Author Topic: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair, Maybe Restoration, Thread  (Read 78200 times)

Offline Unkept

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Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair, Maybe Restoration, Thread
« on: March 08, 2014, 05:06:47 PM »
Hey WildGuzzi

I just thought I'd share in my troubles.  ;D I've torn the V11 LeMans apart, it looks like it's exploded in my garage.  ;-T




The main reason why I've dug into the bike is because of this nasty oil leak from my from timing cover...




... and I need to pull the Ohlins shock for a rebuild.

I'll be pulling the swingarm soon, checking it's bearings and inspecting the front u-joint.


So I took pictures of each of the swingarm pivot bolts. I've been told to take note of the exposed threads (will also measure this of course) to be sure to line up the swingarm correctly on re-assembly.



Can you tell which side is which? Winner gets an internet cookie.  ;D Also, spot the hose clamps!  :D

I found that you can't access the timing cover bolts without removing  the front swingarm, because on the 02+ V11 Sports they welded additional cross bracing in there which block access to the timing case....  ::)
Before I did that though, I had thought it wise to remove the oil cooler first... WRONG.

One of the bolts (replaced by Guzzi I noticed... mine were hex heads, new style are button/allen key) had a head snap off when I went to remove the bolt. The other three came clean, no issues!  :D

When removing the front forks, I found that the seals are basically shot. Not surprising, over 54k on these babies I'm sure...


Only the "right" fork is leaking truly... and it's also way to easy too compress. :( Light fork rebuild time.  :BEER:

So I received my new rear tire, a Michelin Road Pilot 4 GT in 170/60-17 instead of 180/55-17, and so I thought it would be best to remove the rotor on the rear wheel to better facilitate the tire change.


Bad idea yet again...  ;D


So the loose bolts are ones which came easily. I soaked them all in pbblaster and used my heat gun to remove them, but three were stubborn. I tried to use my easy out on them... and you can see where one bolt is partially filled with my easy out which snapped in half.  :'(

I was trying to get my rear drive repainted, as it's had flaky paint since before I ever had the bike... but the local painter guy doesn't seem to want to tackle it. He thinks I should powder coat it, but that means a full disassemble as you can't powder coat without ruining the seals, etc... Not sure what to do on this front?


Eventually I'd like to repaint/refinish the whole bike. It has bad paint literally everywhere. Here is the flaking cylinder paint!


The factory frame sticker is toast, but threads like Canuck's make me want to print a new replica to stick in it's place.  ;D


Rust on my fairing frame...


Fairing and Ti cans laying to the side. The fairing needs repainting/repair since my accident in 2012.


Love my, no longer available :(, Joe Kenny headguards! I need a new spark plug cap/boot.


Here is a goody I received recently... FBF crossover.  ;D Ti+FBF crossover= fun!


I'm trying to clean up the exhaust, but the headers are kinda nasty. Not sure, but maybe replacement or ceramic coating is best?

The LeMans must be patient, as this is a lot of work and I have limited time and budget.



SO my good friend Chuck has offered help on these issues, I'll re
port back when I get things done...  **C

Here is Lindsey's Breva, happily watching me work... while it's 100% intact and shiny in that lovely... scratch-less, perfect, red paint.  :D
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 07:17:08 PM by Unkept »
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Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2014, 05:23:18 PM »
Alrighty, now! A project! Woo hoo.. Should be a good thread.
Quote
I was trying to get my rear drive repainted, as it's had flaky paint since before I ever had the bike... but the local painter guy doesn't seem to want to tackle it. He thinks I should powder coat it, but that means a full disassemble as you can't powder coat without ruining the seals, etc... Not sure what to do on this front?
That's a no brainer.. one that I'm obviously qualified for.  ;D Strip it with aircraft stripper, and paint it with Harley wrinkle paint. (your motorcycle won't immediately start turning into every bar you see)  ~;
See the Lario rehab thread for ideas on painting your engine, etc.
Bring that wheel/rotor down. Pup.  ~; Don't break any more eze outs in a bolt.. ;D I have carbide,and know how to use it.. What made you think you needed top get that rotor off, anyway??  ~; :BEER:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

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I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline cloudbase

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2014, 05:27:27 PM »
If I had everything broken that far down, I'd go with the powder coat.

Good luck with the project, Joe.

Offline pauldaytona

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2014, 05:46:42 PM »
timing cover just looks like a leaking camtiming or oilpressure sensor. Hard to see in this neglected state
Paul

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2014, 05:58:42 PM »
timing cover just looks like a leaking camtiming or oilpressure sensor. Hard to see in this neglected state

You are probably right, Paul.. normally you'd see more on the bottom of the timing cover if it was leaking..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

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I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline Stormtruck2

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2014, 06:05:16 PM »
Hey WildGuzzi

I just thought I'd share in my troubles.  ;D I've torn the V11 LeMans apart, it looks like it's exploded in my garage.  ;-T




Now that we know what bikes you aren't riding to Cedar Vale, which one are you going to ride??






Or will you be riding my grandsons favorite ride??


My offer stands Kept!!  Good luck with the resto.  Thats not a repair but a restoration!!!!
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Offline Tom

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2014, 06:10:17 PM »
Good luck on the project.  ;-T
There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2014, 06:11:48 PM »
If I had everything broken that far down, I'd go with the powder coat.

Good luck with the project, Joe.

You'd tear down the rear drive just for paint? Not me.. ;D "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.." He's already fixing some stuff that wasn't broke.  ~; :BEER:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
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I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline Unkept

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2014, 06:25:54 PM »
timing cover just looks like a leaking camtiming or oilpressure sensor. Hard to see in this neglected state

Tomorrow I'll be cleaning it up for a better pic, but I'm also getting some oil weeping on the other side of the engine, around the timing case.

It's also making a rattle, so I am inspecting the timing chain. I have a "new" tension-er I received from a forum member here too, which I may be using.  :)

You'd tear down the rear drive just for paint? Not me.. ;D "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.." He's already fixing some stuff that wasn't broke. ~; :BEER:

Key word, wasn't broke...  ;D

I'll probably paint it, but I don't have the right arrangement... hmmm, heater and a cardboard box? I have almost zero experience painting.

Thanks for the responses all.

-Joe
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 06:26:21 PM by Unkept »
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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2014, 06:30:14 PM »
Quote
I'll probably paint it, but I don't have the right arrangement... hmmm, heater and a cardboard box? I have almost zero experience painting.

Bring it down, too. I'll show you how to do this stuff. It's going to cost ya. I prefer an IPA.. ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

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I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline Unkept

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2014, 07:50:57 PM »
Bring it down, too. I'll show you how to do this stuff. It's going to cost ya. I prefer an IPA.. ;D

International Police Association?  ;)

Thanks Chuck, I'll need all the help I can get...

I will continue to tear into the bike, and find things to break.  ;D

Oh and Stormtruck, thanks for the offer! The Eldo or the Norge would be interesting... but I hope my bike will be good to go before it gets "warm" outside.  :D

Also, you calling this a restoration... only makes the task seem more daunting.  ::)
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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2014, 08:00:44 PM »
International Police Association?  ;)

Thanks Chuck, I'll need all the help I can get...

I will continue to tear into the bike, and find things to break.  ;D

Oh and Stormtruck, thanks for the offer! The Eldo or the Norge would be interesting... but I hope my bike will be good to go before it gets "warm" outside.  :D

Also, you calling this a restoration... only makes the task seem more daunting.  ::)

I know you noticed that the Eldo was in the list of photos of bikes you WEREN'T riding to CV.  :D ;D
If you wish to know what a man is, place in him authority.
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Offline Tom

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2014, 08:01:28 PM »
Any work I do is to keep the hulks on the road.
There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.

Offline Unkept

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2014, 08:02:59 PM »
I know you noticed that the Eldo was in the list of photos of bikes you WEREN'T riding to CV.  :D ;D

It was a nice try, right?

Any work I do is to keep the hulks on the road.

I'm making the same attempt.
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Offline Tobit

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2014, 08:08:11 PM »
Brake rotor bolts are typically installed with red loctite.  They'll come out like nice and easy if you use a small oxy-acetylene torch and focus the flame right into the well on the bolt for a few seconds.  Works on the cheeze-soft hex head bolts used on the LeMans IV anyway.  I destroyed several of them before trying the torch for about 5 seconds.

Tobit.

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Offline Unkept

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2014, 08:11:33 PM »
Brake rotor bolts are typically installed with red loctite.  They'll come out like nice and easy if you use a small oxy-acetylene torch and focus the flame right into the well on the bolt for a few seconds.  Works on the cheeze-soft hex head bolts used on the LeMans IV anyway.  I destroyed several of them before trying the torch for about 5 seconds.

Tobit.



Thanks Tobit! Chuck related the same sentiments, but I made the mistake of trying... thinking my heat gun would be good enough.  :-\

Learning the hard way, that's usually my way...
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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2014, 08:16:17 PM »
Good Deal!  We need more of these types of threads around here!

 ;-T
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Offline Blueboarhound

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2014, 10:18:31 PM »
Alrighty, now! A project! Woo hoo.. Should be a good thread.

Wow! A good thread indeed! Popcorn's in the oven.....
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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2014, 10:48:45 PM »
Admire your fortitude.. can i bring my Lemans over for a freshen up? I BTDT on the broken bolts etc..with many bikes, not my Lemans yet cause I don;t think it needs all that.. the timing gasket does weep a bit but the oil level never drops between changes.
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Offline Unkept

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair Thread
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2014, 07:06:39 PM »
Admire your fortitude.. can i bring my Lemans over for a freshen up? I BTDT on the broken bolts etc..with many bikes, not my Lemans yet cause I don;t think it needs all that.. the timing gasket does weep a bit but the oil level never drops between changes.

Tis' the case with my timing case as well...

Today's update:

To remove the swingarm, you have to first remove the two shiny jam nuts located on your porkchops... mmm jam and porkchops.

In case you need to know, it's a 30mm nut, and fortunately for me I have a socket left over from an axle removal on my wife's old Focus.


I showed some pics before of the exposed threads on the swingarm pivot bolts. Well, here are my measurements. Pretty close on each side, and honestly there is probably a better setup than this. I'm sure these are the factory setup as the rust tells me it's never been removed...




After the nuts are removed, and you took your measurements (to set it back up, and have it aligned correctly) removing the bolts is pretty easy. Grab your allen key and loosen!

When the bolt is about ready to go, use your free hand to raise the swingarm... it will then allow you to pull the bolt out from the porkchop.



Nasty! Those bolts both have scorch marks, and one even has a small strip of metal on it...  :o They also smelled terrible, almost like burnt transmission fluid. Any ideas on that?

Swingarm is free!


Gross...   :-[


Cleaned up, and photographed for the bearing information.


Well they don't look "too" bad after they were cleaned up, but when I stuck my finger in there to spin them around... but were notchy. One was at least quiet about it, but the other one let out small screechy noises.  :D

Guzzi charges over $150 for these, a piece!  :o So I'll be shopping around, and I'll report everything I end up buying on this thread when I'm done. Actually, these look to be "Made in the USA", so I take it back... maybe the swingarm was removed at some point. I doubt the original bearings were from the USA!  :D

I thought I'd dig in deeper now that the swingarm is out of there.


That u-joint cage had to go!


That job is a right PITA as the bolts around the cage are close to the frame bracing.

More grease on my bike than a burger.


Driveshaft free, that is one expensive piece of greasy Guzzi gear. Hopefully the u-joints are a-ok, anyone here have advice on testing this? They appears to be smooth, no grinding, and I can't feel slop by hand...



I grabbed this output shaft and tried to wiggle it, looking for play in it's bearing. I hope this is something which hardly ever fails... seems OK to me at the moment, just dirty like everything else!


That's it for now in the back end, I'll be pulling the shock soon... just have to take the bloody tank off first!

In other news, I have a Bi-Tubo steering damper... it's been set at 0 tension forever now, because it's a right POS!  :D If you compress the strut by hand, you can hear this thing grind on the inside... I may try to rebuild this, someone did on V11Lemans I believe... the replacement for the Bi-Tubo costs MORE than the Ohlins!  :o Problem is, the Ohlins won't fit with the V11 LeMans fairing's chin spoiler thingy. Maybe with mods? <shrug>


Here is the oil weep on the other side of the engine, seems to come from the gasket to me?


I have this blade type tensioner, Stucchi, I received FREE (Guzzi Content!!!) from Andrew Thomas Evans here on the forum. Thanks Andrew.  :) I hope it will work, I know it's not the stock style.


I will be pulling the front subframe next, not looking forward to this... I don't have the air tools I should need.  ;D

Look at that rust! I'm guessing this was from when MPH swapped the engine case, their tools may have scratched the frame paint off, due to the warranty repair of the flaking paint on the engine. Ironic?  ;) No scuff on MPH though,  don't get me wrong. Guzzi just cheaped out on paint for these bikes... made in...

2001! For those of you looking for V11 Sports, I'd skip to 2003 manufacture if I were you.  ;) The 2001-2002 bikes aren't a lost cause, I just think they are worth less due to the almost guaranteed issues you will have with them.


Not sure how the PO managed to scratch the paint on the tank in these odd places, this is the front of the tank, next to the dash.


I've also been chasing a 30amp fuse melting situation since I bought the bike, I think it's narrowed down to fuse box or battery ground... <shrug> Some of you may remember me changing a worn starter because of this issue. Back in Iowa!  :D


Here's my headlamp, with rusty chrome ring... if you have a V11 LeMans, check the ring by pulling the gasket between the fairing on the headlamp. It may be rusty! My guess is that it traps water in that gasket, maybe put some vaseline or something around the ring to prevent the corrosion? Any thoughts? The ring is no longer available from Guzzi, btw... They changed headlamps after the 02 LeMans.


In other news, I have a new battery going in. Odyssey PC545 going in, Ballistic Lithium coming out. Anyone want a 16 cell? It seems to "work" but I can't agree with it. Warm weather guys would be fine, but I had to modify the tray to fit this square shaped battery. PM me if you want one for a decent price...


I thought I'd share this as well. I bought this siphon hose years ago on Amazon, it has a brass end piece with a glass marble inside. Works wonders, as you simply shake the brass end around in your gas tank, and viola! You gasoline flows on it's own into your catch can.



Here is what keeps me going, I want to finish this project so I can put these beautiful Verlicchi handlebars on.



The Breva looks on in horror, at the transformation of her brother.


That's all I've got for now gang. Hope you are enjoying my pain and suffering.  :BEER: It is all fun though...
-Joe
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 07:11:36 PM by Unkept »
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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair, Maybe Restoration, Thread
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2014, 07:25:48 PM »
Great stuff, Joe.  ;-T Attaboy. I know for a fact how long it takes to document this stuff.
Quote
Driveshaft free, that is one expensive piece of greasy Guzzi gear. Hopefully the u-joints are a-ok, anyone here have advice on testing this? They appears to be smooth, no grinding, and I can't feel slop by hand...

I'd say you just tested them.  ;D The swing arm bearings could be oem. Guzzi sources some 'Merican stuff.. those bearings are cheap at your local bearing house. (Guzzi content)  ;)
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline Stormtruck2

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair, Maybe Restoration, Thread
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2014, 07:29:09 PM »
I am giving you a standing ovation for taking on this endeavour Kept! :bow  And a kudo's to ATE for the tensioner transfer. ;-T  I put one of those on the Ballabio and it makes a nice difference.  It got rid of a stumble betweeen 3-4,000 RPM she always had. Nice design and dead nuts easy to put in. Thank you for a great thread and write up! ;-T Carry on!
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Offline Unkept

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair, Maybe Restoration, Thread
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2014, 07:52:33 PM »
Thanks guys. I just hope I can get this thing back up and running before the warm weather truly hits... otherwise I'm stealing the Breva!  ;D

Chuck, I do think I can get those bearings cheaper, but to pull the old bearings... I may need your assistance. I've read horror stories on the LeMans board.  :o

Edit: Found the bearing on Amazon, may look at a bearing shop as well just in case...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007VG9APC/ref=biss_dp_t_asn $62.00 shipped.

Also, on MG Cycle!

http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=2838 $55.40, without shipping.

Bearing is an SKF 3303 A-2RS1TN9/MT33
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 08:14:13 PM by Unkept »
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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair, Maybe Restoration, Thread
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2014, 10:23:22 PM »
In Mn we have Gopher bearing, they'd probably be about $30-40. maybe you have a Hoosier bearing there?

your the MAN for doing that project!
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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair, Maybe Restoration, Thread
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2014, 05:59:30 AM »
Joe, Pit Posse, (now owned by Summit Racing), sells a wheel bearing removal tool. About 60 bucks IIRC. As long as you have a clear path from both ends, that tool will make getting those bearings out a piece of cake. You place a slotted insert into the bearing center, then drive a wedge into the slot. Then you hit the rod with the wedge on the other end and the bearing falls out with a couple of wacks.

It's really a good tool to have for such things.


http://pitposse.com/whbereset.html


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Offline Unkept

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair, Maybe Restoration, Thread
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2014, 06:21:15 AM »
In Mn we have Gopher bearing, they'd probably be about $30-40. maybe you have a Hoosier bearing there?

your the MAN for doing that project!

Thanks Brad,

I searched, and my closest bearing supplier has the bearing for $80+... at the least that was the closest I found in my quick Google search. I'll try again before I buy.  :)

Joe, Pit Posse, (now owned by Summit Racing), sells a wheel bearing removal tool. About 60 bucks IIRC. As long as you have a clear path from both ends, that tool will make getting those bearings out a piece of cake. You place a slotted insert into the bearing center, then drive a wedge into the slot. Then you hit the rod with the wedge on the other end and the bearing falls out with a couple of wacks.

It's really a good tool to have for such things.


http://pitposse.com/whbereset.html


John Henry

Hey John! I like the idea of this tool, but sadly the bearing is a blind bearing... because of the way the V11 swingarm is designed, there is no way at all to drive the bearing out other than with a blind bearing puller. Some guys on the V11 forum weld big washers and a nut to the bearing, and then pull it out... or something crazy like that!   ;D I could try my blind bearing puller, I bought it to remove the needle bearing on the rear drive.

Back to work... *sigh*
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 06:24:29 AM by Unkept »
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Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair, Maybe Restoration, Thread
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2014, 07:01:26 AM »
Is the set you have?
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair, Maybe Restoration, Thread
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2014, 07:07:09 AM »
 :+1 Chuck, that's the one! I think I bought it on your reccomendation.  :D

I think I should hit the swingarm with a torch for this. Problem is, that'll ruin the paint... oh well... it's already $*%($ed  ;)

... I do remember a "put your cookies and swingarm in the oven for 30 minutes" kind of trick too to remove the bearings. I don't think it's a good idea to put it into our cooking over though...  :o
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 07:11:07 AM by Unkept »
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Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair, Maybe Restoration, Thread
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2014, 07:20:05 AM »
:+1 Chuck, that's the one! I think I bought it on your reccomendation.  :D

I think I should hit the swingarm with a torch for this. Problem is, that'll ruin the paint... oh well... it's already $*%($ed  ;)

... I do remember a "put your cookies and swingarm in the oven for 30 minutes" kind of trick too to remove the bearings. I don't think it's a good idea to put it into our cooking over though...  :o

That puller ought to get it out without a problem. Bearings, by design, are only a light press fit.
Woo hee! Those are pricey bearings. Sealed on both sides.. I'm surprised one failed.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline Unkept

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Re: Unkept's V11 LeMans Repair, Maybe Restoration, Thread
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2014, 08:42:58 AM »
That puller ought to get it out without a problem. Bearings, by design, are only a light press fit.
Woo hee! Those are pricey bearings. Sealed on both sides.. I'm surprised one failed.

Yeah, they aren't cheap... no luck on anything less than MG Cycle's cost so far. Not that I don't like giving them my money... it's just they'll be getting my money in gaskets, and etc. in Guzzi exclusive parts.  ::)

-Joe
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