Wild in the streets?

[Triple Jim]

  From this occasional personal experience I've had with marijuana, I don't believe it should be legal in addition to the reasons I gave previously in this thread.

But to make/leave it illegal is saying the government should decide what people are allowed to do to themselves on their own time.  That's not a Libertarian point of view.  (no disrespect intended)

[geoff in almonte]

There was a blurb on the news the other nite about a firm in BC (go figure!) that was developing a roadside THC detector similar to a breathalizer for alcohol.

It's in 'clinical' trials as we type.

Maybe they're waiting to legalize it until they have a way of determining who is high while driving, etc?

G

[LowRyter]

Why don't you just take a break, milk a cow or whatever you do in your free time. God only knows, a joint is not going to solve your problem though a silent meditation might help.

 ;-T BC.


some folks sober up and others are just crazy the rest of their lives (WC Fields)

[Rough Edge racing]

Rough , normally I can follow your logic , not on this however  ???

  Dusty

 Let me clear it up. To me,marijuana is none of the govt's business. But they made it their business to make it illegal. So you can decriminalize it or make it legal.Decriminal is fine with me for personal growing and use...Legal leads many to think it's ok to get stoned anytime, all the time.... It's not ok and a person needs to use common sense that seems to be lacking so often.So...too many people will get stoned, accidents will happen, and the gov't will clamp down again on marijuana and take down something along with it. More liberty lost.... I feel sometimes it's best not to be true to my beliefs to not make things worse than they are...

[rodekyll]

It seems to me that the folks lacking in common sense are already using/abusing.  The flourishing black market bears that out.  I think the opposite will be true -- responsible folks who weren't using because there was no legal source will now be partaking.

[Triple Jim]

Legal leads many to think it's ok to get stoned anytime, all the time.... It's not ok and a person needs to use common sense that seems to be lacking so often.So...too many people will get stoned, accidents will happen...

I get your logic, and I can't say you're wrong.  I'm not at all convinced that long term usage goes up significantly, or even at all, after legalization though.

[rodekyll]

 ;-T BC.


some folks sober up and others are just crazy the rest of their lives (WC Fields)

In fairness, Lannis has proved a valuable point:  Endless repetition of a statement does not make it true.

[blackcat]

"So...too many people will get stoned, accidents will happen..."

Sure accidents will happen,  but from personal experience when I was smoking pot on a regular basis I was probably the safest driver on the road.

[Rough Edge racing]

OK Rough , but is there any evidence that legalizing something increases usage , or that making something illegal decreases usage . Just asking , really not trying to start a fight .

  Dusty

 To answer you and Jim...I have no evidence other than knowing human nature and some people have no self control....

[Triple Jim]

To answer you and Jim...I have no evidence other than knowing human nature and some people have no self control....

I didn't mean to put you on the spot, just asking.  There is a lot of data around, but it varies quite a bit, since each group publishing it has its own agenda.  Also, there's the effect of more reporting of use once it's not admitting to a crime to do so.  Did drinking go up significantly after the alcohol prohibition was lifted?  I have not researched that, but it might be informative.

Edit:  The Wikipidia article on prohibition says "Studies examining the rates of cirrhosis deaths as a proxy for alcohol consumption estimated a decrease in consumption of 10–20%."  So that would say the effect of illegality reducing consumption is real, but not terribly large.

[blackcat]

Cat , are you sure about that  ;) Yeah , I don't have much experience with that , was never much of a stoner , but driving under any intoxicant increases reaction time and impairs judgement . True , stoners do try to pay more attention , and don't become aggressive like someone who has been drinking .

  Dusty

Yeah, you're right. Anyway, that was 40+ years ago and everyone drives like a maniac nowadays so who knows how I would react to driving while stoned. Plus the pot is like 100 times more potent then it was back then.....

[Rough Edge racing]

I didn't mean to put you on the spot, just asking.  There is a lot of data around, but it varies quite a bit, since each group publishing it has its own agenda.  Also, there's the effect of more reporting of use once it's not admitting to a crime to do so.  Did drinking go up significantly after the alcohol prohibition was lifted?  I have not researched that, but it might be informative.

Edit:  The Wikipidia article on prohibition says "Studies examining the rates of cirrhosis deaths as a proxy for alcohol consumption estimated a decrease in consumption of 10–20%."  So that would say the effect of illegality reducing consumption is real, but not terribly large.

 No, not on the spot at all. Your facts are probably accurate. Marijuana isn't a gateway drug or turn a person into a red eye madman but it can be insidious when it's easy to get. Start getting stoned before work....then at lunch....... and then night. Everything seems ok but slowly your life becomes one of less constructive activities. I have seen this in friends. You have to use self control and from the number of  fat people and idiots with their cellphones, self control is in short supply.
 

[blackcat]

 Marijuana isn't a gateway drug or turn a person into a red eye madman but it can be insidious when it's easy to get.
 

I understand what you are saying but I think pot is pretty easy to get right now, and unless you're doing something completely stupid it is unlikely you will get busted.(famous last words....) The people who have that uncontrolled personality are already abusing something and for the rest of us who would like to try it when or if it became legal, it would be an occasional novelty.

Then again, I smoked some pot a couple of summers ago and it was a bad experience, like everything that I hated about pot 40 years ago, only worse due to the potency. In defense of pot I smoked too much thinking it was like the old days and I had to go to bed and I blame it on the crickets. There were probably a half dozen of them in the backyard where we were smoking, but by the time we finished there were like 20 million of them in my head.  :o :D

[Triple Jim]

...but know at least 5 places to obtain it easily at this moment .

That's pretty funny, but true.  You can often get a dealer to deliver.  Once it's legal you'll have to contend with store hours, proof of age, blue laws, etc..  :D

[LowRyter]

damn Crickets......  SHUT UP !!!!!!!!!!

 ~;

[Rough Edge racing]

 In New York 25 grams or less of weed for personal use and not consuming in public is a violation not a criminal offense. It's been this way for maybe 25 years. I like this law but it should be extended to cover a few ounces and discrete  cultivation for personal use. It's like having speed limits, if you had no limits the worst drivers would be driving fastest....
 

[Two Checks]

Why do people think legalizing pot will cause round the clock use? It's an intoxicant, just like alcohol. Is everyone who drinks drunk 24/7?
Making it legal doesnt mean it can't be regulated. Go to work drunk, yer fired.

[travelingbyguzzi]

 Twochecks, you just hit the sweet spot! Alcohol has been legal for me for the last 33 years and I have never had a beer before work. I don't see myself smoking before work either. My job is fairly dangerous and I need my wits about me.
I have always had more difficulty with alcohol then marijauna.
The key is moderation, but Amercan culture sneers at moderation. Everything has to be Ultra,Mega,Hypermost.
Bill Lovelady  is
Eskimo Spy

Dang, this thread has done made me thirsty

[rodekyll]

In Alaska the bill said mj will be regulated like alcohol.  Pee tests are to discover illegal drugs.  Alcohol in Alaska is not an illegal drug.  To me that means that pre-hire screens can only look for it if they also completely ban employees from drinking, or if the company is under federal rules.

That's not to say an employee can't be tested for mj, booze, or anything else if he's suspected of being impaired on the clock.  My agreement as an employer was that I'm not going to pre-test, and as long as you're on-time, focused, and productive, I don't care what you ingest on your own time.  BUT, if I think you're impaired on MY time I'll hand you a cup and watch you pee myself. 

[blackcat]

Why do people think legalizing pot will cause round the clock use? It's an intoxicant, just like alcohol. Is everyone who drinks drunk 24/7?
Making it legal doesnt mean it can't be regulated. Go to work drunk, yer fired.

exactly.

[canuck750]

Legalization of marijuana appears to be an extremely polarizing issue, left vs right, liberal vs conservative ad nausea.

Logic tells me that if this drug is legalized as is the case with alcohol, the safety of the public by control of quality, packaging and distribution would be improved. Moonshine alcohol is pretty much a non issue and organized crime is no longer in control of a contraband substance. Every article I have read refutes the old argument that marijuana is a gateway to stronger illicit opioids. Legalized sale of alcohol does not appear to lead to widespread alcoholism. Social conditions, primarily poverty is a marker for substance abuse, that and prescription abuse of pain killers.

There seems to be very poor arguments for continuing to criminalize marijuana use. Criminalizing marijuana plays into the get tough on crime mantra that is so popular with some populist politicians.  Far too many people are incarcerated for possession of marijuana, be it for personal use or trafficking. If governments legalized marijuana, controlled distribution and taxed the heck out of it the tax revenue perhaps could be used for social programs to address drug dependency, youth crime and education to give people an opportunity other than illicit drug culture.

Utopian dreaming?, perhaps, but the status quo on the war on drugs has lead to no where. Time to try another approach, this may be a start in the right direction.

[Demar]

So Rough and Jim , how do you guys feel about Broccoli ? ;D

  Dusty

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=dana+carvey+choppin+broccoli&FORM=VIRE1#view=detail&mid=A9E9DCE4B02B3BF48269A9E9DCE4B02B3BF48269

[rodekyll]

I haven't noticed a left/right - liberal/conserve split at the people level.  If that were true, solidly republican Alaska wouldn't have legalized.  There's the prejuvenile "If your side is for it then I'm against it -- facts don't matter" mindset, but that's more of a top level thing, and all successful moves to legalize have been grassroots efforts.  I see the split as more of who gains from keeping it illegal.  I made up a quick list of 'special interests' that naturally want to keep things the way they were.  They are (in no order other than the order I wrote them)

terrorists and their sympathizers
drug lords and their cartels
gangbangers
Big pharma
big booze
criminal lawyers
bail bondsmen
private prisons
Big lumber
Big cotton

I'm sure that given a few more minutes I could come up with more.  When I hear some of totally silly arguments against legalization, I wonder with which of these groups the speaker is affiliated/supports, since arguing for continued prohibition is advocating for all of the above.

[Demar]

"Drug use is increasing among people in their fifties. This is, at least in part, due to the aging of the baby boomers, whose rates of illicit drug use have historically been higher than those of previous cohorts."

Stats, but who believes statistics unless they are your statistics?:

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/nationwide-trends

Maybe this is true because the over 50 crowd is finally fed up with all the bulls**t.

[Demar]

"So...too many people will get stoned, accidents will happen..."

Sure accidents will happen,  but from personal experience when I was smoking pot on a regular basis I was probably the safest driver on the road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCXqbjo6cb0

[Triple Jim]

BUT, if I think you're impaired on MY time I'll hand you a cup and watch you pee myself. 

In my experience, the policy of firing for not performing the job competently works better.

I won't ever pee in a cup or anything similar for a job, as a matter of principal.  I was once told that the new contract required drug testing.  I wasn't using any drugs, but told my employer that I was not willing to pee in a cup for the contract.  He said that that wasn't a problem, that the contract required random testing, so he'd just make sure my name didn't randomly come up.

If everyone in the work force refused to take drug tests, the requirement would disappear.  But they'd have to perform competently in their jobs to keep them, and they'd have to be willing to lose their jobs for the greater good of personal freedom.

[zedXmick]

So when is the next Colorado,Washington, Alaska rally??   ;D

[F650RIDER]

yes

[rodekyll]

As an employer I can't fire someone just because.  It opens up a can of worms for lawsuits, and makes my unemployment insurance rates rise.  I have to fire for cause and with proof.  But my name is on everything that goes out the door.  I can't deliver sloppy goods and services, and I can't have sloppy employees out in the field.  So I have to reserve the right to pee test and take other measures with a problem employee if I think it's necessary to protect my business and my customers.

But I'm with you.  I won't take a drug test as a prerequisite for being hired.  I infer from that, that the employer assumes I'd lie if they just asked, and that starts us out mistrusting each other.  And they want to make ME pay for it?  I believe that an employment relationship should be based on mutual trust and respect.  If they want to ask me about drugs I'll be happy to provide copies of my prescriptions.  I've got nothing to hide.

I do a lot of 3rd-party tech support work in Alaska for lower-48 companies and I won't submit to criminal/domestic/credit/background/drug checks for their business, either.  It's insulting.  I've been up here doing the same thing for 25 years now and along with my professional credentials that ought to be all they need to know -- references on request.  If they persist, they can fly someone in for the hour's work from Texas.  I've got plenty of other things to do.

[rodekyll]

So when is the next Colorado,Washington, Alaska rally??   ;D

Is that a trick question?

4:20