Era of Supercharged medium sized motorcycles coming!

[rocker59]

First off, measuring exact mileage cannot be done on the open road in a manner that allows comparison between vehicles.  Too many other variables that cannot be repeated.  Even driving them on the same road at the same time doesn't work due to other cars on the road disrupting air flow differently.  So, one person, measuring mpg in an accurate manner is not comparable to what I would get in the same car.  If you want to discuss in pure engineering terms I can, but, I guarantee that none of you have measured enough of the variables to make a meaningful comparison.

What you have done, in some cases, is measured how much you have paid for fuel, a close number for how much fuel you have pumped into your tank, and a close (some of the time) measure of mileage driven.  So, FOR THE CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH YOU DROVE, you have a close approximation of the mileage you got in that vehicle.  It does not mean that anyone else will match those numbers, and , they might not even be within 20% of your numbers.

As to turbo effects on gas mileage it is an arguement against driving styles.  If you take two cars, in identical conditions and drving speeds, the turbo should get better mileage.  BUT, people who own turbos don't drive them at the same speeds as their NA counterparts.  So, they will typically get less mileage.

Superchargers, unless some 'tricks' are employed, like disengaging the supercharger at less than full throttle, will typically not see a much increase.  Yes there will be a little, since combustion efficiency will be a little bit better, but, since the engine is still directly compressing the air charge, then there is not a savings on work thatyou get with a turbo.

LOL!  Me thinks you're overthinking this.  You must be an engineer.  "Accurate" fuel economy is a "Close-Enough" kind of deal.  "Approximate" fuel economy is easy to figure and is regularly repeatable.  In over 700 tanks of fuel in my 2002 Suburban, I'm am sure I can figure fuel economy within 1mpg on a repeatable basis, and that is close enough.

I do not need to know the fuel economy out to three places past the decimal point, but it is nice to know within one or two mpg what I'm getting.  My odometer has been checked with maps and GPS and is spot-on.  I always refuel with 25-26 gallons of fuel.  I check fuel economy on every tank and it's surprisingly repetitive.

I know what I'll get on cruise at 70mph.  I know what I'll get in commuting/combined.  I know what I'll get with the horse trailer.  And I know how the wind will affect those numbers.

I am quite sure that if I was alternating two vehicles, I would have a clear picture of both vehicles fuel economy in order to make a valid comparison.

[jas67]

The question of F150 Eco boost engine real live fuel mileage got me interested so I looked on several forums dedicated to these trucks....Form what I saw the average fuel mileage most reported by owners was 14-20 MPG. About the same as  larger N/A engines with similar performance.

This is what I've been reading as well.     V6 Ecoboost = 5.0L NA V8 in both performance and MPG.     I'll take the simpler NA motor, thank you very much.

I can see where it might be possible that the Turbo motor might be better for those who live in in the mountains.    I'd think the V6 Ecoboost might do better towing a load over a 9,000f t mountain pass than the NA V8, provided that the turbo can provide the added boost to make up for the thinner air.

No matter what,it takes a certain amount of fuel for a given power rating.

True fact.

[oldbike54]

Gotta agree with Rocker on this , one doesn't need be an engineer to do basic calculations and gather data accurately,
anymore than one need be a horticulturist to grow good tomatoes . Sheesh  ::) :D

  Dusty

[Rough Edge racing]

Gotta agree with Rocker on this , one doesn't need be an engineer to do basic calculations and gather data accurately,
anymore than one need be a horticulturist to grow good tomatoes . Sheesh  ::) :D

  Dusty

 Yup...My 4 wheel vehicles are old junkers with no  onboard calculators...My bikes don't have speedos so just take off the fuel cap and have a look inside...  ;D
 

[biking sailor]

My 1200 Sport computer calculated MPG was fairly accurate, however my Stelvio was optimistic by the same percentage that would equal the difference between imperial gallons and US gallons. Coincidence, I think not.   ;)  My new to me R1200GS is pretty spot on also, but that is only over one thousand miles.

And I fall into that OCD engineer category that over analyzes things regularly, especially when on trips where I am averaging fuel economy over thousands of miles.   ~;

[oldbike54]

Darren , have you tried measuring out exactly one gallon of gasoline and seeing how far your GS will travel before running out ? Seems to me that would satisfy some of our members  ;D

  Dusty

[rocker59]

Darren , have you tried measuring out exactly one gallon of gasoline and seeing how far your GS will travel before running out ? Seems to me that would satisfy some of our members  ;D

  Dusty

If you do that, be sure and run the bike out of gas before adding the certified 1 gallon to the tank.

Don't want any residual fuel in the lines or filter or whatever that would taint the results.

[biking sailor]

Let's see, design of experiment...

Measure out 231 cubic inches of pure 91 octane gasoline (as recommended by manufacturer) at a temperature of 20*C.  Run bike out of gas and pour in the measured one gallon of gas.  Shouldn't be a problem finding a flat, straight road here in central Oklahoma, and ride at 60 MPH in 5th gear with a GPS verified distance in statute miles until bike runs out of gas again.  I should probably do this on a 68* F day, with 40% humidity, and calm winds. That might be a problem in Oklahoma!

[kirby1923]

My 1969 international 3/4 ton 4 wheel drive 392 ci 4 barrel carb pick-up has 2 gas tanks, and that is because it  gets 8 MPG on a good day if I keep it under 65mph...uh with the Alaskan camper in the down position.

My credit is good.

mike

[oldbike54]

Let's see, design of experiment...

Measure out 231 cubic inches of pure 91 octane gasoline (as recommended by manufacturer) at a temperature of 20*C.  Run bike out of gas and pour in the measured one gallon of gas.  Shouldn't be a problem finding a flat, straight road here in central Oklahoma, and ride at 60 MPH in 5th gear with a GPS verified distance in statute miles until bike runs out of gas again.  I should probably do this on a 68* F day, with 40% humidity, and calm winds. That might be a problem in Oklahoma!

Wait for a day with a South West wind and ride from Seaba Station to Chandler and back repeatedly until you run out  ;D 

 Dusty
 

[charlie b]

You guys are better than me, or you don't get a lotof windy dyas.  I can usually estimate what I will get within 5mpg.  Beyond that it is wind speed and direction, my speed (mileage drops a lot when you go from 70mph to 80mph), what kind of traffic there is, the load and the road (altitude changes especially).  All combine to significantly alter my fuel mileage.

[biking sailor]

Actually rode Route 66 from my house to Seba and back today, Temp was low 40's.  Dash on the GS said I got 44.5 mpg.  Only had to pass 4 cars and generally kept the speed within 10 over, so I was riding quite fuel efficiently. 

[earemike]

I've always been a fan of supercharging petrol engines believing it massively reduces cyclical stress (vs turbo which increases it).

The reality is modern engines can take a lot of stress if designed properly (eg the old Audi 2L turbo) & I've never heard the bloke in the street discuss stresses in a motor unless they've thrown a rod or snapped a crank.

As for bikes, weight used to be an issue but if the marketers tell the young kids it's better and will only cost an extra 2 grand then that's where we're headed. I used to think 100hp was enough but there's always demand for something new, more power, less weight and now more tech.

I doubt I'll ever own a supercharged bike but never say never!

[Rough Edge racing]

 Supercharged? This is the engine I built for my grandson's "mud truck" . 454 Chevy with a GMC type Rootes supercharger.It's designed for midrange torque to power the heavy off road truck. it's only about 450-500 HP but over 600 ft lbs of torque at 4000 rpm.
  The biggest engine stresses are from high rpm so a forced induction engine can be quite reliable with reasonable cost parts if tuned for mid range power.

     

[rocker59]

My 1969 international 3/4 ton 4 wheel drive 392 ci 4 barrel carb pick-up has 2 gas tanks, and that is because it  gets 8 MPG on a good day if I keep it under 65mph...uh with the Alaskan camper in the down position.

My credit is good.

mike

 ;-T  I'd like to see that rig!

[Triple Jim]

Supercharged? This is the engine I built for my grandson's "mud truck" . 454 Chevy with a GMC type Rootes supercharger.

Wow, great setup.  I love to see a nice BBC, especially since smallblocks are so much more common these days.

[LowRyter]

My 1969 international 3/4 ton 4 wheel drive 392 ci 4 barrel carb pick-up has 2 gas tanks, and that is because it  gets 8 MPG on a good day if I keep it under 65mph...uh with the Alaskan camper in the down position.

My credit is good.

mike

Internationals were one of my favorites.  Solid.  Back when you wanted a vehicle to last.

One of my high school buddies drove his folks' Travelall.  What a great vehicle.  We hauled all kinds of garage band stuff with it.

[Xlratr]

Re: Supercharged 454

Now THAT is what I call an engine!!!
Will it fit in my Suzuki?? :-)



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[oldbike54]

Re: Supercharged 454

Now THAT is what I call an engine!!!
Will it fit in my Suzuki?? :-)



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The old hot rodders adage applies here . Gimme a welder  a cutting torch , and a big enough hammer   :D

  Dusty

[Stormtruck2]

Two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time.  But with a big enough BFH they can get really really close!!

[oldbike54]

Two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time.  But with a big enough BFH they can get really really close!!

Maybe not , but at Thanksgiving three can occupy the same space , it's called turduckin  ;D
 
  Dusty

[kirby1923]

Two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time.  But with a big enough BFH they can get really really close!!

I'm not so sure about that...

[Rough Edge racing]

Re: Supercharged 454

Now THAT is what I call an engine!!!
Will it fit in my Suzuki?? :-)

 Sure, but the engine is in my grandson's "Rambird", back half is 99 Firebird,front clip from a 2004 Dodge truck, home made frame with the usual stuff.
 here he is beating it up on a private course. It's geared pretty high for a mud truck but watch and hear the mega torque pop the 7500 pound lump out the mud when it bogs down.

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFLhaztnURM&feature=youtu.be

[Shorty]

OR do it the dangerous and rube goldberg way:

http://www.pipeburn.com/home/2014/10/16/65-harley-ironhead-hazan-motorworks.html#.VKGFFAO4IE

[charlie b]

If all he needs is torque,,my dodge has 800ftlb at 375hp, stock.

[Penderic]

Could a single cylinder motor use another larger diameter secondary cylinder as a "5 Stroke" engine but in a V configuration?

One spark plug. It would be a real fuel mizer!

[Xlratr]

Sure, but the engine is in my grandson's "Rambird", back half is 99 Firebird,front clip from a 2004 Dodge truck, home made frame with the usual stuff.
 here he is beating it up on a private course. It's geared pretty high for a mud truck but watch and hear the mega torque pop the 7500 pound lump out the mud when it bogs down.

Love it! But I wonder how long my gearbox would survive!!! :-O

Thanks for the link
:-)


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[Penderic]

Rumor that Suzuki will be bringing a 588cc twin turbocharged based on the prototype shown a year ago in Japan.

The Recursion is said to make 100hp at 8,000rpm with peak torque of 74ft.lb at 4,500rpm, overcoming the poor mid-range associated with early turbo systems.

It weighs 174kg and offers 50% better fuel economy than a sports 600, according to Suzuki.

Read more: http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/suzuki-recursion-concept-heading-for-production/26084.html#ixzz3NvvGPG2A

[Stormtruck2]

Maybe not , but at Thanksgiving three can occupy the same space , it's called turduckin  ;D
 
  Dusty

We had a turducken at Thanksgiving.  YUMMY!!  It was awesome.  :drool :food

[Stormtruck2]

Now if someone could just figure out TURDUCKENHAM my life would be complete  ;D Hmm Turduckenham , kinda sounds like a village in the midlands of England  ::) :D Excuse me sir , may I borrow some of your Turduckenham sauce  ;D
 
  Dusty

Christmas day I tried to give Lorraine her Christmas goose, she slapped me.  :-[ ;)