Question re: Suspension Improvements 2003 California EV

[youcanrunnaked]

I have been reading about improving the rear suspension of these bikes; I think the suspension is a bit soft at each end for my riding, weight, and taste. 

It seems like the consensus is either IKON or HAGON shocks, with Progressive being less favored.  Between the first two, how does one decide?

I am also wondering what the consensus is for the front end.  Is the stock unit a cartridge fork?  I am familiar with upgrading damper rod forks but have no idea what to do regarding the fork on my EV. 

Any advice is appreciated.

[Dean Rose]

Put the Hyperpro Front Progressive Fork Spring Kit on the front and Ikons on the rear then you will be HAPPY.


Dean

[youcanrunnaked]

Is the '03 EV a cartridge fork?  Is changing the front springs and/or fork oil the same for a cartridge fork as for a damper rod fork?  I have zero experience and almost as little understanding as to how these work.

[190 Octane]

Hyper pro springs and Hagon nitros here.

I can't help you on the adjustable forks.  On my non-adjustable forks I just pulled the cap, fished out the old spring and dropped the new one in.

[youcanrunnaked]

^^^^  I take it you are happy with your Hagon Nitros?  Looking at the difference in price between the regular Hagon and Nitro ones -- worth the extra money?

Hyperpro springs are progressive-rate springs, right?  Anybody want to comment on straight-rate springs (Race-Tech?) vs. progressive-rate for the EV?

[190 Octane]

I'm very happy with the nitros.  I think the the range in preload and dampening adjustments make them worth it over the lower priced Hagons.  I was really able to dial in a ride I'm happy with.  They also seem to be a heftier build than the lower priced ones.

Yes, the hyperpros are progressive and are fairly soft for the first inch or so of travel.  It  helps soak up the pot holes around here, but still firms up nicely around the twisties.

[rocketcaptain]

^^^^  I take it you are happy with your Hagon Nitros?  Looking at the difference in price between the regular Hagon and Nitro ones -- worth the extra money?

Hyperpro springs are progressive-rate springs, right?  Anybody want to comment on straight-rate springs (Race-Tech?) vs. progressive-rate for the EV?

I recognize that you're wanting to find a satisfactory level of improvement in relation to expense, but if you're willing to spend the dosh, you can't go wrong with Traxxion Dynamics AK-20 fork kits.  They'll send you the parts, or you can send your forks to them.  They charge $150 for installation, but will waive that fee for any bike that is a new application for them (their current application list shows no California models).  Turn around is quick, although it would make sense they're pretty busy this time of year.  They will even convert a non-adjustable fork to adjustable, as they did for my Rocket III.  And if you decide on Hagon, go with the Nitros.

[youcanrunnaked]

I don't think a replacement cartridge like AK-20's is in the budget. 


Since GuzziTech is no longer selling Hyperpro springs, where are you guys getting them from?

[Dean Rose]

I don't think a replacement cartridge like AK-20's is in the budget.  


Since GuzziTech is no longer selling Hyperpro springs, where are you guys getting them from?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BOV5PDG/ref=dra_a_rv_mr_ho_it_P1250_1000?tag=dradisplay-20


or

EPM performance import
77 Pension road, suite 16
Englishtown NJ  07726
Tel: 732-7869777
Fax: 732-7869777
info@epmperf.com
www.epmperf.com


Dean

[John Ulrich]

Put the Hyperpro Front Progressive Fork Spring Kit on the front and Ikons on the rear then you will be HAPPY.

 ;-T

[harrytief]

Todd at guzzitech supplied me with Gazi HyperX shocks and a Matris S fork cartridge for my 2008 calvin. The bike has blossomed from caterpillar to butterfly. Just WOW!
Harry

[Orange Guzzi]

Hyper pro springs and Hagon nitros here.

I can't help you on the adjustable forks.  On my non-adjustable forks I just pulled the cap, fished out the old spring and dropped the new one in.

Don't for get to support the front of the bike while performing this procedure. 

[190 Octane]

Don't for get to support the front of the bike while performing this procedure. 

I did mine one side at a time while on the center stand.  Of course taking all the weight off the front may have made it easier.

[youcanrunnaked]

Hyper pro springs and Hagon nitros here.

I can't help you on the adjustable forks.  On my non-adjustable forks I just pulled the cap, fished out the old spring and dropped the new one in.

^^^  I think the spring installation is the same for the EV's cartridge fork.  From what I can see, there is a spring that sits on top of the cartridge.  On the exploded diagram in the Cali. EV Parts Manual, it's #18 -- MG Part No. 03 52 66 00

Does anybody know what the outside diameter and length of that spring is?  I am looking at Race Tech straight-rate springs because I am not sold on the idea of progressive rate springs like Hyperpro and Hagon.  However, the '03 California EV is not listed on their web site, and when I called their tech was not familiar with what spring would be appropriate.  I thought there were some people who used Race Tech springs in these bikes, though, so maybe someone here knows the dimensions or better yet, the Race Tech part number for the correct spring.

[Dean Rose]

^^^  I think the spring installation is the same for the EV's cartridge fork.  From what I can see, there is a spring that sits on top of the cartridge.  On the exploded diagram in the Cali. EV Parts Manual, it's #18 -- MG Part No. 03 52 66 00

Does anybody know what the outside diameter and length of that spring is?  I am looking at Race Tech straight-rate springs because I am not sold on the idea of progressive rate springs like Hyperpro and Hagon.  However, the '03 California EV is not listed on their web site, and when I called their tech was not familiar with what spring would be appropriate.  I thought there were some people who used Race Tech springs in these bikes, though, so maybe someone here knows the dimensions or better yet, the Race Tech part number for the correct spring.

Find someone who will let you ride a bike with the progressive rate springs, they are great.

Dean

[youcanrunnaked]

^^^^  My concerns with progressive springs is brake dive and coil binding under hard braking and aggressive cornering.  I understand that the softer initial rate makes for a more comfortable ride over surface irregularities, but how much performance gets sacrificed for that?

I don't have to worry about frost heaves and pot holes in Florida, and when travelling I am looking to enjoy curvy roads but sometimes take the interstate to get there.  Would you still recommend the Hyperpro progressive springs over the Race Tech straight rate springs?

[Dean Rose]

They work great for me up here in the HILLS of SW Virginia. Our roads have a few turns in them.


Dean

[youcanrunnaked]

Here's what I have been lead to believe in the straight rate vs. progressive rate fork spring issue:

http://www.sonicsprings.com/catalog/straight_vs_prog_tech_article.php

I acknowledge there are other views, and I have not made up my mind which way I am going to go, so feedback and opinions from others is welcomed.  I only ask that you not tempt me with cartridge replacements like AK-20's and Matris Italia S kits -- they are not in the budget.

Still trying to find the stock fork spring specs -- length and outside diameter.  Does anyone know the stock spring rate, in kg/mm?

Does anyone know the make of the cartridge fork on the 2003 EV?  Is it Marzocchi?


Putting aside The Great Fork Spring Debate, which rear shocks will give me the best ride and handling at a reasonable price?  Ikon?  Hagon?  Gazi? Progressive? Any that I am overlooking?  (EDIT:  Yes, YSS.  Thanks, rocketcaptain.)  Which models from these manufacturers?  Again, please don't tempt me with tales about how your Penske twin shock set-up is superior, as those are priced beyond what I want to spend.

I am thinking $400 - $800 for the whole shebang.  (I think I can do the installation myself.)

[rocketcaptain]

I am thinking $400 - $800 for the whole shebang.  (I think I can do the installation myself.)

Agreed you can do it for 4 to 8 hundred bucks.  You could go $2000, and maybe only get 5% better performance.  Don't forget to consider the YSS shocks.
Suspension is a lot of Voodoo and subjective "see what you want to see".  Don't get too hung up on fretting your decisions, just make your choice, buy your ticket, bolt it on and take your time setting everything up correctly.

[cj750]

Very happy with YSS shocks on the rear of my Jackal.

[jetmechmarty]

Most of us the same.  We don't ride the same, we don't weigh the same, and we don't carry the same stuff. 

I'm no expert, but I see progressive springs as one size fits all.  I would buy correct straight rate springs for me and my riding style.  Connect with a place like Traxxion Dynamics or Race-Tech for the correct springs.  Source rear shocks from someone who will get you correct spring rates.  You'll have a better ride if the laden sag is equal, front and rear.

[gfritzmeier]

So Youcanrunnaked,  What kind of springs did you put in the forks?? I'm looking to get progressive springs in my bike and can't figure which ones to use. Doesn't seem that anyone knows which ones to use. I've even called Progressive and their sales dept didn't have an answer for me.

[youcanrunnaked]

So Youcanrunnaked,  What kind of springs did you put in the forks??

Sorry, but I back-burnered this project.  I suffered an injury last year that has kept me off of my bikes to this day.  Before that happened, though, I toyed with the suspension adjustments on my EV to the point where I was reasonably satisfied.  Maybe once I get back on the bike I will be motivated to re-visit improving the suspension; maybe not.

If you are stymied, I would contact Todd at GuzziTech.  He would probably want to sell you whatever parts he has, which may or may not be what you want.  However, if he does not sell what you want, maybe he would be kind enough give you the technical information for you to get what you do want. Another idea (which I was considering before my injury) is to simply disassemble your fork and measure what is inside.

[gfritzmeier]

Thanks for the reply Naked. I talked to Todd earlier today and didn't get the info I needed and while mowing my yard an hour ago I thought of the dissemble and measure. I do my best thinking while mowing or riding my Guzzi.
 Wish you a speedier recovery.
 

[balvenie]

So Youcanrunnaked,  What kind of springs did you put in the forks?? I'm looking to get progressive springs in my bike and can't figure which ones to use. Doesn't seem that anyone knows which ones to use. I've even called Progressive and their sales dept didn't have an answer for me.

gfritzmeier,
Don't want to overload you with information but what about talking to IKON? My bike used to wallow in bends over potholes and their solution trandformed it
Good Luck

ps for all I know, you might need to have a really specific complaint like mine to do any good

[gfritzmeier]

balvenie, Thanks I will do that. I didn't realize until yesterday that Ikon springs were progressive.