Author Topic: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest  (Read 225916 times)

Offline Mayor_of_BBQ

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #390 on: November 28, 2014, 01:22:31 PM »
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Offline mgfan

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #391 on: November 28, 2014, 01:35:47 PM »
O K just to drift a bit and bring back some civility, how does Piaggio expect to build a brand when they don't attend any shows? No presence in Seattle, no appearance in New York? Are we a secret cult?   :BEER:
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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #392 on: November 28, 2014, 03:02:03 PM »
Lots of threads get like this every year when it snows most people in, even happened on hunting forums years ago.  People stuck home, can't ride, or whatever they usually do to consume time and energy.



Well, there's a little something else going on too.

I think that too many people expect a wide-open forum like this to be some sort of "Mutual Admiration Society", or a "Chowder, Drum, Marching Band and Bugle Corps Society", or something.

If someone has an opinion that is at odds with Peace, Love, and Why Can't We All Live Together, that doesn't seem to go over well.   I'm not talking about nasty language, or personal attacks, or racism or any kind of -ism. I'm talking about a poster saying that they don't like the looks of a custom bike, or that a new model Guzzi looks fat and they won't be buying one, or not liking the slipshod way Moto Guzzi sells bikes, or opining that the quality of posted photos is low.   When someone expresses such an opinion, THEN the personal attacks start.

"You're stupid!" (although it usually turns out they're not, they just have a different opinion)
"You're lying!"  (although I'm not sure how can an "opinion" be a lie?)
"Why don't you go somewhere else?"
"Why are you dragging down the list?"
"Why are you peeing in our big bowl of Cheerios?"

Maybe if we'd discuss the subject at hand, and stay away from comments on the morals and intelligence of someone because their opinion on aesthetics, function, oil, brand of tires, or the synod that their computer belongs to, we'd do a bit better communicating.  AND maybe we could not go into a psychotic fit when we find someone with a differing opinion?

I've done bad on that in the past; I'll do my best to stop doing it.

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Offline pyoungbl

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #393 on: November 28, 2014, 03:28:11 PM »
"Valve clearance check:12,000 km (7,500 m)"

What does that cost?

I was staying away from the valve check cost part of the equation but, for me, it is a significant advantage Guzzi has over just about any other marque.  I did my own valve checks on the Ducks.  Mine were always 2 valve heads.  The checks were supposed to be done every 7500 miles or so.  That has changed to something like 15K miles on the newest bikes.  They are also 4 valve heads so there are lots of small parts to deal with in a very confined space.  All that translates into at least $1K for a major service on a Duck.  I can do the same checks on either of my Geese in less time than it took to get the Multi stripped down to the point where I could start to check clearances.  So far the Stelvio valves have not changed enough to notice but I check them anyway.  No shim kits, no valve cover gaskets, no timing belts to change, easy-peasy.

As for why Guzzi ain't at the show, I'm sure it has to do with the high cost of renting the space and being on the tour.  Even if you use local dealer personnel there is still a big nut for such a small manufacturer.

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #394 on: November 28, 2014, 04:43:49 PM »
That 7500 mile quote I posted was from one of the current Monsters taken from the Ducati website.
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #395 on: November 28, 2014, 05:01:45 PM »
Quote
On the ABS point, they are not all the same.  Take the R1150GS for instance, it will send you through an intersection with studder bumps, also on gravel and dirt, doesn't work.  Super Tenere and KTM, ABS (and TC) works very transparently on dirt or bumps or whatever!

I was out in California riding with some hooligans. 2 of us were stopped at a downhill dusty intersection waiting for the rest to catch up, when the guy on a Multistrada almost hit us.  :o He said the ABS let go..
I really don't want that kind of stuff.  ~;
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Offline Lannis

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #396 on: November 28, 2014, 05:23:54 PM »
I was staying away from the valve check cost part of the equation but, for me, it is a significant advantage Guzzi has over just about any other marque. 
Peter Y.

"Any other marque" is right.    Now that you've mentioned it, I can't think of a single marque that has valves that are easier to check than a Guzzi.   Even on the old Britbikes, you have to pull the gas tank to get to them.   And even compared to an old airhead Beemer, the cylinder angle is like it's MADE for your convenience.

The valve checking intervals on my old RD 400 and GT 750 were pretty generous, though, so they get the nod on valves ....  ;)

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Offline pyoungbl

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #397 on: November 28, 2014, 06:10:53 PM »
That 7500 mile quote I posted was from one of the current Monsters taken from the Ducati website.

Your note caused me to take a look at the Ducati website, always ready to learn something.  Now the 821 and 1200 Monsters show 30,000km valve check interval.  That's much more desirable than what I had to deal with on my 2006 Multi.  I guess they have gotten the message that maintenance costs really do affect sales.  Still, a major service will be very expensive.

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Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #398 on: November 28, 2014, 06:11:20 PM »
 can't think of a single marque that has valves that are easier to check than a Guzzi.  
HD comes to mind, and am I 'sposed to check them on my Buell?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 08:38:05 PM by fotoguzzi »
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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #399 on: November 28, 2014, 06:39:45 PM »
On the Duc, not sure what the new water cooled monsters have to do with the Scrambler which uses a slightly detuned air cooled 796 motor.

I believe the valve interval on the last 796 (Jay has one) is the same as on our 696, and is the aforementioned 7500 miles.

Costs will vary by dealer, but I've found one independent that has quoted $300 labor plus parts (in guessing another $200 give or take) for valves and belts.

So yes I'd expect the Duc to be a bit more expensive to service, but not horribly so.
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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #400 on: November 28, 2014, 06:41:00 PM »
Well...... 2 of the 3 of us are wise and intelligent  ;D
Just to be clear , not sure what the bone of contention is here , but the I find myself confused by about half of what happens on WG anyway , so carry on  :D

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Offline tiger_one

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #401 on: November 28, 2014, 06:59:51 PM »
I was out in California riding with some hooligans. 2 of us were stopped at a downhill dusty intersection waiting for the rest to catch up, when the guy on a Multistrada almost hit us.  :o He said the ABS let go..
I really don't want that kind of stuff.  ~;

That makes sense to me, my 2010 Multistrada 1200 only had TC as it was the base model, so can't speak on the ABS, but the TC was very abrupt as in would cut one cylinder felt like.  Maybe they refined them some since then, don't know.
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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #402 on: November 28, 2014, 07:45:13 PM »
Why don't you send them an email and ask?   I did that a couple years back asking about availability of then new 8v Norge.  I received a reply back within a couple days.

This afternoon, I did exactly that. Will post whatever response I receive.

redge

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #403 on: November 28, 2014, 08:21:52 PM »
Announcing a delivery date for the new bikes sounds like a great way to screw dealers who have the current bikes on the floor.  Guzzi is offering incentives on the V7 right now.

Moto Guzzi North America is offering incentives for the V7? Not on their web site. Where?

I think that the great way to screw Moto Guzzi's North American dealers is to announce significant model changes in Europe but fail to say when those changes will be available in North America.

And yes, from a resale perspective ABS and a six speed transmission and apparently better ergonomics for taller riders is significant. I think that these features will reduce the value of pre-2015 (Europe) V7s by $1500 to $2000. I think that it would be plain stupid to buy a new pre-V7 II in North America without a significant discount.

The resale issue is part of the reason why the Ducati Scrambler has to be on the radar of many people considering the V7. At the moment, at least, it looks like it may be a major product for Ducati (evidently intended to be Ducati's biggest introduction since Le Monstre) and a bike that is likely to hold a good deal of its value on resale for at least the next couple of years.

Apples and oranges?

No. The V7 and the Scrambler are both in the retro bike market. As Miguel Galluzzi said in a fairly recent interview, Moto Guzzzi owners are (stylistically) very conservative. So are the people who will be buying the Scrambler.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 08:40:13 PM by redge »

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #404 on: November 28, 2014, 08:38:02 PM »
If you're interested in resale value don't buy Guzzi. Too small a market in the US.

Then again one could equally argue not to buy new then.
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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #405 on: November 28, 2014, 08:50:31 PM »
O K just to drift a bit and bring back some civility, how does Piaggio expect to build a brand when they don't attend any shows? No presence in Seattle, no appearance in New York? Are we a secret cult?   :BEER:

Interesting question, one that I asked of Triumph for several years.  Yet, they seem to have grown very well despite not doing any US shows for years???
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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #406 on: November 28, 2014, 08:52:16 PM »
I was going to bring Triumph up as an example.

Personally I have thought that show was useless for more than a decade.
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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #407 on: November 28, 2014, 08:57:14 PM »
Interesting question, one that I asked of Triumph for several years.  Yet, they seem to have grown very well despite not doing any US shows for years???

I was going to bring Triumph up as an example.

Personally I have thought that show was useless for more than a decade.

Both Triumph as a manufacturer and the New York City Ducati/Triumph dealer will be at the New York motorcycle show December 12-14.

In addition, the NYC Ducati/Triumph dealer hopes to have certain new bikes, including the new Ducati Scrambler, in its shop the night before the show opens.

Neither Moto Guzzi nor Piaggio's New York City Vespa/Aprilia/Moto Guzzi dealer will be at the show, nor will there be any event during the show at the dealership.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 09:01:52 PM by redge »

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #408 on: November 28, 2014, 09:16:02 PM »
                                               Moto Guzzi
 
                      Established 1921 , going out of business since 1922
  

This pretty much explains the situation Redge  :D

  Dusty

Moto Guzzi hasn't been an independent company in almost 50 years. These days, it is a Piaggio marque. If you spend time in Italy, you will mostly know Piaggio as the company that makes the APE three wheel industrial and agricultural vehicles and as a significant maker of scooters.

In the context of the New York motorcycle show, I think that Piaggio is the only significant manufacturer of motorbikes (with the possible exception of some not very well-known Chinese makers) that will not be at the show, neither as a manufacturer nor via its principal New York City area retailers.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 09:24:15 PM by redge »

Offline jas67

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #409 on: November 28, 2014, 09:52:35 PM »
I believe the valve interval on the last 796 (Jay has one) is the same as on our 696, and is the aforementioned 7500 miles.

That is correct.   ;-T
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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #410 on: November 28, 2014, 10:15:45 PM »

Thought you were being serious until the term "significant manufacturer"   ;) :D Is Ural going to have a booth ? ;)

  Dusty

Hi Dusty,

Sorry, I assumed (apparently erroneously) that most people here would know the difference in scale between Piaggio and Ural.

If you do a search via Duck Duck Go (or even Google) you'll get up to speed pretty lickety split.

Don't know why two prolific posters on this site would say that Triumph isn't participating in the New York show when in fact it is.

I guess it was an attempt to explain why Moto Guzzi isn't. As in, you're a jerk for asking about Moto Guzzi when Triumph is also out.

Except that Triumph is in.

And so is Ducati.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 10:57:56 PM by redge »

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #411 on: November 28, 2014, 10:18:20 PM »
Hey Peter, heres an idea - the local dealers could get a few bright shirts that said "I rather sit on a Moto Guzzi!" or "I rather be looking at a Moto Guzzi!" and give them out to some of us guys going to the bike shows.  ~; Wear em under your coat to get in and be prepared to be tossed from some booths.  P:)

Would be funny to see a show promo video for a competing brand and a guy in the background sitting on a bike with the IWMG* shirt!


*I Want a Moto Guzzi.

 

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #412 on: November 28, 2014, 10:30:01 PM »
Hi Dusty,

Sorry, I assumed (apparently erroneously) that most people here would know the difference in scale between Piaggio and Ural.

If you do a search via Duck Duck Go (or even Google) you'll get up to speed pretty lickety split.



Oh , thought we were talking about MG , not the current owners of said company . Of course , mention the name Piaggio to the average American , pay close attention now , because you are gonna get a brief flicker of recognition , followed by , "hell , don't they make them fancy coffee pots"  ::) Sorry dude , if you want to best  someone in  general motorbike knowledge , I might not be the one to start with  :D

  Dusty

redge

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #413 on: November 28, 2014, 10:47:51 PM »
Oh , thought we were talking about MG , not the current owners of said company . Of course , mention the name Piaggio to the average American , pay close attention now , because you are gonna get a brief flicker of recognition , followed by , "hell , don't they make them fancy coffee pots"  ::) Sorry dude , if you want to best  someone in  general motorbike knowledge , I might not be the one to start with  :D

  Dusty

I haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

"Coffee pots"?

You know, I have a Piaggio bike in Italy, where I spend a good deal of time, that I bought in 2013 from a Piaggio dealer in Sicily who has been working with Piaggio bikes since 1976 and who maintains my bike.

I don't know where to begin with much of what's in this thread. It's so divorced from the reality of owning a Piaggio bike, at least in Italy, that I think that the prudent course is to just bow out.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 11:03:28 PM by redge »

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #414 on: November 28, 2014, 11:00:05 PM »
I haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

"Coffee pots"?

You know, I have a Piaggio bike in Italy, where I spend a good deal of time, that I bought from a Piaggio dealer in Sicily who has been working with Piaggio bikes since 1976 and who maintains my bike.

I don't know where to begin with much of what's in this thread. It's so divorced from the reality of owning a Piaggio bike, at least in Italy, that I think that the prudent course is to just bow out.

Seems to me the problem here is a lack of geographical knowledge , Italy is a medium sized country that sticks out into the Mediterranean Sea , America is a largish place some 4,200 miles to the West . O course there is Florida, which from space looks a bit like Italy , but is a whole lot flatter . My point is , Italy , and the motorcycle culture there isn't the same as America . Not many scooters here  ;D

  Dusty

redge

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #415 on: November 28, 2014, 11:11:25 PM »
Seems to me the problem here is a lack of geographical knowledge , Italy is a medium sized country that sticks out into the Mediterranean Sea , America is a largish place some 4,200 miles to the West . O course there is Florida, which from space looks a bit like Italy , but is a whole lot flatter . My point is , Italy , and the motorcycle culture there isn't the same as America . Not many scooters here  ;D

  Dusty

Huh?

Can't imagine how geography has anything to do with the discussion in this thread.

I say that as someone who spends part of the year in New York, part of it in Europe and part of it in Newfoundland.

Offline Demar

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #416 on: November 28, 2014, 11:15:49 PM »
I want a scooter. A 1950's/'60's Moto Guzzi Galletto. They're hard to find here.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 11:20:13 PM by Demar »
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redge

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #417 on: November 28, 2014, 11:21:13 PM »
I want a scooter. A 1950's/'60's Moto Guzzi Galletto. They're hard to find here.

Go to Sicily for a couple of weeks and look around. You'll find one, probably pretty cheap but also probably needing a lot of work.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 11:22:41 PM by redge »

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #418 on: November 29, 2014, 05:20:52 AM »
I still believe the US MC shows are relatively insignificant.

I guess it's nice that Triumph is participating again, but they didn't for quite a few years.

I believe their philosophy was they thought it better to put that marketing money into a mobile demo fleet that toured dealers around the country.

Perhaps that philosophy was part of why they, in only a decade or two, have far surpassed MG US (and worldwide) sales.

And perhaps the fact that they have at so much more significant US sales is why they can finally justify spending that kind of money on that show again.

Maybe if Guzzi ever reaches that level (5 figure US sales instead of 3-4 figure) they'll participate too.

I thought it was smarter that with the release of summer other recent models in the US (including the 1TB V7 and the Cali 1400) that they had an official demo program through their dealers. A step in the right direction towards growth and better marketing.

I just don't think it is fair to hold them to the marketing standards of companies with 10's to 100's of thousands more in US sales units.

That's like comparing the ad campaign of your favorite micro brewery to Budweiser.
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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #419 on: November 29, 2014, 07:06:25 AM »
I still believe the US MC shows are relatively insignificant.

I guess it's nice that Triumph is participating again, but they didn't for quite a few years.

I believe their philosophy was they thought it better to put that marketing money into a mobile demo fleet that toured dealers around the country.

Perhaps that philosophy was part of why they, in only a decade or two, have far surpassed MG US (and worldwide) sales.

And perhaps the fact that they have at so much more significant US sales is why they can finally justify spending that kind of money on that show again.

Maybe if Guzzi ever reaches that level (5 figure US sales instead of 3-4 figure) they'll participate too.

I thought it was smarter that with the release of summer other recent models in the US (including the 1TB V7 and the Cali 1400) that they had an official demo program through their dealers. A step in the right direction towards growth and better marketing.

I just don't think it is fair to hold them to the marketing standards of companies with 10's to 100's of thousands more in US sales units.

That's like comparing the ad campaign of your favorite micro brewery to Budweiser.

More like comparing a home brewer to Anheuser Busch.

 
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