Project Live Wire - Electric Harley Davidson merged threadfest

[Lannis]

Electric vehicles are the rage, everyone is coming out with one. I was behind a Tesla the other day and his license plate read "NOGAS" Here in Illinois it should read, 48% low sulfur coal 49% enriched Uranium and 3% other.

Very true, but you're never going to hear it on the news or in the advertisements.   They're ZERO emissions, don't you know?   The electricity to drive it forward comes from the quantum interstices from the fabric of the universe, and the material for the batteries ... well, we've seen that before, the ultimate in earth-rape, making coal strip mining look positively green.

But say nothing about any of that; all you need to know is that "It's coming ..."  "Get out of the way ..."  "It's the wave of the future ...."  "Step aside, pathetic holders-on to a dead past ...."  "Soon we will be in control and there will be no more petrol  BWAHHahahah ..."  "Don't stand in the way of progress ..."

Uh huh.

Lannis

[Shorty]

Harley may have to have a seperate place to sell the 'Lectric bikes. Not sure the tree huggers want to be in the same building as the "bad asses." It may trigger them. Heaven forbid, there may be people smoking in the parking lot. And even cussin' a little! All those gutteral belly laughs might shake their sensibilities..... "Did that fat man look at my BUTT?"  I am exaggerating, (and stereotyping, as usual)  but trying to sell "green" bikes, after nurturing that tough guy image might be a stretch. 

[Rough Edge racing]

 Electric street  bike, no clutch , no gears,no throbbing engine, just twist the grip and go...No thanks...But an electric off road bike is a good idea.. quiet  and plently of power..

[roadscum]

The price point is way out of line.... but then again , when has selling a slower, lower-tech version of a modern motorcycle for 20% more $$ than the competition ever stopped HD?


Their loyalists don't want it, their target market can't afford it, and it's barely even middle of the pack performance-wise among it's competitors.
They are gonna take quite a hit on this, then say "the market isn't ready", "the tech isnt there yet"

+1. Ya got that right!

Paul

[LongRanger]

Harley may have to have a seperate place to sell the 'Lectric bikes. Not sure the tree huggers want to be in the same building as the "bad asses." It may trigger them. Heaven forbid, there may be people smoking in the parking lot. And even cussin' a little! All those gutteral belly laughs might shake their sensibilities..... "Did that fat man look at my BUTT?"  I am exaggerating, (and stereotyping, as usual)  but trying to sell "green" bikes, after nurturing that tough guy image might be a stretch. 

lol

+ about a million

[PJPR01]

This crowd doesn't exist. Tesla-Audi-BMW-Volvo buyers are sophisticated people and in their minds the Harley brand means heavy, inefficient, overpriced 1960s technology.

It may be a small group, but who else would buy it then? 

Or it could be mandated for China which would go gaga over the brand but with pollution controls becoming mandatory, it might be a decent alternative for the nouveau riche millionaires/billionaires who want a toy.  They might not put a lot of mileage on it, it could be a status symbol like buying a 1962 Chateau Mouton-Rothschild that gathers dust in the wine cave.

Who says the purchase mandatorily must be used, it might just sit there as a piece of art....gauche as it might be...

:)

[oldbike54]

 Some of you guys believe the IC engine has been around since the beginning of civilization , when in reality it is just a blip . E vehicles are coming as surely as the IC engine replaced the horse , which I might remind you caused great consternation among the horse loyalists . Change is the one constant , how many of you saw the personal computer revolution ?

 Oh , Jas67 , you are correct , Polaris bought Brammo , the Livewire was developed from the Mission Motorcycle E bike , which of course doesn't match up favorably to the Zero either .

 Dusty

[oldbike54]

It may be a small group, but who else would buy it then? 

Or it could be mandated for China which would go gaga over the brand but with pollution controls becoming mandatory, it might be a decent alternative for the nouveau riche millionaires/billionaires who want a toy.  They might not put a lot of mileage on it, it could be a status symbol like buying a 1962 Chateau Mouton-Rothschild that gathers dust in the wine cave.

Who says the purchase mandatorily must be used, it might just sit there as a piece of art....gauche as it might be...

:)

 Paul , the MoCo corporate culture won't support a motorbike that only sells in small numbers , maybe if this thing said Moto Guzzi on the tank it would be viable , but HD killed the Buell and V rod platforms because they didn't sell in the tens of thousands per year .

 Dusty

[JJ]

Make no mistake...electric cars / motorcycles / bicycles are in our future...whether we like it or not.   

A neighbor of mine just ordered one of these...RAD electric bikes...I told him I want to ride it when it arrives!!

[PJPR01]

Paul , the MoCo corporate culture won't support a motorbike that only sells in small numbers , maybe if this thing said Moto Guzzi on the tank it would be viable , but HD killed the Buell and V rod platforms because they didn't sell in the tens of thousands per year .

 Dusty

With HD sales down approx 10%, which is approx 20K bikes lower than the prior year, any pick up they get from electric bikes will be welcome...but they don't expect to turn around their sales numbers in the short term.  Clearly the time horizon for this "radical" departure for HD must be a 4 to 5 year plan.   Given the tariff hits HD has had to absorb, shifting their production to SE Asia to reduce costs and also tap into markets that use a moto as basic transport (Thailand, China, Burma (Myanmar) is a likely place for electric bikes to grow...not this particular model obviously since it's at the high end, but I suspect they'll have a range of electric bikes and this one is their premium offering for the Tesla crowd. 

My guess is they try to sell 500 of these monster bikes, 2500 of the next level down, 5000 of the mid range and 10,000 low end electric bikes per year over time, ramping up steadily over the next several years.

Just my guess...

[s1120]

I don't think the traditional Harley market is the target market for this, electric lifestyle doesn't mesh with doo rags and vests anyway.

It's going to be folks who have money (think Tesla owners or now high end Audi, BMW, Volvo electric/hybrid) owners who want a "Harley" looking bike, but that is "green in nature".  That new crowd has the money to spend, whether it's $20K, $25K or $30K.

It might be a total flop, but I think they are banking on a totally different class of folks to buy this bike.

I think the problem lies in the fact that the normally tesla, or high end electric/hybrid customer is not going to be looking at a HD.. it will be a joke to them IMHO. I bet if BMW offered this bike, at this price point, they would sell... not a ton... but they will sell. Fact is "the Brand" makes a huge difference to a lot of people..  and someone that wants a 2 wheel tesla is going to think a HD is a joke...  Just ask VW how it did selling the Phaeton... 

[Ncdan]

I don't think the traditional Harley market is the target market for this, electric lifestyle doesn't mesh with doo rags and vests anyway.

It's going to be folks who have money (think Tesla owners or now high end Audi, BMW, Volvo electric/hybrid) owners who want a "Harley" looking bike, but that is "green in nature".  That new crowd has the money to spend, whether it's $20K, $25K or $30K.

It might be a total flop, but I think they are banking on a totally different class of folks to buy this bike.

That’s exactly what the rep said on TV, in so many words, totally new market to derive from the introduction of this wizard of technology:)
Just looking back on historical as an older guy here is my thoughts on the EBike for our country. 100 mile range is a deal breaker for the majority of the motorcycle enthusiast, that being said. Let em get that number to 300 miles and hide and watch.

[kirb]

To those who state the bike isn't 'green' because the electricity comes from coal and other sources like that... yes, it does. The thing about all that dirty coal- it's easier to control pollution at one stack than 1 million tailpipes. The material for the batteries...well, that is another dark secret of this technology.

People only want to focus on the topics that support their agenda and ignore some of the others.

[bad Chad]

Just so folks understand the specs.  HD $30 thousand dollar bike is claimed to be able to reach 140 miles on the max charge.

Their main comp Zero Motorcycle has a new model which seems a far better machine, for a lot less money. 

The SR/F  will go 200 miles on a max charge, go 124mph, deliver peak torque of 140 Ft-LB!!  Can be charged to 95% full in 80 min, (60 min if you want to spring for the deluxe)  And to me looks ever bit as good as the HD, all for $8000 less.

You can apparently get very similar specs, for even far less on the previous generation design, still being made.

[Cam3512]

This electric vehicle crap will not be mainstream for another 20-30 years (Dusty, save this post).  It's been around for a long time and still hasn't caught on.  Don't get all foamed up over it.

Anybody want to buy some solar panels?

Brooklyn Bridge?

20 year old Guzzi?

[Gliderjohn]

I really support the electric thing for both bikes and cars overall but...this kind of pricing for pretty much commuter range seems steep. A $4,900 250-300 cc range IC bike would still be much more cost efficient when considering the purchase price difference and do 90% of commuting needs.
As mentioned get that range up into a real life 200+ range, get reasonable on purchase price and it will be Nelly out the barn door.
GliderJohn

[twowheeladdict]

Interesting how this forum makes us tip toe around social issues but it is open season on Harley bashing and stereotyping Harley owners.  Is this what is called hypocrisy? 

Well gentlemen living in the past, the face of the Harley owner is changing.  At least among those buying new machines.  A large percentage of the Road Glide riders I have met wear modular helmets, kevlar gear with armor, gloves and boots. 

Of course I know this post will probably get deleted because I am not piling on with the hate talk.   

[LowRyter]

Electric motorcycles?  My goodness, who ever even thought it about it before?  How is possible?

Never in a million years would I ever guess that someone would sell an electric motorcycle.   

[twowheeladdict]

Electric motorcycles?  My goodness, who ever even thought it about it before?  How is possible?

Never in a million years would I ever guess that someone would sell an electric motorcycle.   

Considering that there have been electric cars available for sale over 100 years ago, I'm guessing a lot of people thought about it.  Just figuring out where to put 1000 lbs of batteries was the problem. 

[kirkemon]

Who's ridden one of these?
https://www.energicamotorusa.com/

[TodkaVonic]

Not sure if it'll fly and I don't really care either way except that it's never fun to watch something fail. I would say that sometimes it takes a big player, like a Harley Davidson, to make something mainstream and, thus, acceptable and something others follow. Concerning the comments, why not just acknowledge that *you* are not willing to shell out $30K for an electric bike and remind yourself that *you* are not everyone nor do you speak for everyone? And hey, come on, if there's one thing that unites pretty much every Guzzi owner it's that we're all tight as Tupperware. "You want $3200 for that? Well I won't pay more than $2950 and anyone who does is a damn fool!" Anyhow, the market is filled with expensive toys (3 wheeled Morgan, anyone?) that, despite the fact that they're crazy pricey and sort of ridiculously impractical, somehow are made and bought and exist despite those seemingly insurmountable issues and the universal disinterest from penurius Guzzi owners.

I say 1) good for HD and 2) not for me and 3) I hope they sell and 4) I hope that other manufacturers do similar.

[Cam3512]

We're more energy independent than we've ever been.  IC engines are going nowhere.  Remember,  bigger the better?  Keep huggin those trees.

[ohiorider]

I imagine many folks who don't ride a motorcycle today don't do so because they've know, or can imagine, the stats.  Motorcyclists are at least 25x more likely to be injured or killed in a confrontation with a car than someone else in a car.

The fact that the motorcycle would no longer be powered by an internal combustion engine but by an electric motor will probably elicit a big yawn from the already-non-riding public, and an even bigger yawn from their current customer base.

Bob

[Moto Fugazzi]

Make no mistake...electric cars / motorcycles / bicycles are in our future...whether we like it or not.   

A neighbor of mine just ordered one of these...RAD electric bikes...I told him I want to ride it when it arrives!!

I picked up a Giant brand electric bicycle a few weeks ago and haven't ridden my motorcycle since. I can pedal up steep hills at over 20mph like I'm in first gear.

Once battery technology improves, or they can create a regenerative drive system to keep the battery charged and increase mileage, then these electric motorbikes we be more acceptable and practical. Many countries are also placing a ban on new gas powered vehicles starting as early as 2025, and even LA and Seattle have a ban on new vehicles starting at 2030.
Ken

[Lannis]

Once battery technology improves, or they can create a regenerative drive system to keep the battery charged and increase mileage, then these electric motorbikes we be more acceptable and practical.
Ken

This has been true (for both cars and bikes) and has been stated continuously from about 1906 until today.

It's still true, 113 years on.    It's sort of a basic physics problem having to do with energy density.

And I'm all for having to leave your IC vehicle at the door (along with your shoes) at the "IN" door to major cities like LA and Seattle.   They'd be much pleasanter places.

Lannis

[Shorty]

Maybe in a few years, there will be a new biker show, "Sons of E.M.F."       

[elvisboy77]

Electric vehicles are the rage, everyone is coming out with one. I was behind a Tesla the other day and his license plate read "NOGAS" Here in Illinois it should read, 48% low sulfur coal 49% enriched Uranium and 3% other.

Wow, you get it!  Well said, sir.

[Huzo]

when has selling a slower, lower-tech version of a modern motorcycle for 20% more $$ than the competition ever stopped HD?

Or Guzzi ?

[twowheeladdict]

Motorcyclists are at least 25x more likely to be injured or killed in a confrontation with a car than someone else in a car.

I love statistics.  They can be made to say anything you want when worded correctly.  I agree with the intent of the above statistic. 

Without the rest of the story it is just an interesting bit of knowledge. 

How many drivers have never been in a wreck with another car their entire life?

How many motorcyclists have never been in a wreck with a car?

How many wrecks were avoided because a person was on a motorcycle instead of in a car?

My Dad was in his first car wreck at 82 years old.  I know many riders who have never impacted with a car. 

So, yes, if you screw up you have a greater chance of being injured.  That knowledge there does help riders to not become complacent like so many car drivers are. 

There are many things in life that screwing up can bring dire consequense. 

[oldbike54]

This electric vehicle crap will not be mainstream for another 20-30 years (Dusty, save this post).  It's been around for a long time and still hasn't caught on.  Don't get all foamed up over it.

Anybody want to buy some solar panels?

Brooklyn Bridge?

20 year old Guzzi?

 Cam , I'll be dead in 20 years , so there will be no way to prove or disprove your assumption . I will say this , when cordless tools first came out , every old school carpenter laughed and said "Those will never catch on" . Go to any job site now , the only corded tools will be a table saw , a miter saw , and the combination radio battery charger . Same with tankless water heaters , and solar panels , all becoming much more commonplace . It took 40 years from the first Otto Cycle engine to the introduction of practical if somewhat crude IC powered vehicles , but once the infrastructure was in place to support the change from horses to cars happened at breath taking speed . I won't make any predictions when , but once the change really starts it will be rapid .

 Our own Shorty on WG predicted in about 1998 that this internet thing was never gonna catch on , "I got yer dot com right here" was the quote . We still laugh about that 

 Dusty