Another question for the transmission Gurus, Vasco, John, etc

[NCAmother]

hey guys, so I buttoned up the transmission after replacing all case bearings, checking the drum shims (there was play, so I changed the original .7 to a 1mm)  However, shifting up and down is fine, except fourh gear.  I get a false neutral wether shifting up or down?   I a have adjusted the pawl one flat at a time while in 4th, but no change?  What sort of things should I be looking for?  Thanks,
Nate

[Vasco DG]

Have you got the detente plunger installed?

[NCAmother]

Yes, it is installed.  Some of the detents aren't quite as "snappy" as the others.  The false neutral is still at 4th, up or down, and sometimes it is hard to shift into 5th, and real neutral/1st.  Thanks Vasco
PS, I havented tighted the club shaft or output shaft nut as it's been apart several times.  I'm also testing without the "screw drive and speedometer in place"

[Vasco DG]

Ah, well that won't help. If the input and output shafts aren't tightened up then every action has an equal and opposite reaction, the shaft with the pinions on it will try and move away from the engagement dogs.

Pete

[NCAmother]

Thanks Pete, I'll do that tonight if I don't fall asleep after dinner!   :BEER:

[NCAmother]

buttoned up the input and output shaft nuts.  I used an air gun to tighten both.  It's really weird, 1st gear is good, neutral is good, 2nd gear is false neutral, and I can't get into3rd/4th or 5th.  I might send it to Zydeco Racing for them to take a look at.  I appreciate all your help Pete, it was still a good learning experience, and if I had another transmission go south I wouldn't hesitate to crack that case open and take a look myself.  Best,
Nate

[Wayne Orwig]

Any chance that you shimmed the drum too tight and it is simply binding?

[NCAmother]

Any chance that you shimmed the drum too tight and it is simply binding?

Hi Wayne, that's a very good question.  I went back to the original shim a few days ago, and had first gear not able to get into, a 4th gear was false neutral. When I add another small  I'm wondering if any of the bearings might not be within tolerance?  They've all been pressed in by me, so that could be an issue I suppose.

[pehayes]

It sounds like you have this transmission on the bench.  Are you trying to shift it while it is just sitting there?   The Guzzi transmission doesn't like to shift unless its internals are rotating substantially.  Have someone grab the input or output shaft and continuously rotate while you do the shifting action.  See if that gets you all five gears.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[NCAmother]

Thanks Patric, I'll try that.  It's on the bench, I'm spinning the clutch hub and clicking gears, I haven't put any pressure on the output shaft, except to feel if it's in gear or false neutral

[Vasco DG]

I reckon you've got one of the forks in the wrong way. Have you assembled it using the exploded parts diagram as a guide? If you have one of the forks is illustrated back to front.

I'll try and get some pix organized today.

Pete

[NCAmother]

Pete, that would be fantastic!   The 1st-2nd fork and 3rd-4th fork I may have gotten mixed.  I will post a picture of how it is assembled on the rod today

[Larry_77084]

did you check your end play with the case buttoned up and the cover screws torqued to 10nm?  That is the only way to truly check the end play.

[NCAmother]

did you check your end play with the case buttoned up and the cover screws torqued to 10nm?  That is the only way to truly check the end play.

Larry, I did, with the gasket but only hand tight. there was about .5mm of play.  The original rear washer measured .7mm.  I replaced with a 1.2, and then a 1mm shim on the rear face of the drum, and I was getting gears too hard to shift and false neutrals

[NCAmother]

This shows from top to bottom, the 5th gear selector fork, 1-2 fork, 3-4 fork


The button side of the selectors, notice 1-2 fork is different than 3-4 fork


Closer look at 1-2 and 3-4 selector differences


selector fork wear


selector fork wear(other side)


The original top drum shim (1mm) and washer (1.2mm) and original bottom shim (.7mm) The bottom shim is not cracked, just a piece of hair or fiber.

[Vasco DG]

The assembly on the rod looks OK.

OK. Do the forks slide easily along the length of the rod?

When trying to change gears are you turning the shafts?

Pete

[NCAmother]

The assembly on the rod looks OK.

OK. Do the forks slide easily along the length of the rod?

When trying to change gears are you turning the shafts?

Pete

Yes, the forks and rod move smoothly.  When I change gears, I am turning the clutch hub clockwise.  When I hear the "click" I'll grab the output shaft and notice the false neutrals.  As a note, I thought this transmission had never been gone thru, but I think it has an Eldorado endcase(the endcase has a frame mount, and the transmission body has a frame mount)  I might be wrong though

[kidneb]

Pete, that would be fantastic!   The 1st-2nd fork and 3rd-4th fork I may have gotten mixed.  I will post a picture of how it is assembled on the rod today

1st-2nd and 3rd-4th forks share the same parts nr. on later models. The fork you picture in the 1st-2nd position looks longer than the newer ones. Colliding forks ?
Try swap the position of the two?
Just a shot in the mist though. Good luck anyway.

[NCAmother]

I hope you're right KB,  this made me think, so I got out the calipers again, and there is a slight difference of <1mm between the center of the fork hole and the selector pin between the 1-2 and 3-4 selector forks

[kidneb]

Sorry-
I meant that the bored out part that slides on the rod looks longer,- not the fork length .

  edit//
                   or am I just misinterpreting what you`re writing
                 

[NCAmother]

Sorry-
I meant that the bored out part that slides on the rod looks longer,- not the fork length .

  edit//
                   or am I just misinterpreting what you`re writing
                 

Yes, the center point to the selection pin is shorter, as well as the bored out length is longer.
I'm getting first,neutral, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, but now 5th is a false neutral, up or down

[John Ulrich]

Those forks look worn.  When I shimmed my 4spd and the drum was not moving forward and aft anymore .....the missing metal on the forks prevented it from pushing the gears far enough.  Two new forks and all's well.

[NCAmother]

Those forks look worn.  When I shimmed my 4spd and the drum was not moving forward and aft anymore .....the missing metal on the forks prevented it from pushing the gears far enough.  Two new forks and all's well.

I'll have to check that out also, as they do look pretty worn

[Wayne Orwig]

selector fork wear(other side)

Those things are cut pretty badly. Is the drum shimmed that far out?

[Morizzi]

Unscrew the pawl adjusting bolt exactly one turn. If that doesn't help then swap the fatter shim to the other end of the shift drum and see what happens.

Pawl adjusting bolt may be in too far but trying to adjust it won't help if it doesn't like changing in both directions.

[John Ulrich]

Here's the photo's of my worn 4spd forks.