Vibration

[Rich A]

Wrong. The bike is broken, or you are trolling.

 :beat_horse

Agree

Rich A

[oldbike54]

You can lead a horse to water.... ;D

 Don't leave us hanging Chuckie  ;D I'm waiting on some kind of independent verification from Semper Guzzi . There may be something wrong with this bike .

  Dusty ;D

[Semper-guzzi]

We will figure out a time to get together.

Hey, just a question, but weren't there some Hydro motors in 2002? If so, can you tell by looking at Vin if it is one? I know there is the Valvole Idrauliche sticker, but incase that isn't there.

If it's a hydro, and the recall isn't done, could it possible be the issue?

My hydro aluminum was Hella smooth no matter the RPM.

[rocker59]

If it's a 2002 USA model, it's solid lifter.

[MotoGoosy]

Yes, it's a solid lifter.  Adjusting the tappets cut down the noise quite a bit.  They were way off.

[MotoGoosy]

The bike's not broken and I'm not trolling.  It's a Moto Guzzi, not a Suzuki.  Heavy vibration is a noted characteristic of Moto Guzzis.

[vibr8r]

The bike's not broken and I'm not trolling.  It's a Moto Guzzi, not a Suzuki.  Heavy vibration is a noted characteristic of Moto Guzzis.

I have a 2004 EV and it vibrates, but not as much as my Sportster did.  What year was your Harley made?

[Kev m]

The bike's not broken and I'm not trolling.  It's a Moto Guzzi, not a Suzuki.  Heavy vibration is a noted characteristic of Moto Guzzis.

I've ridden a number of Suzuki's (4cyl) that vibrated more. Granted it was more of a high pitched buzzy vibration, but still. The GS 550E I started out on was one. The press Bandit I spent a week on in CA and AZ many years later was another.

[Kev m]

I have a 2004 EV and it vibrates, but not as much as my Sportster did.  What year was your Harley made?

He said solidmount, I THINK it was 02 or 03 IIRC.

[oldbike54]

The bike's not broken and I'm not trolling.  It's a Moto Guzzi, not a Suzuki.  Heavy vibration is a noted characteristic of Moto Guzzis.

 Where in the world did you read or hear that . 90 degree V twins have good primary and secondary balance . The heaviest vibration occurs at low RPM because of the crankshaft induced rocking couple .

  Dusty

[youcanrunnaked]

Heavy vibration is a noted characteristic of Moto Guzzis.

Oh fer fuckssake!

I give up.  You obviously know better than everyone else on this subject.

 ::)

[Two Checks]

I will beblunt.
To the OP:if you are knowledgeable on Guzzis, tell us what is wrong with it.
By saying heavy vibration is a Guzzi trait you prove otherwise.

[oldbike54]

 This is a really strange thread . Apparently the OP has taken an extremely convoluted path , all  to tell us that all Moto Guzzis are vibratory beasts and must be short shifted .  Interesting  ::)

   Dusty

[vibr8r]

He said solidmount, I THINK it was 02 or 03 IIRC.

I didn't see where he stated the year, so I was playing a hunch that it might be a 2004 or newer.  I can see how he might be disappointed in a poor running Guzzi, especially if his 883 is rubber mounted   His other reference is a Kawasaki Mean Streak, which has a counter balancer and a lot of weight to dampen the vibes.

I'm still curious as to how a Kawasaki 540 got onto his list.   :D

[Kev m]

Vibr8r,

Don't know if I was guessing/assuming such a late model solidmount, but I knew he wasn't talking rubbermount from:

The hard-mounted 883 is infinitely smoother.

Got an 883 with 900 miles on it and I do a lot of putzing around town on it.

[vibr8r]

Vibr8r,

Don't know if I was guessing/assuming such a late model solidmount, but I knew he wasn't talking rubbermount from:

Okay, I found the Kawasaki 540, aka "Mule", also has a counter balancer, so that's 2 out of 3 in his stable that should be fairly smooth.

I had a 1994 Sportster 1200 and commuted on it regularly (like the OP, putzing around town).  As long as I kept the revs down below 4,000, the vibration was not intrusive.  The 883's supposedly vibrated even less.  On the highway without a windshield, let's just say that your post about your hands falling asleep brought back memories.   ;D

It's good that MotoGoosy has an extra bike to ride while he sorts out his EV.   

[kirby1923]

Where in the world did you read or hear that . 90 degree V twins have good primary and secondary balance . The heaviest vibration occurs at low RPM because of the crankshaft induced rocking couple .

  Dusty

Dusty,
I don't think its vibration caused by the 90 degree configuration, which as you point out is pretty good. Its the power pulses produced at 90 degree timing. At low RPM with more that a light throttle it can be a bit harsh for lack of a better word. Once the RPM comes up the pulses perceived as much closer together which smooth's things out. That happens at a lower RPM for the 45 degree of HD.
my .02

mike

[oldbike54]

Dusty,
I don't think its vibration caused by the 90 degree configuration, which as you point out is pretty good. Its the power pulses produced at 90 degree timing. At low RPM with more that a light throttle it can be a bit harsh for lack of a better word. Once the RPM comes up the pulses perceived as much closer together which smooth's things out. That happens at a lower RPM for the 45 degree of HD.
my .02

mike

 Mike , no doubt the 90 degree timing contributes , my reference is to the rocking couple caused by the offset crankpins . At TDC and BDC the crank is twisted about a bit . BMWs do the same thing , but neither engine is noted for for being vibratory . Good point about the 45 degree design , but there is also the fact that piston speed on a narrow angle V is never equal at any point , whereas with a 90 degree V the max velocities match up really well , and of course the 180 degree V keeps the piston speeds equal all of the time .


 Geez , did I word that clearly ? Feel free to correct any inconsistencies  ;)

  Dusty

[jacksonracingcomau]

The question is whether the Guzzi Big Block is a much lower-revving engine in the V11 California application as opposed to, say, the V11 LeMans application.  

THE ANSWER IS: NO!

Convert is an odd duck and the exception to the rule.  Citing it is only muddying the waters.

Maybe just the slightest difference between them, like chalk and cheese
Cali 100 torque from 2000 to 7000, actually more at 2500 than 4000 !!!!
From here http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=28424.0
very different opinion from owner of that bike,

 

Can't find V11 sheet on web or here, here is 1100Sport, close enough in spirit at least, good torque from 5000 tp 7000, poxy at 4500
http://www.gpperformance.co.uk/small_page.php?function=gallery_viewer&img_id=16
Sorry can't post it, have to click link

Note you are looking for torque not bhp,

[youcanrunnaked]

^^^^  Chalk and cheese?  Are we looking at the same graphs? 

Cal Vin (not the best comparator, but oh well):  Torque peaks at 5,400 rpm and hp climbs significantly after 4,000 rpm (with climbing hp and strong torque all the way to redline).  That is NOT a slow (or, low) revving engine.

Sport 1100:  (not even from the same era as the above bike, but again, oh well): Graph shows nearly identical torque (why three lines?) shifted slightly to the right (higher rpm by about 500).  Not much of a difference, and certainly no explanation for what the OP is trying to tell us.  (That's putting aside that if the 1100 Sport figures are from a carbed bike, it's not even close to a valid comparison.)

[56Pan]

Mike , no doubt the 90 degree timing contributes , my reference is to the rocking couple caused by the offset crankpins . At TDC and BDC the crank is twisted about a bit . BMWs do the same thing , but neither engine is noted for for being vibratory . Good point about the 45 degree design , but there is also the fact that piston speed on a narrow angle V is never equal at any point , whereas with a 90 degree V the max velocities match up really well , and of course the 180 degree V keeps the piston speeds equal all of the time .


 Geez , did I word that clearly ? Feel free to correct any inconsistencies  ;)

  Dusty

Little confused here.  I wasn't aware that any Moto Guzzi crankshaft had offset crankpins?  I thought all MG engines had the rod big ends in alignment on a common crankpin?

[MotoGoosy]

'99

[MotoGoosy]

Me too, and the Tupperware buzz was annoying.

[MotoGoosy]

According to my mechanic and my dealer, nothing is wrong with it.

[kirby1923]

Mike , no doubt the 90 degree timing contributes , my reference is to the rocking couple caused by the offset crankpins . At TDC and BDC the crank is twisted about a bit . BMWs do the same thing , but neither engine is noted for for being vibratory . Good point about the 45 degree design , but there is also the fact that piston speed on a narrow angle V is never equal at any point , whereas with a 90 degree V the max velocities match up really well , and of course the 180 degree V keeps the piston speeds equal all of the time .


 Geez , did I word that clearly ? Feel free to correct any inconsistencies  ;)

  Dusty

Ha!
The perceived "vibration" on the Guzzi isn't so much a vibration as a pulsing of the power strokes. The same thing happens on the Ducati, but both are quite smooth while cruising in the mid range of RPM as the pulses become closer together in time.
Actually the off set cylinders don't really cause any problems at LOW RPM and only a significant factor at HIGH RPM.

That's why BMW put a balance shaft system that turns at crankshaft speed on the R1200 to mitigate some of the rocking moment at HIGH rpm. (the other two orders are perfect on the 90 degree and 180 degree) You really can't tell much difference between the R1150 and R1200 until you get in the about 6,000 rpm range where its canx about 50% of the rocking.
Piston speeds only a factor in structural matters as well as ware.(in the configurations we are discussing)
Now the 45 degree is a uh....problem engineering wise, now we are talking out of balance. But the sounds are good and has sold a bunch of Hogs!!!!

mike  :-)

[oldbike54]

Little confused here.  I wasn't aware that any Moto Guzzi crankshaft had offset crankpins?  I thought all MG engines had the rod big ends in alignment on a common crankpin?

 Well , and right you are , didn't explain that very well . Failed to make the distinction between MG and BMW . Sorry . Still some rocking couple induced shaking at low RPMs due to the slightly uneven forces applied to the crank . Geez , wish I had the math to really understand this stuff  :D Anyway , my point was more to neither airheads or Guzzi engines being known as shakers , despite the fact that both can jump around at idle .
 
 Dusty

[rocker59]

Little confused here.  I wasn't aware that any Moto Guzzi crankshaft had offset crankpins?  I thought all MG engines had the rod big ends in alignment on a common crankpin?

I think his nomenclature was a bit off, but meant the offset of the rods.  Different from a fork and blade setup like an HD..

[oldbike54]

I think his nomenclature was a bit off, but meant the offset of the rods.  Different from a fork and blade setup like an HD..

 Yeah , that's it  ::) ;D

 Kirby , you are the engineer , but my understanding is that relative piston speed (between the pair) can have an effect on balance . In a 90 degree configuration , one piston will be at max acceleration while the other is at max piston speed , either traveling up or down , creating a natural balance factor , correct ? Yeah , we won't even talk about 45 degree designs , a Harley riding buddy of mine used to say they ran by magic  :o :D

  Dusty

[Gliderjohn]

I have staid out of this one do far but maybe he should have had a T-3 LAPD like my first Guzzi that did not have a tach to watch. This was my first Guzzi experience and without a tach I just ran it where it felt the best not by any numbers. That worked for me.
GliderJohn

[jacksonracingcomau]

^^^^  Chalk and cheese?  Are we looking at the same graphs? 

Cal Vin (not the best comparator, but oh well):  Torque peaks at 5,400 rpm and hp climbs significantly after 4,000 rpm (with climbing hp and strong torque all the way to redline).  That is NOT a slow (or, low) revving engine.

Find exact sheets if you can, but opinion varies, some seem to have joy from low revving Guzzi engines, esp Cali with high gearing to make use of it, others gear them down, c'est la vie. To each his own, not a bad thing to short shift and ride the torque, I do but don't care if anyone thrashes theirs through gears, not my concern at all, I'm not paying for fuel .

From the owner of that Cali sheet

Now that all the “teething problems” are solved (and forgotten! ;D ) and with already 5,000Km on the clock (in 7 weeks!  :) ) I took my California Vintage for a Dyno check at C.M.B. Verdeyen.

Taking into account that the typical loss of power between shaft and rear wheel is approximately 15% these figures are very close to the factory claimed values (slightly better).
It is amazing indeed! At 2,500rpm it already gives almost 80Nm!  8)
It looks like a Diesel engine!  ;)

And another owner

Torque is what moves the world and most motorcycles.  I love the low end torque and thanks I have a 07 CalVin and have wondered about the low end torque.  Thanks for the posting.    ;D