Need help / guidance

[Rich M]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone...

It's been along time since I posted on the forum and glad to be back  ;-T

I'm having some problems with my 2003 California Titanium with 7500 miles on it, and need some assistance....

1.) Seems the the neutral light is intermittent and can not pin point the issue..

2.) Had the trickle charger hooked up for the past couple of months, turned the key on, turned the switch on and nothing..although I have power.. The fuel pump would engage when I turned the red start switch on..but now nothing at all..

Any guidance and or assistance would be greatly appreciated...

All the Best!
Rich

[Kent in Upstate NY]

Check your battery cables. Clean and tighten. Test your battery.

[Lannis]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone...

It's been along time since I posted on the forum and glad to be back  ;-T

I'm having some problems with my 2003 California Titanium with 7500 miles on it, and need some assistance....

1.) Seems the the neutral light is intermittent and can not pin point the issue..

2.) Had the trickle charger hooked up for the past couple of months, turned the key on, turned the switch on and nothing..although I have power.. The fuel pump would engage when I turned the red start switch on..but now nothing at all..

Any guidance and or assistance would be greatly appreciated...

All the Best!
Rich

#2 is most likely a bad battery connection.   Take both terminals off the battery, clean them up good, and reinstall.    You've had an oxide film form that will pass low current like a trickle charger or lights but won't pass current for the starter .....

Lannis

[Rich A]

1.) Seems the the neutral light is intermittent and can not pin point the issue..

Did you pull the neutral (grounding) switch from the gearbox? You might need to bend the tab.

Rich A

[Rich M]

Check your battery cables. Clean and tighten. Test your battery.

Thanks for the quick reply...

Just got back from the garage and everything seems fine..with the battery..

Any other thoughts?

Thanks again....

[Rich M]

#2 is most likely a bad battery connection.   Take both terminals off the battery, clean them up good, and reinstall.    You've had an oxide film form that will pass low current like a trickle charger or lights but won't pass current for the starter .....

Lannis

Thanks Lannis....

Did you pull the neutral (grounding) switch from the gearbox? You might need to bend the tab.

Rich A

Thanks Rich..

Interesting..and need to locate exactly where the location of that switch is..Could you please guide this newbie to its general location?

[fotoguzzi]

if you did not load test the battery you don't really know "everything seems fine".

I would never let a battery sit on trickle charge for months.

neutral switch is behind the starter.

[Rich M]

if you did not load test the battery you don't really know "everything seems fine".

I would never let a battery sit on trickle charge for months.

neutral switch is behind the starter.

Thanks...

Any particular reason that you would not leave a battery on trickle charge for an extended period of time? I have done so on other motorcycles for the past 30 years with no ill effect...

[Triple Jim]

It really depends on the specific charger and how it behaves long term.  I have a couple that won't hurt a battery if left on for months, but not all are like that.

[rocker59]

Any particular reason that you would not leave a battery on trickle charge for an extended period of time? I have done so on other motorcycles for the past 30 years with no ill effect...

Because a good battery doesn't need it ?

My bikes can sit for months, sometimes, and they always start right up...

[Wayne Orwig]

Did you pull the neutral (grounding) switch from the gearbox? You might need to bend the tab.

The 2003 is likely NOT of this style design.
Starting in 2003, most of the Tonti bikes got a new style of neutral switch. Is actually is fairly accurate, unlike the older style copper TAB that can get bent.
But, the new style switch can go bad easily if it get a little crud in it. It also has a push on spade terminal that can easily loosen up, unlike the old style which had the nut that you had to tighten down.
If the terminal is pressed on tight on the outside (it is located behind the starter). Then you may need to pull it out and clean the spring loaded plunger.


As for the electrical problem, load test the battery. Your charger may have cooked it dry. Particularly if it was a Battery Tender brand. They occasionally do that.

[Rich M]

The 2003 is likely NOT of this style design.
Starting in 2003, most of the Tonti bikes got a new style of neutral switch. Is actually is fairly accurate, unlike the older style copper TAB that can get bent.
But, the new style switch can go bad easily if it get a little crud in it. It also has a push on spade terminal that can easily loosen up, unlike the old style which had the nut that you had to tighten down.
If the terminal is pressed on tight on the outside (it is located behind the starter). Then you may need to pull it out and clean the spring loaded plunger.


As for the electrical problem, load test the battery. Your charger may have cooked it dry. Particularly if it was a Battery Tender brand. They occasionally do that.

Thanks for the details behind the switch and will check it once the snow stops in the Lower Hudson valley :)

It is indeed a Battery Tender brand that's connected to an Odyssey Dry cell..

[biking sailor]

Because a good battery doesn't need it ?

My bikes can sit for months, sometimes, and they always start right up...

I agree with this.  I average half a dozen bikes in the garage and some do not get used in the winter months (3 or 4 months storage).

What I have found works for me.  My older first year Thruxton and 1st gen KLRs have no LEDs or clock to put a slight drain on the battery over time.  The battery in them will keep it's charge for months without any ill effects. I will check them about once a month and put a 6 amp "automatic smart" charger on for an hour if any drops below 12.5 volts, just to top off.  The FI and clock, anti-theft stuff bikes, such as the little Breva and CBR, with a constant small battery drain get checked more often and if neglected, the batteries will show a discharge more frequently.  Again, I do a 6 amp charge until the batteries are topped up at least once a month on them.  If I wasn't so lazy, I would disconnect all the batteries on the bike that won't get used over the winter!  Note, I coat the batter terminals (inside and out) with Vaseline, as has been recommended by experienced guys, and rarely have corrosion issues with them. Also check my 2008 year model truck battery and do the same with it, as it sometimes sets for a month without be driven in the summer months!  Winter, the truck gets used more often because chance of ice or the hassle of gearing up causes it's use to be more regular.

The bikes that get used regularly all winter, I just ride.

[rocker59]

Yeah.  Most of my Guzzis haven't had clocks, anti-theft, etc. to drain batteries.  My Sport 1100 has sat six months at a time with no troubles starting.

I did have a Triumph Sprint Executive with a clock that would drain the battery in a few weeks, but that's been the only bike I've had that would do that.

[Chuck in Indiana]

It is indeed a Battery Tender brand that's connected to an Odyssey Dry cell..

From what I've read here, that is a particularly bad combination. My Odyssey (in California) sat without a tender for 10 months this year, and started the bike without issue. I have three of them and *never* leave them on a tender. As I understand it, leaving a battery tender hooked up can kill it. I know I killed a deep cycle battery with one.
Better load test that battery before saying it's good..

[Rich M]

From what I've read here, that is a particularly bad combination. My Odyssey (in California) sat without a tender for 10 months this year, and started the bike without issue. I have three of them and *never* leave them on a tender. As I understand it, leaving a battery tender hooked up can kill it. I know I killed a deep cycle battery with one.
Better load test that battery before saying it's good..

Very good information here...and Thanks...

Load tested as everyone recommended..ant indeed its shot....

Time to order another Odyssey PC925L...I've also read places that I could use a Odyssey PC680...Would anyone know if it's confirmed??

Going to start checking out the neutral switch issue today..and am glad that I installed a center stand...years ago.. Know that it's located behind the starter, somewhere, but being a newbie, could someone pinpoint the exact location for me please...

All the best!

[Bill Hagan]

Very good information here...and Thanks...

Load tested as everyone recommended..ant indeed its shot....

Time to order another Odyssey PC925L...I've also read places that I could use a Odyssey PC680...Would anyone know if it's confirmed??

Going to start checking out the neutral switch issue today..and am glad that I installed a center stand...years ago.. Know that it's located behind the starter, somewhere, but being a newbie, could someone pinpoint the exact location for me please...

All the best!

FWIW, I have one in my '98 HDM.  Quite fine.

More?  The search function says three pages address that battery.

See, e.g., http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=67163.0

Bill

[fotoguzzi]

yes you can use the 625.

as to the N switch location, I don't have a pic but it's hard to miss.. the only wire going into the transmission (spade connector), it's on left side near top of Tranny housing.. I think you can see it without pulling the starter off.

[boatdetective]

I had a no start issue just the other day- and i also noticed tha tthe neutral light was not on- even though i could roll the bike.  I clicked the shifter down half a notch- bike still free wheeled, but this time, the green light clicked "on".  Guess what- the bike started right up.  Give it a shot.

BTW, I bought an AGM battery down the street at Autozone. Easier than mailing one. Seems to be fine.

[lucydad]

All,

Interesting thread on batteries and bikes unstarted and tenders.  Little Goose will sit until after Christmas.  I bet it will start just fine after resting a month.
Moderate temperatures in the garage help as this is south Texas.  Living in Alaska I had to keep my Toyota truck on a tender winter months due to extremes of temperatures, etc.  Wyoming was even worse with VW sitting outside in extremes (-25F) resulting in frozen everything.  My old 84 Corvette for some reason would drain batteries, think it was the security system slow take?

Body is healing nicely, feeling a lot better, but I will be a good boy on the hernia recuperation and due what sawbones says. 

[Bill Hagan]

All,

Interesting thread on batteries and bikes unstarted and tenders.  Little Goose will sit until after Christmas.  I bet it will start just fine after resting a month.
Moderate temperatures in the garage help as this is south Texas.  Living in Alaska I had to keep my Toyota truck on a tender winter months due to extremes of temperatures, etc.  Wyoming was even worse with VW sitting outside in extremes (-25F) resulting in frozen everything.  My old 84 Corvette for some reason would drain batteries, think it was the security system slow take?

Body is healing nicely, feeling a lot better, but I will be a good boy on the hernia recuperation and due what sawbones says. 

Perhaps a trickle charger might help there, too.   ;D

OBTW, bored one day, after my second and awaiting my third such cutting, I happened to google around and found a website where people talked -- and whined even more -- about their impending or just completed hernia ops.

One guy said his wife told him that he was just a wuss and gave him that "you should try childbirth" mantra some people (spousal units, in particular) love to trot out.   :beat_horse

Well, I'll be darned, several women jumped in and said they thought their own hernia surgeries were WAY worse than childbirth.    :o

I showed that to Kathi who was, I have to admit, singularly unimpressed, but perhaps you'll have better luck with yours when the drugs run out.   ;)

Bill

[lucydad]

Bill said:



I showed that to Kathi who was, I have to admit, singularly unimpressed, but perhaps you'll have better luck with yours when the drugs run out

Women are tougher than I.  All three of mine are home right now.  My wife went thru ovarian cancer surgery years ago, and knows what a "core" type surgery feels like. So, she was remarkably patient with me and kind. Yep pain first couple days getting up/down was pretty knife-like.  I am one lucky guy all in all.  Daughters were similarly sympathetic when around, or not drinking, etc.   Youngest told me I should get a used Porsche though....collapsin g oil prices and hence stock values may negate that idea....

The tough part will be getting restless and impatient to ride the bike.  I decided to build some models starting with my Weird-Ohs "Davey" then a long stored Stuka aircraft. 

Going back to work Monday will be tough as I have two projects converging and spewing out data.  I will pace myself though.  Body is still a bit low energy.
Eldest wants one more blast of Tex Mex tonight before flying back to New Yarrrk Citttty....tomorrow .

[Rich M]

Hello everyone....

Had the chance to spend a few hours in the garage this afternoon trying to get the motorcycle running but to no avail...

Put a brand new Odyssey battery in after cleaning all the terminals with a wire brush, turned the ignition on, and absolutely nothing... Checked all the fuses, and all were good... The neutral switch should be here from Harpers tomorrow...

Funny thing though...After fiddling around with the directional controls back and fourth, heard the pump engage for a second our two..and then nothing at all.. Very strange  ???

Really do not know what to do after replacing the neutral switch tomorrow...and hope I did not fry anything while on trickle charge over the winter...

Any ideas and/or thoughts would be greatly appreciated  ;-T

[fotoguzzi]

kill switch? sidestand switch?

did you get ALL the wires connected to the battery?

[Vagrant]

first thing I do is replace all of the 5 prong relays with new ones on all new to me Guzzi's. but you can disconnect the battery, pull them all, spray everything with electrical contact cleaner, clean their contacts with a small wire brush and move them all over one notch. BUT!!! before you do make sure they are all 5 prong. you can't use a 4 where a 5 is needed. years ago Radio sold them cheap and a guy on this site did too. you will find they and the fuses are corroded.  You can usually steal one from your car or truck for test proposes if you know where to look.

[Rich M]

kill switch? sidestand switch?

did you get ALL the wires connected to the battery?

Side stand switch is OK..and all wires connected...Thanks!

As to the kill switch, have not checked that, nor have I ever used..I've always left in on and just turned the ignition on, then staterd... Any guidance on it???

[Rich M]

first thing I do is replace all of the 5 prong relays with new ones on all new to me Guzzi's. but you can disconnect the battery, pull them all, spray everything with electrical contact cleaner, clean their contacts with a small wire brush and move them all over one notch. BUT!!! before you do make sure they are all 5 prong. you can't use a 4 where a 5 is needed. years ago Radio sold them cheap and a guy on this site did too. you will find they and the fuses are corroded.  You can usually steal one from your car or truck for test proposes if you know where to look.

Being a newbie in the art of Moto Guzzi mechanics...Were exactly would I find the locations of these relays?

I've read several threads on the suspect OEM ones, and will replace them all..Can I purchase through any auto parts store, or would I need to order them elsewhere?? Much Thanks!

[fotoguzzi]

relays are in with the fuse block, under right side cover. any 5 pin automotive relay works.. order from a Guzzi guy, dpguzzi.com

I just meant the kill switch coulda been bumped so check that.. Ignition switch could be another spot to check but someone else can advise on that.

[Rich M]

^^^^^^^^^^^

Thank you kindly....

[Kiwi_Roy]

Here's a couple of simple tests to check out the battery & connections
Attach the negative lead of your Voltmeter to a good chassis connection like under a bolt head, you need a reliable connection because your hands will be busy.

Positive probe directly on the Positive post (not the bolts or lugs), it should read 12+ Volts. if not let us know.

A/  While holding the probe on turn key on press start, it should keep reading at least 10 Volts.
   If it drops down to zero
B/  Move the Positive lead to the Negative battery post, jab it into the metal to get a good connection, key On, press Start
It should keep reading ~zero, If it gives a reading you have a bad ground connection.

C/  If the Voltage in step A stayed at 12+ but nothing happened move the positive lead to the wire attached to the Positive post and try again

D/ Locate the fuses, jab the positive lead into each one (usually you can see a tiny bit of metal ecposed at the top) what do you see on each one,  which ones are alive with the key Off, which ones with the key On, write it down and get back.



Question to anyone
Which of Carl's schematics are close?

Roy