Guzzi has Ewan, Indian has Mark --NGC

[arveno]

A "proper" Guzzi Ad and endorsement:

 :drool :drool :+1

[Penderic]

No Fair! Gotta be a Spokesperson! Gotta talk and walk the walk.  ;)

And not get paid for it!

Like this shmoe....


This guy maybe...


But not just another seductive model, well, unless she speaks and says something that sounds..... err, technical!  ;D

[oldbike54]

 No idea who the first guy is , and frankly I don't give a damn  :o ;D Now that young lady , well ...  :drool

  Dusty

 Cool Triumph and Square 4 though < hipster>  ;)

[Penderic]

The first guy was the "Fonz" a motorcycle riding bad nice guy in the TV series "Happy Days" idol of many youths!

He was scared of bikes in real life and could not ride them at all.

Also famous for being the subject of the iconic phrase "He jumped the shark!" (= its all downhill from now)  :D

The second guy was Clark Gable an actor somewhere....  ::)

[rocker59]

Some sarcasm went straight over someone else's head.

 :o

 ;D

[oldbike54]

Some sarcasm went straight over someone else's head.

 :o

 ;D

  :D :D :D :D :D

  Which is strange , said person usually catches everything  :o ;D I will say , never knew where that shark jumping thing came from .


   Dusty

[Penderic]

Huh? What? Doh!  :BEER:

How about the King?

 8)

[rocker59]

  I will say , never knew where that shark jumping thing came from .


   Dusty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

[Dobermann]

I am not American and I am not much in to American bikes history but what I know is that Indian was a fast bike with a good sport heritage. Now what I see is a Harley wanna be with dynamics of an VW mucrobus. I think that Polaris, having already Victory as a cruiser, should've made Indian a muscle bike(why not even super sport bike) with a modern V-Twin and stance able to compete with the modern Ducati Diavel, Yamaha V-Max etc. bikes and not a mix of Japanese cruiser-HD-looking clone.

[Kev m]

I am not American and I am not much in to American bikes history but what I know is that Indian was a fast bike with a good sport heritage. Now what I see is a Harley wanna be with dynamics of an VW mucrobus. I think that Polaris, having already Victory as a cruiser, should've made Indian a muscle bike(why not even super sport bike) with a modern V-Twin and stance able to compete with the modern Ducati Diavel, Yamaha V-Max etc. bikes and not a mix of Japanese cruiser-HD-looking clone.

You're right, you don't know much about American bikes. ;) ;D

The Diavel and V-Max sell very few units a year in the US. While Harley sells 50%+ of the street market.

As a matter of fact the Sportster, which the Scout is directly aimed at as a competitor sells 50-70k units annually.

That's a much smarter target from a business point of view.

And in that comparison the Scout lives up to the expected comparative reputation.

[youcanrunnaked]

I am not American and I am not much in to American bikes history but what I know is that Indian was a fast bike with a good sport heritage. Now what I see is a Harley wanna be with dynamics of an VW mucrobus. I think that Polaris, having already Victory as a cruiser, should've made Indian a muscle bike(why not even super sport bike) with a modern V-Twin and stance able to compete with the modern Ducati Diavel, Yamaha V-Max etc. bikes and not a mix of Japanese cruiser-HD-looking clone.

Spoke to a Victory rep at the Progressive MC Show when it came to Miami this year.  I asked about the future of the two brands, Victory and Indian, and what  Polaris will do, going forward, to distinguish them.  He chose his words very carefully, but basically, Victory will be the leading-edge, new-tech, experimental brand within the cruiser market, while Indian will be the "heritage" brand that will compete head-to-head with Harley-Davidson.  Not quite like the difference between Aprilia and Moto Guzzi within the Piaggio firmament, but similar.  He cited Polaris's recent (that week) acquisition of Brammo electric motorcycles as an example of where Victory may be headed.  

The rep admitted that the current Victory line-up is getting long-in-the-tooth, but said that now that Indian has been successfully established, Polaris has re-allocated a number of its engineers and a lot of their motorcycle budget back to Victory, so next up after the Scout will be new Victory product, and not just new paint schemes.  He hinted at all-new bikes. He specifically said that Polaris intends to keep the two brands as separate as possible.  While there might be some crossover tech, we should never see Victory bikes re-branded as Indians, or vice-versa.

Don't expect a Victory sport bike any time soon, though (despite my lobbying).  They just don't see a way for them to make any money in the sport bike market.  As for an Indian sport bike?  Forget about it.  I think it's as likely that we will see Polaris return Indian to its sporting roots as we are to see the return of board track racing.

[Lannis]

I am not American and I am not much in to American bikes history but what I know is that Indian was a fast bike with a good sport heritage.

The original Indians were no faster and had no more sport heritage than the Harley Davidsons of the day. 

As a matter of fact, Harley Davidson was ahead of Indian in every almost techno advantage that came along.    As Indian gasped into their final sleep in 1953, they were still selling a hand-shift sidevalve as their flagship bike.   

The really basic problem is that the "modern" Indian is trying to build on a 70-year-old "cachet" or "vibe" that almost no one alive has actually experienced.   It's just a name and a feathered headdress with zero relation to any past that any buyer has been a part of ....   

Lannis

[biking sailor]

YCRN,

I too would like to see Victory expand to be a full line of motorcycles, not just cruisers.  But I am always pulling for an American made brand that has a full line of bikes.  Seems like with Polaris' background in off road 4 wheelers and such, a dirt bike line would not be that much of a stretch.  Then add adventure/tourers, then a sport touring model...

While MotoGP and WSB may be out, a bit of sponsoring MX and Enduro racing on a pro level would not be that expensive for them, and could be an option.

[Kev m]

The really basic problem is that the "modern" Indian is trying to build on a 70-year-old "cachet" or "vibe" that almost no one alive has actually experienced.   It's just a name and a feathered headdress with zero relation to any past that any buyer has been a part of ....   

That's only a problem if the buyers they are trying to reach CARE.

True, they're going full court press on the tie-in to the "heritage" or "mystique" of the original brand. That's quite understandable, since such associations are often a romantic selling point for motorcycle buyers in this country (and a lot of other things too).

But all that matters is the people they reach give a crap about the tie-in.

So maybe the small percentage of riders who actually knew Indian motorcycles won't care about the new brand, but the vast majority of younger riders will be at least open to it, especially if they are already into that style of bike (classic-lined cruisers/tourers) and have a desire to buy American (especially if they're looking for an alternative to Harley).

[Lannis]

That's only a problem if the buyers they are trying to reach CARE.

True, they're going full court press on the tie-in to the "heritage" or "mystique" of the original brand. That's quite understandable, since such associations are often a romantic selling point for motorcycle buyers in this country (and a lot of other things too).

But all that matters is the people they reach give a crap about the tie-in.

So maybe the small percentage of riders who actually knew Indian motorcycles won't care about the new brand, but the vast majority of younger riders will be at least open to it, especially if they are already into that style of bike (classic-lined cruisers/tourers) and have a desire to buy American (especially if they're looking for an alternative to Harley).

I agree.   When I say "problem", it's really only a problem for ME.   Polaris will probably do fine financially if they can line up enough Hollywood fluff to sell the image to people.

Lannis

[youcanrunnaked]

YCRN,

I too would like to see Victory expand to be a full line of motorcycles, not just cruisers.  But I am always pulling for an American made brand that has a full line of bikes.  Seems like with Polaris' background in off road 4 wheelers and such, a dirt bike line would not be that much of a stretch.  Then add adventure/tourers, then a sport touring model...

While MotoGP and WSB may be out, a bit of sponsoring MX and Enduro racing on a pro level would not be that expensive for them, and could be an option.

I think off-road, enduro, adv, standards, etc. are also "off the table," at least for the foreseeable future.  Polaris clearly sees where the money is in the motorcycle market (at least, the North American market), and that's in the cruiser segment (or segments, if you further divide it into power cruisers, hevyweight cruisers, middleweight cruisers, tourers, baggers, etc.).  

I pointed out to the Polaris rep that companies such as BMW and KTM manage to turn a nice profit in NA without selling a single cruiser, and held up Triumph as an example of a company that makes good money in NA covering a lot of market segments besides cruisers, but he didn't seem very interested from a potential business perspective.  This basically told me that Polaris has no intention of catering to any of those other markets.

[rocker59]

If there was ever any doubt about Polaris/Indian's target, it's pretty well spelled out in the promo email I received this morning:

"Harley Davidson Owners get $750 Bonus".

"Now through the end of March, Harley Davidson owners receive $750 bonus!  Whether you trade or keep your beloved Harley, you still get the $750 incentive with the purchase of your new Indian Chief!  Act now before the incentive goes away!"

[oldbike54]

 Hmm , wonder if Polarindian would honor that on a Sprint ? :D

  Dusty

[rocker59]

Hmm , wonder if Polarindian would honor that on a Sprint ? :D

  Dusty

I think all you have to do is prove current ownership of any Harley Davidson.  If you purchase a new Chief, you'll get an additional $750 off the negotiated sales price of your new Chief.

Pretty aggressive tactic.  Wanting to get some more Chiefs on the road this Spring!

[oldbike54]

I think all you have to do is prove current ownership of any Harley Davidson.  If you purchase a new Chief, you'll get an additional $750 off the negotiated sales price of your new Chief.

Pretty aggressive tactic.  Wanting to get some more Chiefs on the road this Spring!

 Anyone want to buy a Sprint ?  ;D

  Dusty

[blackcat]

My local dealer which also sells BMW,Moto Guzzi,Motus ::) and UrAll is quite happy with their current sales of Indian. In fact the manager told me that they expect Indian to surpass all sales of their other brands. This dealer is also owned by the same guy who owns the Harley dealer across the street.

As a side note this same man road his Moto Guzzi Convert to Barber's last year and he purchased a very nice Lemans IV at the same show.

[LowRyter]

Anyone want to buy a Sprint ?  ;D

  Dusty

the Sprint is a keeper.  Cafe Racer wants it!

[oldbike54]

the Sprint is a keeper.  Cafe Racer wants it!

 Are you sure  ;D Actually , it was traded in years ago on a low mileage '84 R1000RT . The guy that owned Atlas MCs in Tulsa wanted it for his collection . Polarindian's deal isn't all that great , got $600.00 for it in 1993 trading for a bike costing $3k .

  Dusty

[LowRyter]

I think the Eye-Tielin Harleys are getting to be collectible.  Of course, I could never ride anything with a tight foot shift. 

[oldbike54]

I think the Eye-Tielin Harleys are getting to be collectible.  Of course, I could never ride anything with a tight foot shift. 

 Spaghetti Harlettes  ;D

  Dusty

[Penderic]

In case Guzzi needs a genuine hipster image for a future marketing campaign ......

I present ... The Guzzi Hipster Orginal: OMOBONO!  :D (spelt backwards its ah, OnoBomo?)


Omobono Tenni

[Lannis]

In case Guzzi needs a genuine hipster image for a future marketing campaign ......

I present ... The Guzzi Hipster Orginal: OMOBONO!  :D (spelt backwards its ah, OnoBomo?)


Omobono Tenni

Being an actual hardcore motorcycle racer is a clear disqualifying characteristic for a Hipster, in ANY decade.

So he's something else, but not a Hipster ....

Lannis

[oldbike54]

 Dunno Lannis , met Gary Nixon a couple of times , kind of a hipster , pretty fair MC racer .

  Dusty

[Lannis]

Dunno Lannis , met Gary Nixon a couple of times , kind of a hipster , pretty fair MC racer .

  Dusty

Well, I guess it's because of my understanding of "hipster", which includes a certain degree of fakery, posery, or trying-to-look-like-something-you're-not associated with it.    People can be weird, eccentric, avant-garde, or Spock-leaning-on-a-Riviera "cool" and not be a "hipster".   Plus the fact that someone who is trying to be a "hipster" can't be one .....

Lannis

[Kev m]

Google and Urban dictionary don't suggest there needs to be an element of trickery or posery:

Google:

hip·ster1

ˈhipstər/

noun

informal

a person who follows the latest trends and fashions, especially those regarded as being outside the cultural mainstream.

Urban Dictionary (too long to quote):

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hipster