -

I see a lot of "costs too much" and "range is too short" and some Harley bashing, thrown in for good measure ......
- But maybe a bit more odd is that it's already a three page electric Harley thread on a Moto Guzzi forum.

What I think is that someone needs to buy one of these things and lend it to me for a weekend.
 

 

[pressureangle]

- just my casual observance -

I see a lot of "costs too much" and "range is too short" and some Harley bashing, thrown in for good measure ......
- But maybe a bit more odd is that it's already a three page electric Harley thread on a Moto Guzzi forum.

What I think is that someone needs to buy one of these things and lend it to me for a weekend.
 

 

Come to the 2019 Southern Spine Raid. With any luck, and no delays in delivery...

[larrys]

Pretty cool, but not real practical for common use, and not worth the money. I think that there has to be another great leap forward in battery technology to make electric vehicles a viable alternative.
Larry

[bad Chad]

Let's talk about this again on 2/25/19.  Zero Motorcycles will release an entirely new platform, that I suspect will crush the HD on any front that matters, even though they already have!

https://www.zeromotorcycles.com

[jas67]

Let's talk about this again on 2/25/19.  Zero Motorcycles will release an entirely new platform, that I suspect will crush the HD on any front that matters, even though they already have!

https://www.zeromotorcycles.com

Watch for good deals on the soon-to-be obsolete current model Zeros.