2015 Eldorado 1400 merged threadfest

[Chuck in Indiana]

Typo.

No. Say it ain't so.. A Guzzi spec that has nothing to do with reality??  ;D

[lucydad]

lmfao...somebody is gonna be surprised!

[Idontwantapickle]

New light weight unobtaitium materials and using light weight oils....   :BEER:

Did somebody say oil? Noooooooooooooo!!!!!!!
 :pop

[arveno]

Did somebody say oil? Noooooooooooooo!!!!!!!
 :pop

maybe they meant kgs and the wrote lbs ?
400 kg seems right .

[lucian]

Perhaps they just placed a bathroom scale under the side stand ?

[mtiberio]

the new eldo does have aluminum tubeless spoked wheels. that is a plus...

[Jerryd]

maybe they meant kgs and the wrote lbs ?
400 kg seems right .

As I mentioned earlier, the 2015 Brochure has the Eldorado at 692 lbs, the Touring model at 743 lbs

[canuguzzi]

In an effort to gain a competitive advantage, the tires are being filled with Helium.

[Jerryd]

Most of you have probably seen this, but if not, MG sent this out yesterday on the Eldorado and the catalog

http://www.motoguzzi-us.com/motorcycles/eldorado.html

 http://www.motoguzzi-us.com/public/upload/brochure/mg_range_my15.pdf

[leafman60]

Yeah, according to that, Guzzi is only importing the black version to the US for now.

At the recent Guzzi get-together here most folks really liked the new Eldo. We were not shown a red one but those familiar with it thought that was the most attractive version.

[Jerryd]

I saw the red, and it would  be my choice.

[Kev m]

Most of you have probably seen this, but if not, MG sent this out yesterday on the Eldorado and the catalog

http://www.motoguzzi-us.com/motorcycles/eldorado.html

 http://www.motoguzzi-us.com/public/upload/brochure/mg_range_my15.pdf

Thanks for posting that!

So I started digging through the specs.

Judging from the weight numbers they provide for the Touring and Custom, it looks like they are giving wet weights on the Calis (though I see from the footnote it's without fuel, still that's all fluids and battery, close enough for these specs).

If that's true WOW, I'm going to have to take a closer look at the Eldo and Audace.

The Eldo is listed with a weight of only 692#!  I know that sounds like a lot to some of you sport guys, but in a category of bike that most of the players are between 700-850# that's really not that bad... actually that's pretty impressive.

The Eldo is down to less than 100# difference between a Cal-Vin and it!

And the Audace HOLY CRAP, if that number is real - 637# puts it just 21# over a Cal-Vin, and probably less than 50# over my Sportster... only 75# more than my old B11, only 89# more than Griso 1200 8V!

Looking at another metric - hp/weight ratios (calculated with RWHP and Wet Weights as best as I can find) here are some comparisons to put that all in perspective:

Griso 8V (and my old Buell) 5.76 lbs/hp
Indian Scout                       6.01 lbs/hp
Griso 1100 (2V motor)        7.33 lbs/hp
Breva 1100 (FBF Dyno)       7.50 lbs/hp

Audace                             7.58 lbs/hp
Eldorado                           8.24 lbs/hp
Cali 1400C                         8.35 lbs/hp

Cali Black Eagle                  8.66 lbs/hp
My Sportster (Stage I)        8.86 lbs/hp

Cali 1400T                          8.96 lbs/hp

Victory Judge                     8.97 lbs/hp

Cal-Vin                              9.06 lbs/hp
Jackal                                9.08 lbs/hp

Indian Dark Horse              10.33 lbs/hp

Harley RK                         10.57 lbs/hp
Indian Classic                    10.68 lbs/hp

Harley Fat Bob                   10.70 lbs/hp

Indian Vintage                   11.13 lbs/hp
Indian Chieftain                 11.31 lbs/hp

[Bill Havins]

You got up early this morning, eh Kev?

[Kev m]

You got up early this morning, eh Kev?

LOL, well, Seamus gets up by 6:00 am no matter what... actually yesterday he woke me up a 4:00, but luckily I got him to go back to sleep... and so did I, for a bit. 

[rocker59]

The Eldo is listed with a weight of only 692#!  I know that sounds like a lot to some of you sport guys, but in a category of bike that most of the players are between 700-850# that's really not that bad... actually that's pretty impressive.

The Eldo is down to less than 100# difference between a Cal-Vin and it!

And the Audace HOLY CRAP, if that number is real - 637# puts it just 21# over a Cal-Vin, and probably less than 50# over my Sportster... only 75# more than my old B11, only 89# more than Griso 1200 8V!
 

692-637=55

Where in the world did they find 55-lbs to remove from the Eldo to lighten up the Audace ?

I'm sure the fenders are plastic, so not much savings there.  Not much weight in the fork shrouds, either.

And, I'd wager that the Eldo's 16-inch aluminum spoked wheels are lighter than the monster cast wheels of the Audace...

Hmmm...

[PeteS]

Too bad about the Red version. That would be my choice. Anyone know if the Suspension will be the same as the 1400 or Custom or different from either?

Pete

[rocker59]

Too bad about the Red version. That would be my choice. Anyone know if the Suspension will be the same as the 1400 or Custom or different from either?

Pete

Rear shocks on the Eldo are shrouded.  So, they appear different from both the Custom and Touring.

[tiger_one]

I posted a good review on the two bikes yesterday, I will find that link and post it here. 
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/moto-guzzi/2016-moto-guzzi-audace-first-ride-review.html

In that review, he did mention following the Eldorado and watching the rear fender flex when hitting bumps, so must be plastic.

The shocks on the Audace are longer than the shrouded ones on the Eldorado and feel better to the reviewer.

The exhaust on Audace is much shorter (should be lighter) and the wheels are cast, probably lighter than the spokes on the Eldorado.  But, the big 200mm rear tire (on Audace) might offset that.  I believe the front fender on Audace is carbon fibre.

Just for kicks on the weight/ HP, my bike:

507lbs and 150HP
3.38 lbs/ HP

[Kev m]

692-637=55

Where in the world did they find 55-lbs to remove from the Eldo to lighten up the Audace ?

I'm sure the fenders are plastic, so not much savings there.  Not much weight in the fork shrouds, either.

And, I'd wager that the Eldo's 16-inch aluminum spoked wheels are lighter than the monster cast wheels of the Audace...

Hmmm...

Well, let's go through the list of differences:


Fenders and tail-lights are different - are you sure the Eldo rear fender is plastic?
Different wheels and tires - again, are you sure which is heavier? Those cast wheels are "spoked"?
Different shocks
Different seats
Eldo has chrome rail behind the passenger section that Audace does not
Eldo has fork covers and what not
Eldo has a different headlight
Eldo has floorboards instead of pegs on the Audace
Is a chrome exhaust heavier than a black coated one?

It could add up...

[Kev m]

I posted a good review on the two bikes yesterday, I will find that link and post it here. 
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/moto-guzzi/2016-moto-guzzi-audace-first-ride-review.html

In that review, he did mention following the Eldorado and watching the rear fender flex when hitting bumps, so must be plastic.

The shocks on the Audace are longer than the shrouded ones on the Eldorado and feel better to the reviewer.

The exhaust on Audace is much shorter (should be lighter) and the wheels are cast, probably lighter than the spokes on the Eldorado.  But, the big 200mm rear tire (on Audace) might offset that.  I believe the front fender on Audace is carbon fibre.

Just for kicks on the weight/ HP, my bike:

507lbs and 150HP
3.38 lbs/ HP

Thanks for the additional info on the two.

And btw 

WOW, 507 wet and 150 hp AT THE REAR WHEEL????? FOR REAL?

[tiger_one]

From the review:

Every component on the Eldorado appears carefully crafted with a premium look and feel in mind � save one. Unfortunately, the plastic rear fender, which looks so sultry at a stop, betrays its lack of metal construction in the form of fender flex when riding over bumpy roads.

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/moto-guzzi/2016-moto-guzzi-eldorado-first-ride-review.html

P.S.  150HP, at the crank I'm sure, still a bunch!  Without the electronics you would be reading about many of these bikes in the ditch I'm sure!  Great fun tho.

[rocker59]

I'll bet the monster rear wheel on the Custom / Audace weighs 30-lbs!!!  (well, maybe not that much, but it's a chunk!)  I doubt they're forged, the rims are wide, and there are lots of thick spokes.

On the other hand, the Eldo's wheels have spun aluminum rims, and they're a smaller width and diameter...  Still not light, but my money says they're five to ten pounds lighter than the cast ones of the Custom/Audace...

[tiger_one]

Also the Audace has Euro 4 air injection, and that unit is an add to weight. 

The drag bars might be lighter than the Eldorado.  Simple headlight compared to Eldorado with two big heat sinks for the LEDs probably lighter also.  Audace has smaller seat.

I would think the biggest weight savings is in the shorter exhaust tho. 

[Kev m]

From the review:

Every component on the Eldorado appears carefully crafted with a premium look and feel in mind � save one. Unfortunately, the plastic rear fender, which looks so sultry at a stop, betrays its lack of metal construction in the form of fender flex when riding over bumpy roads.

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/moto-guzzi/2016-moto-guzzi-eldorado-first-ride-review.html

P.S.  150HP, at the crank I'm sure, still a bunch!  Without the electronics you would be reading about many of these bikes in the ditch I'm sure!  Great fun tho.

That report on the rear fender is a real disappointment. NO BS that fender was probably THE one aesthetic component that put me over the edge and put the Cali back into consideration for me. If it shakes like my V7 fender, that might be enough to disqualify it again.

But maybe someone will make an aluminum aftermarket one?

And what bike are we talking about a Triumph Tiger 1200 Explorer ???

MCN put a 2012 @ 589# wet, 114 rwhp - so 5.17 lbs/hp on my previous list just edging out the top spot from the Griso 8V and my old Buell.

MCN (and various sources) give me 11.32 seconds in the 1/4 mile vs. 11.51 for the Griso and 11.90 for my old Buell... all of which sounds about right.

Albeit slightly less impressive than that first cast off of only 3 #/hp.

EDIT - never mind - just saw your signature - you're talking the KTM - I don't think I have data on that... off to look for some.

[Kev m]

That was quick:

http://www.ridermagazine.com/road-tests/2014-ktm-1190-adventure-road-test.htm/

131 hp

552 wet

4.2 #/hp  - still pretty impressive.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/01/15/ktm-1190-adventure-road-test-review-photos-specifications/

10.68 1/4 mile .... phew... too fast for me. 

They ONLY  got 129 hp.

[bad Chad]

I'm curious, how does one see his rear fender flex when riding over bumpy roads?

Do you have to turn your head around has your passing over road irregularities and look backwards at the fender, or do you have a friend ride along with you?

[Kev m]

I'm curious, how does one see his rear fender flex when riding over bumpy roads?

Do you have to turn your head around has your passing over road irregularities and look backwards at the fender, or do you have a friend ride along with you?

I'm going to assume you are trying to make the statement not to care about it because you can't see it from the rider's perch, yes?

That's kinda the same argument for not caring if you somehow get a poo stain on the backside of your pants or maybe walk out of the head with toilet paper stuck to your butt... why should YOU CARE, if YOU CAN'T SEE IT?

Personally, I'd care about the Eldo rear fender, or the poo/TP... 

[rocker59]

I'm going to assume you are trying to make the statement not to care about it because you can't see it from the rider's perch, yes?

I think he's wondering how the tester noticed the fender flex while he was riding.

My guess is there were multiple bikes in the test, so the writer noticed the flex on another bike.

[Kev m]

I think he's wondering how the tester noticed the fender flex while he was riding.

My guess is there were multiple bikes in the test, so the writer noticed the flex on another bike.

There are often multiple bikes, testers, photographers etc.

I didn't think he was asking such an obvious question... 

[rocker59]

That report on the rear fender is a real disappointment. NO BS that fender was probably THE one aesthetic component that put me over the edge and put the Cali back into consideration for me. If it shakes like my V7 fender, that might be enough to disqualify it again.

But maybe someone will make an aluminum aftermarket one?
 

You'd think a "premium cruiser" would have metal fenders from the factory.  I know it's much cheaper to have Acerbis crank out plastic ones, but the market niche where this bike will live won't really accept the plastic.  It's a major sticking point with typical cruiser buyers, and one I'm surprised Galluzzi and his design team missed...